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PCN and tow in Kelvinhaugh St Glasgow, Threads merged
Kking
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 18:15
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Hi,

I was wondering if anyone here had some advice about a PCN and tow that I'd like to appeal.

As my residence parking permit was going to end on the 5th June 2018 and I’m stilling waiting for my new parking permit to be delivered and I live in Finnieston so I parked in Kelvinhaugh street ( behind where I live) in Glasgow west end on the 4th June 2018 as I was going for a holiday for 2 days and My friends and I used to park in this place for free for a long time because it doesn’t have any marking lines or signs. I came back from my holiday on the 6th June night and I didn’t find my car so I called the police and I’ve been told that it’s been towed, the weird thing is that it has been parked at the same place for 2 days but it was fined and towed only yesterday the 6th June 2018 ( god knows why). I went today and I had to pay £180 to release my car which they said if was parked in restricted road during the prescribed hours which I can’t see at all. I have attached all the photos so can you please help me appeal this, also To write the wording as I believe I shouldn’t been fined and my car removed.

Thanks a lot
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post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 18:15
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cp8759
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 18:32
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Council pics:








Unless you somehow got to the location without passing any "Restricted Zone" sign, it looks banged to rights on the contravention.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Kking
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 19:11
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Hi,

I was wondering if anyone here had some advice about a PCN and tow that I'd like to appeal.

As my residence parking permit was going to end on the 5th June 2018 and I’m stilling waiting for my new parking permit to be delivered and I live in Finnieston so I parked in Kelvinhaugh street ( behind where I live) in Glasgow west end on the 4th June 2018 as I was going for a holiday for 2 days and My friends and I used to park in this place for free for a long time because it doesn’t have any marking lines or signs. I came back from my holiday on the 6th June night and I didn’t find my car so I called the police and I’ve been told that it’s been towed, the weird thing is that it has been parked at the same place for 2 days but it was fined and towed only yesterday the 6th June 2018 ( god knows why). I went today and I had to pay £180 to release my car which they said if was parked in restricted road during the prescribed hours which I can’t see at all. I have attached all the photos so can you please help me appeal this, also To write the wording as I believe I shouldn’t been fined and my car removed.

Thanks a lot
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image


Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image

 
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cp8759
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 19:28
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Please don't make multiple posts for the same PCN. A mod will merge.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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DJ Lexy
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 20:08
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You parked literally ten feet away from this sign.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 21:25
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Providing you do not miss deadlines, you have paid all there is to pay so lets see if we can make an appeal, you might get some money back.

What is the time stamp on the first two photos. and/or what time was the car towed?
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Kking
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 03:12
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Thanks PASTMYBEST for the motivation and help.

Time was 11:31am, I’m not too sure when it was towed but I’ve been told about 10 mins after that. Any help please?

This post has been edited by Kking: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 03:35
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Kking
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 03:30
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@ cp8759. Thanks but I used to park in this place for ages and I didn’t have any fines.
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Incandescent
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 07:30
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The only appeal argument that comes to mind is "legitimate expectation". That sign looks very new, so I suspect the OP, (assuming he is a resident), has missed a council letter about the new zone coming into operation. It is that or the OP just ignored the signs and carried on parking.
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 07:33
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OP-----you parked in the Yorkhill area which is subject to its own residents permits:-

https://glasgowgis.maps.arcgis.com/apps/web...61698125682b78a

Clicking on where you parked shows:-

City Parking Zones
Type Restricted Parking Zone
Times Mon-Fri 8am-6pm
Zone Name Yorkhill
Tarriff 20p for 30 minutes then 20p per 10 minutes
Maximum Stay 3 hours
Resident Parking Permit £50 annually or £15 quarterly
Business Parking Permit £700 annually
Resident's Visitor Parking Permit £2 for a set 6 hour period (8am - 2pm, 12 noon - 6pm, 4pm - 10am)

I would contend that since you displayed a permit for another zone (regardless of the Restricted Parking Zone sign) you have been given the wrong contravention it should be one of:-

Code 12 ---Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone without either clearly displaying a valid permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place, or without payment of the parking charge; or

Code 19 ---Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone either displaying an invalid permit or voucher or pay and display ticket, or after the expiry of paid for time; or

Code 16 ---Parked in a permit space or zone without clearly displaying a valid permit.

You have been given a Code 01 which is probably worthy of an instant tow. However the fact that you displayed a permit suggests to me that the contravention was wrong and therefore the tow was disproportionate.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 07:37
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cp8759
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 11:34
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For once I have to completely disagree with Mad Mick V, Kking parked in a restricted zone outside of a marked bay so 01 is the correct contravention code, as the situation is analogous to parking in a CPZ on a yellow line.

Put it another way, the permit is irrelevant because there is no permit that would allow Kking to park where he did.

Personally I would concede the contravention but argue that the tow was disproportionate.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 12:31
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There are markings on the road which look like a bay to me before you get to the disabled bay. Certainly markings in this photo:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8650656,-...3312!8i6656

But degraded in this photo:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8650606,-...3312!8i6656.

Is it a bay or not?


Mick
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cp8759
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 12:41
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 13:31) *
Is it a bay or not?

There were vestiges of a bay when the google car drove by, but the council pics (see post 2) show that at the time of the alleged contravention, there was no evidence whatsoever of a bay.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 15:33
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An argument that a release fee if not legal it should be a removal fee, and that it is a breach of human rights to demand a payment to engage in the appeal procedure

The second part IMO has more merit.

Bogsy makes this argument very well but it has never had any success, IMO in Scotland it would do naught but p off the adjudicator
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Kking
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 17:27
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 08:30) *
The only appeal argument that comes to mind is "legitimate expectation". That sign looks very new, so I suspect the OP, (assuming he is a resident), has missed a council letter about the new zone coming into operation. It is that or the OP just ignored the signs and carried on parking.


Yes the signs are very new and I didn’t even see these signs when I parked over there so I’m not sure if it was there or they put it the day after I parked cox it was parked for 3 days. I have attached a new photos.
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Kking
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 17:47
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 13:31) *
There are markings on the road which look like a bay to me before you get to the disabled bay. Certainly markings in this photo:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8650656,-...3312!8i6656

But degraded in this photo:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.8650606,-...3312!8i6656.

Is it a bay or not?


Mick


I just took new photos today and I’ve attached them here so you can see exactly the location, I was parked exactly at the same place where the red car parked.

This post has been edited by Kking: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 17:52
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 19:38
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This is a restricted zone No waiting except in marked bays. By definition loading or assisted boarding alighting would be exempt activities. This being so an instant tow. would be an abuse of process,
Observation should confirm no exempted activity

2180107304

Appeal decision
Appeal allowed
Direction
refund the release charges paid.
Reasons
The Appellant does not dispute the PCN but disputes the removal of his vehicle stating that it was unnecessary and excessive and has set out mitigating circumstances explaining the delay returning to his vehicle.
The local authority say that the vehicle was first observed at 13:01 parked on a single yellow line and the PCN was issued at 13:07 and the vehicle removed at 13:11.
I find the removal of the vehicle in such a short space of time at a location where loading and unloading is permitted for up to 20 minutes, and before the expiry of the loading time permitted to be excessive and unnecessary, particularly in the appellant's given circumstances.
I therefore allow this appeal in relation to the removal fees
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Neil B
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 22:48
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QUOTE (Kking @ Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 19:03) *
Thanks a lot guys but I’m quite confused about what I’m going to write so could you please give me the wording. Really appreciate that.

It's just my opinion but I think it's only fair to clue you up here.
One of the respondents has a personal agenda: Numerous towing cases have been taken off on this tangent; effectively, hijacked.
That should be evident again here, in just the few hours since you posed the above question.

The person concerned has, as I understand it, been suspended and or barred from this forum numerous times and their latest 'name' is the
umpteenth incarnation.

While there might be some merit in some of the things he/she has to say I am repeatedly bemused why they don't just
go and get towed themselves; giving them the opportunity and incentive to challenge as they insist is possible.
They certainly haven't ever demonstrated, on this forum, that they have the wherewithal to actually present a case and
see it through to a successful outcome: In short, unrealistic and the bottom line to that is, hence actually unhelpful.
I don't recall them ever offering to attend to represent anyone seeking help, as is obvious such contentious arguments would require.

I hope that helps clarify the advice being given.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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southpaw82
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 23:29
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I’ve removed the “debate” about towing and fees to The Flame Pit.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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cp8759
post Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 12:15
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 20:38) *
This is a restricted zone No waiting except in marked bays. By definition loading or assisted boarding alighting would be exempt activities. This being so an instant tow. would be an abuse of process,
Observation should confirm no exempted activity

2180107304

Appeal decision
Appeal allowed
Direction
refund the release charges paid.
Reasons
The Appellant does not dispute the PCN but disputes the removal of his vehicle stating that it was unnecessary and excessive and has set out mitigating circumstances explaining the delay returning to his vehicle.
The local authority say that the vehicle was first observed at 13:01 parked on a single yellow line and the PCN was issued at 13:07 and the vehicle removed at 13:11.
I find the removal of the vehicle in such a short space of time at a location where loading and unloading is permitted for up to 20 minutes, and before the expiry of the loading time permitted to be excessive and unnecessary, particularly in the appellant's given circumstances.
I therefore allow this appeal in relation to the removal fees

I would add that towing the vehicle was a disproportionate interference with Kking's property rights under Article 1 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR, and it is for the council to show that towing was a proportionate response in pursuance of a legitimate aim. Two cases that can be quoted in support of this are:

https://www.scribd.com/document/374695358/B...t-Protocol-ECHR (It is for the council to establish the removal was proportionate)
https://www.scribd.com/document/374695480/R...ol-City-Council (there is a principle of “fair balance” between the severity of the parking infringement and the citizen’s right to quiet enjoyment of their property)

If the council cannot demonstrate that towing was a fair and proportionate interference with Kking's property rights, they must refund the towing fees.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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