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ECP PCN Advice, ECP PCN Letter / appeal
Snout
post Thu, 3 May 2018 - 13:51
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Hi, thank you in advance for taking a look at this. I hope to get some useful & constructive feedback on the below letter I've cobbled together for a PCN that has arrived. I've also attached / linked to the signage and the PCN letter.



Firstly, as keeper of the vehicle, I would like to pass this communication to xxxxx who will act on my behalf.

With reference to your Parking Charge Notification xxxxxx, xxxxxx I believe it was incorrectly issued. Your invitation for the driver to be named is respectfully declined, which I understand is not required of the keeper. The parking charge notice issued by Euro Car Parks Ltd. is appealed on the following grounds and should be cancelled.

1. Frustration of Contract / Equality
2. Grace Period / ANPR
3. Photographs / ANPR
4. Additional Information

1. Frustration of contract / Equality

One passenger, suffers from terminal cancer. On the day in question this elderly female, became short winded, tired and found it very difficult to continue walking. It was necessary to stop for some time which caused the overstay. This person is in possession of a blue badge for her condition which was clearly displayed in the vehicle. A 3rd party witness in addition to the passengers in the vehicle at the time are available to provide written witness statements if necessary. In addition to the Equality Act 2010 where it states “reasonable adjustments” for those needing it, I would also urge you to consider that of the recommendation of time to read signage (BPA CoP), plus the fact there was also a baby (and equipment (pram, etc) that also needed to be loaded and unloaded.

2. Grace period / ANPR Equipment

Whilst effective at monitoring the time between observations of registration plates, ANPR is flawed for monitoring the length of time a car was parked. The ANPR cameras are parked at the entrance and exit of the car park, recording when a car passed it. However, the time between the two photographs would be the time parked, PLUS the time looking for a space, time reading the signage and the time leaving the car park. In busy car parks, of which this is, this adds up to quite a period of time and this vehicle spent quite a while searching for a suitable bay and waiting to exit onto the road. The payment transaction was at 11:14am yet you base the PCN on an entry time of 11:06am which contradicts the BPA CoP (see #1). You are also inconsistent with the use of the word ‘parking’ which is misleading. An example of such is on the PCN itself “the P&D/permit purchased did not cover the date and time of parking”.

It is misleading to assume entry and exit. A person could understand this to be entry and exit of the parking bay to which they rent for the duration. Which makes sense as driving around the car park and failing to find a suitable space would not breach the T&C’s. It is also questionable to assume at what point the exit is positioned and if other vehicles temporarily preventing exit are considered. In order to meet the transparency requirement, the signage should state not only the timing is from the point of entry and exit to the car park but identify where the car park / ‘parking’ boundary is. If that is not done, how could any motorist have reasonably known?

Additionally, under paragraph 21.3 of the BPA Code of Practice, parking companies are required to ensure ANPR equipment is maintained and is in correct working order. I require ECP to provide records with the location of the cameras used in this instance, together dates and times of when the equipment was checked, calibrated, maintained and synchronized with the timer which stamps the photo images to ensure the accuracy of the ANPR images. Having said that, the parking charge notice issued (and one used for judgement) is founded entirely on 2 photos of the vehicle number plate allegedly entering and leaving the car park at specific times (no indication of car park shown within the photographic images).

3. Photographs / ANPR

No evidence of period parked. The parking charge notice clearly states the did not cover the date and time of parking. PoFA2012 Sched 4 Para 9 refers at numerous times to the period of parking. By virtue of the nature of an ANPR system recording only entry and exit times, ECP are not able to definitively state the period of parking. Contrary to the mandatory provisions of the BPA code of practice, there is no record to show that the vehicle was parked longer than the time allowed PLUS the mandatory grace periods. These are a minimum of 10 minutes to leave the car park and a similar period to cover the period after the vehicle parks, finds signage, reads the signage and decides whether to accept or reject the terms offered within. An alleged 20 minutes overstay does not meet the code of practice. Additionally, there is no evidence that the vehicle was ‘parked’ for the time stated.

The BPA Code of Practice clearly states in section 20.5a that photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph. The photographs you have provided on the Parking Charge Notice, and the ones used for judgement in this case may have been digitally altered to show only the registration plate, they also have no time stamp. Nor do they make any reference to the carpark.

In addition to showing the maintenance records, it is requested for ECP to show evidence to rebut the following assertion. It is suggested that in the case of this vehicle being in that car park, a local camera took the image but a remote server added the time stamps. As the two are disconnected by the internet and do not have a common "time synchronisation system", there is no proof that any time stamp (no stamp provided on your evidence) added is actually the exact time of the image. The Operator appears to use WIFI which introduces a delay through buffering, so "live" is not really "live". Hence, without a synchronised time stamp, there is no evidence that the image is ever time stamped with an accurate time. Therefore I contend that this ANPR evidence from the cameras in this car park is just as unreliable and unsynchronised as the evidence put forward in the recent case of ParkingEye v Fox-Jones on 8 Nov 2013. That case was dismissed when the judge deemed the evidence from ParkingEye to be fundamentally flawed because the synchronisation of the camera pictures with the timer had been called into question and the operator could not rebut the point. As its whole charge rests upon two timed photo images, it is put to ECP to strict proof to the contrary.

4. Additional Information

ECP’s authority from the landowner, to enforce parking charges regarding alleged breaches at this car park is questioned.

Please supply evidence that the landowner is a member of the AOS and meets all the compliance conditions.

If you reject the challenge and insist on taking the matter further then this will also be appealed to POPLA (therefore, please provide a POPLA Code) where you will be expected to provide your full contract with the landowner. You should be informed that a claim for expenses from you may be issued. The expenses that may be claimed are not exhaustive but may include the cost of man hours, stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, administration fees, etc. By continuing to pursue the keeper you agree to pay these costs when the keeper prevails.

Any communication that does not either confirm cancellation or include a POPLA verification code/IAS appeal information will be reported to the BPA/IPC as a breach of their Code of Practice - the BPA recently issued guidance to all members to remind them of this fact. Such communication may also be deemed harassment and pursued accordingly.

As stated in your Parking Charge Notice, this appeal and associated costs / dates will now place on hold.






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post Thu, 3 May 2018 - 13:51
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 13:28
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Yes it's a breach so ask the do people Tom explain before you complain

Have you made the com0laint as advised above?
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Snout
post Sat, 2 Jun 2018 - 21:27
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@nosferatu1001
I appreciate you giving up your free time. Im just wondering if you can spare a few mins to have a look over the above? I'd like to send it to popla in the next few days but i really need to know if ive got it generally right or not. Im targeting you because you helped me once before and made a lot of sense.
It is genuinely very much appreciated... Thanks!

Sorry, i didnt see the response you wrote, it didnt show on my mobile for some reason. Anyway, no... i didnt do anything yet. I thought i needed to send 1 new appeal with everything to popla
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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 3 Jun 2018 - 01:18
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Your complaint to DP at the ppc is independent of the appeal

I'm really busy this weekend, if other regulars can help!
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Snout
post Sun, 3 Jun 2018 - 14:39
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Is this OK for the letter regarding data protection?

Euro Car Parks

With reference to your recent letter and your non-reply of the email on 10 May, I would like to remind you that your comments are still awaited. In addition to this, your comments on the misuse of data in this case are also awaited particularly considering that you (the data protection team) said you were unable to release any data until you established the identity of myself and the registered keeper (SAR). Well, it is noted and documented that you (info@eurocarparks.com) in fact released a copy of the NTK, photos of the alleged vehicle and information appertaining to payment. This clear violation of data protection has, and still is causing my client a great deal of distress and anxiety.

As you have clearly violated data protection in this case, I demand this case be cancelled.

I await your response
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Snout
post Mon, 4 Jun 2018 - 20:20
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Appreciate y'all probably busy and have far better things to be doing, but any chance of some help? I really need to send these letters off and I could do with someone casting their eye over them first. I dont want to just send just in case im way off point. Thanks alot~!
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 4 Jun 2018 - 21:27
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You've not given people much chance

It's just been holidays
Carry on doing your research
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Snout
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 08:38
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I dont think I have much time left. I may need to send as is...
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kommando
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 08:53
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Nothing wrong with it that I can see, they will probably reject but then you will get a POPLA code for second appeal.
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Snout
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 09:15
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@kommando thank you very much for your comments. I'll send the privacy email today. Am I correct in that, I hold off the POPLA appeal and disability complaint to land owner for now and wait for ECP to respond to the privacy email? Then... after they reject, I complain to the land owner and lastly to POPLA (with all details including the disability & privacy rejection included)? My POPLA appeal is within this thread if you fancy a bit of toilet reading.

oh... does all this need to fit within the 28 day window?

Ta~
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 09:22
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If you have a POPLA code to appeal, it MUST be used within around 30 days of issue (it works for a couple days over the 28 advertised)
THis isnt optional, you cannot misss htis, when it expires it is gone.
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Snout
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 09:39
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@nosferatu1001 - Maybe a daft question, but do they work on working days or does it include sat / sun & bank holidays?
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 09:40
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Unless otherwise told, it is calendar days
Thats the basic for anything to do with dates: when its working days, it is always explicitly stated as such.
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kommando
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 09:40
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Includes w/e and bank holidays.
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Snout
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 09:45
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thanks. i got my rejection on the 23rd May, so I'm good till the 20th June. Sent the privacy email just now... not sure if I can complain to the landowner in time though, I'm sure ECP will be slow to respond and will probably not give me landowner details without the whole SAR application.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 7 Jun 2018 - 10:06
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Just complain now, no need to wait.
You can google the landowner. Land registry, council records, etc.
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Snout
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 08:43
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Response when trying the Land Registry: (talk about losing the will... wacko.gif

Unfortunately as the results you’ve listed relate to‘land’ we would need a plan to identify. In this situation I would suggest you apply for a Search of the IndexMap using form SIM. This will provideyou with a guaranteed result.

This search costs £4 if less than five registered titles aredisclosed. We will contact you if any additional titles are disclosed andfurther fees are payable.

You must also include a plan with your application, so thatwe can identify the land that you are interested in, together with a cheque or postalorder as your payment.

The plan should be drawn to scale and be based on the latestedition of the large scale Ordnance Survey map. The scale and north pointshould be indicated, and the extent of the land should be shown by suitablecolouring and its position in relation to nearby roads, and other features,should be clearly visible.

Please send your form to our standard address

The search result will be posted back to you.

If the land is registered, you can then use the titlenumber(s) supplied to search on 'Find a Property' using 'Detailed Enquiry' andif the information is held electronically you will be able to download a copyof the register and/or title plan to your device
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Macapaca
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 09:12
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The easiest way to get the info is to use the map enquiry link on the land registry search page. This enables you to pinpoint the piece of land in question. You then fill in your details, pay the fee and you get an electronic registry entry showing the owner and land boundary marked on the map.
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Snout
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 09:16
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Hi... yep, that's what I did and it threw up 3 entries. I fed that back to Land Registry who gave me that response. As it's surrounded by 4 roads, I've now asked why I need to do what they ask.
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Snout
post Fri, 8 Jun 2018 - 15:14
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I dont think this is possible to do before the 28 days are up... itll take them a week! Plus time in the post. Will need to send the popla appeal in first (any comments on that)? Thanks
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Snout
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 21:53
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Hi, I guess I'll just have to send the Popla appeal I wrote above... not had any comments. I know people are doing this in their spare time but if anyone can have a quick look asap it would be very much appreciated. I'll look to send in the next day or two. Thanks!
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