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Private Parking Solutions at Tesco Express & ESSO petrol station Acton
GIBZY
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 00:24
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Hello

Great to see the forum is still alive. A wonderful resource.

Please can anyone advise on appealing this parking charge notice.
The 14 day discount period has been missed as the keeper was away.
One can't see the vehicle reg in the photo but it may have visited this filling station when official works vehicles and metal fencing occupied the parking bays. It is apparently a very busy place with all the fuel bays full so there was nowhere else for the driver to park. Understandably they feel £100 is a bit much after putting plenty of money in the til and down the pump!

Do PPS have the authority to recover any unpaid sums from the keeper for charges incurred at this particular forecourt?

Hope there's someone out there who can help please?
Many thanks

This post has been edited by GIBZY: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 23:23
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post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 00:24
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GIBZY
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 01:06
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This post has been edited by GIBZY: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 15:50
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ostell
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 06:24
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Edit so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. Repost the notice with the dates uncovered, or tell usall the dates mentioned.

It looks as thought the wording foes not comply with that required by POFA section 9 (2) and therefore no keeper liability. There do not appear to be signs marking the alleged disabled bay that could be sen clearly in the dark and from the car.
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Jlc
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 06:53
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QUOTE (GIBZY @ Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 01:24) *
Do PPS have the authority to recover any unpaid sums from the keeper for charges incurred at this particular forecourt?

They are quite litigious so a court claim is a real possibility.

We won't know what their particular contractual status is at this location but you would have to assume they did.

The dates are scrubbed, I presume it arrived within 14 days?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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GIBZY
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 11:59
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Hi Ostell
Can't see driver identity where are you looking please?

Thanks again jlc
Dates are as follows incident 17/05/18 issued 23/5/18.
Is that a disabled marker under the car?

Can't see reg on the photo they use in the 'notice'
surely they should be providing clear evidence?

This post has been edited by GIBZY: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 06:50
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 12:05
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Where it says "I" a lot. Thats a bit of a clue!

They dont have to provide you anythin at all.
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GIBZY
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 15:57
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Hi nosferatu1001

Erm Don't know what you're on about ;-)
Does it make a difference that you can't really read the reg in the photo please?
If it was the vehicle in question how could one tell?

Cheers

PS: In what way does the wording not comply with POFA?
Thanks

This post has been edited by GIBZY: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 16:33
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ostell
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 16:01
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Here's POFA, Read section 9 (2) and see if it is all there AND in the correct format.

Do the signs say anything about disabled bays, blue badge etc? Are there signs close to the alleged bays so that they can be read.

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 16:03
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GIBZY
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 18:13
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Its 2 hours drive at least
I'll try and sort something with a mate...

Thanks for the POFA link
Much appreciated
But all looks in order except that one can't read the reg plate in the image the supply so whereas the vehicle they are writing about may have visited the site before there is no evidence I can see that that is the same vehicle in the picture sent other than that it appears the same make and model. But there are loads of them about so I'm told!

What's your view?
Thanks again

This post has been edited by GIBZY: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 18:24
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ostell
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 21:46
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This looks like the place.. This signage is not very clear and the disabled bay, even if there is one is not obvious. How can a driver possibly see those signs.

That sign at the fromt is ridiculous. How can you read that when entering, all you cn see is the white sign with the blue "P" on it.
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GIBZY
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 06:34
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Hi Ostell cool.gif

Thanks. I see what you mean.

So the arguments against this one are:-

1) The Notice - defective in that it states contradictory time scales for payment ie. "Within 28 days" as stated below 'Amount Due' in box to top left, and; "If within 29 days" as stated second line of last para on same page. Which is it?

2) The Signage - is not clear (as per POFA) on entering the location to the driver from within or without the vehicle vis-a-vis alleged disabled bay etc.

3) The Vehicle - the image supplied does not prove the registration of the parked vehicle so no keeper liability.

Anything else please let me know
Many thanks!



This post has been edited by GIBZY: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 07:09
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ostell
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 08:26
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Where is 9 (2) (e)? Where is period of parking 9 (2) (1)? Yes the 9 (2) (f) is incorrect as it states 29 days but from when? If it's from the date of the letter then that is reducing the time allowed to pay by up to 4 days.

POFA has noting to do with signage. Need to see the actual signs so that the conditions can be determined, not that the sign is apparent or readable by a driver entering the location. If you friend can bet photos of the signs it will help

Forget about not seeing the number, it was written down by whoever took the photo.

Get out of this thread and see what others have written in similar circumstances.


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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 10:14
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3) Already said, they dont have to have photographic evidence. Its only a "should".
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GIBZY
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 22:45
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What do folk make of these


















Thanks



This post has been edited by GIBZY: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 22:47
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GIBZY
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 23:02
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And no where near but in the same petrol station this

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GIBZY
post Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 22:19
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Hi all

Been refamiliarising myself via a couple of threads.
Just wanted to seek anyone's opinion on where I am and what I should do next
Seems I might be able to stop this thing through want of the wording in the PCN vis a vis POFA regards the time scale for payment. Is it 28 or 29 days, but is that really going to swing it?

I can really ill afford £100 for someone parking in a very poorly signed disabled bay.
But I'm told signage doesn't carry weight?
Even though there isn't much proof the vehicle was parked in a disabled bay going by the photo.

Shall I wait for the NTK before I write? Or should I pay up now - I missed the deadline I think!

Thanks very much all
clock.gif

This post has been edited by GIBZY: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 - 22:47
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 22 Jun 2018 - 07:25
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1) Who the *&%$ told you signage doesnt "carry weight"? SIGNAGE IS KEY - it is their ONLY means of conveying thesupposed contract, so if it is not clear, unambiguous AND actually OFFERS a contract, theyre stuffed!
2) Yes 28 or 29 days DOES make a difference. POFA is VERY clear on the timesclaes. Failing to meet the requirements of POFA means they dont get the benefit of POFA.

NOONE IS TELLING YOU TO PAY. NOONE.

Wait for the NtK, OR appeal at day 25/26, ONLINE or EMAIL not post unless thats yur only choice, stating that AS KEEPER you appeal. NO "I" "she" "he" drove, just THE DRIVEr was not made sufficiently aware of the bay due to poor markings, and the signage was additionally inadequate to offer parking in a disabled bay. You require the charge is cancelled

They may forget to then send a NtK out. If one is not served between 29 and 56 days you cannot fail at POPLA on a "no keeper liabilitY" issue - so you will EXPECT to be rejected and you will start to write your POPLA appeal.

Show us your papeal first.
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GIBZY
post Fri, 22 Jun 2018 - 08:00
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Thank you cool.gif

Am also writing to Tesco now to enquire if PPS have their authority.

Ps: when nosferatu1001 says "appeal at 25/26"" and... "they may forget to send out a NTK" I'm confused.

Should an email be sent to PPS now that the 28 or 29 days of their PCN has elapsed?
Thanks


Have a great day!

This post has been edited by GIBZY: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 - 08:28
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GIBZY
post Fri, 22 Jun 2018 - 13:01
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Apologies for being a bit slow.

So what the Keeper should do now is contact PPS via email/web stating an intention to appeal (because the driver was not made sufficiently aware of the bay due to poor markings, and the signage was additionally inadequate to offer parking in a disabled bay) and requiring the charge is cancelled?

It's now 29+ days since the PCN was issued.
Thanks everyone
Guidance very much appreciated.

This post has been edited by GIBZY: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 - 13:07
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GIBZY
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 14:57
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Hello
This arrived. I guess it's a NTK?
Details to back as above back of original PCN
Should I put together an appeal and draft it here?
Thank you all very much
biggrin.gif

Ps: I contacted Tesco for confirmation that PPS worked for them. So even though PPS use the Tesco logo on their signage Tesco tell me they only work with Horizon and Highview!



This post has been edited by GIBZY: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 15:03
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