PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

UK CPM - Visitor parking PCN
DragonQ
post Mon, 20 Mar 2017 - 18:12
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 31 May 2011
Member No.: 47,126



My car was parked in a visitor's bay in my residential parking area. One morning I woke up to find a Parking Charge Notice attached to it from UK CPM, who have some signs up around the car park. The issue reason is not displaying a valid parking permit. I have a visitor's permit that is in the car but I am not sure how visible it was on this occasion.

UK CPM are a part of IPC, although the sign says they are a BPA member. I have two questions:

- Am I right in thinking that I needn't do anything until I receive a Notice to Keeper through the post?
- Is there any point contacting my management company to ask for the charge to be cleared (since it's designed to stop people who don't live here or aren't visiting using the bays, not to catch people who live here out), or are they likely to just refer me to UK CPM?

I've attached a redacted copy of the PCN and also a photo of the signs up around the area. I've had a quick look through the contract I signed with the management company when buying the property, as well as their "welcome pack", and can't see any mention of parking whatsoever.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
5 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Mon, 20 Mar 2017 - 18:12
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 20 Mar 2017 - 18:53
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,541
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



QUOTE
- Am I right in thinking that I needn't do anything until I receive a Notice to Keeper through the post?
- Is there any point contacting my management company to ask for the charge to be cleared (since it's designed to stop people who don't live here or aren't visiting using the bays, not to catch people who live here out...


Yes and yes. But don't say who parked.

When complaining, write as the 'keeper' of the car and be assertive and insist there must be scope for the agent to cancel these for permit holders and if it costs a tenner you'll pay that (if you agree to do so, to get shot of this trash). Often there is a week or two window to do so, after which a landowner says get lost.

Add that, as you own the flat, you have rights and easements under your lease and a right to peaceful enjoyment. This is a baseless attempt to charge in a free car park area, where parking and rights of way are already offered in the lease, without caveat. Tell them that these pseudo 'charges' are not a feature of your contract and cannot be incorporated now without formal variation of the lease, which you will not agree to.

Tell them that you believe they, as Managing Agents, have a conflict of interests and are likely to be taking a kickback from each 'PCN', yet the entire regime is a matter of derogation from grant, contrary to the rights of residents. Even worse is the fact that UKCPM are notorious ex-clampers in a rotten industry and are known to sue residents for parking in their own car parks.

This has incensed you and you require these charges are quashed immediately. Finally, draw their attention to the case of Jopson v Home Guard (a persuasive appeal case)* attach the Jopson transcript and suggest that they need to seek legal advice because they are disregarding the rights of leaseholders and in the Jopson case, she claimed over £2000 in costs to beat a similar scam. Call it as it is.


*
http://nebula.wsimg.com/f6d657adf7df70d27e...p;alloworigin=1
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DragonQ
post Tue, 21 Mar 2017 - 15:51
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 31 May 2011
Member No.: 47,126



Thanks for the reply. It's actually a house that I own, which includes a single parking space. I am not actually sure who owns the visitor bays within the car park, so I'm not sure what actually gives me the right to use the visitor bays (aside from the fact that I was given a permit for one).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 21 Mar 2017 - 15:57
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,541
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



Modern leases include rights of way and easements. That plus the fact you have a visitors permit, suggests you have primacy of contract.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DragonQ
post Tue, 2 May 2017 - 16:52
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 31 May 2011
Member No.: 47,126



I have received a NTK and am drafting a response letter based on the MSE template for IPC members. Is there any way I can use their incorrect use of "BPA member" logos on their signs against them? Anything else I can add that's specific to this case?

By the way, I never received a reply from the management company. I'll be following up that too.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lynnzer
post Tue, 2 May 2017 - 18:05
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,192
Joined: 9 Feb 2006
Member No.: 4,813



See my signature templates.
Use the 1st one then the other for Tortious Interferance.

In my opinion these are not appeal-able. You have no need to appeal when they are presumably using your own allocated or one that you have been granted the use of from the lease. You should instead put them to task.

Amend the letters and send them out.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DragonQ
post Wed, 3 May 2017 - 18:24
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 31 May 2011
Member No.: 47,126



Thanks for the reply. Should I remove the part about "you must only operate on land where you have the landholder’s permission" since this is a communal space?

Also what kind of amount is reasonable for trespass (if it even applies in this case)?

This post has been edited by DragonQ: Wed, 3 May 2017 - 18:37
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Thu, 4 May 2017 - 11:00
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16,702
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



If you have rights over the space, you are a joint landholder. Theyd need to get agreement from all those with interest.

£250 is a good start. Its aggravated because theyre operating a business from your land.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lynnzer
post Thu, 4 May 2017 - 11:37
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,192
Joined: 9 Feb 2006
Member No.: 4,813



QUOTE (DragonQ @ Wed, 3 May 2017 - 19:24) *
Thanks for the reply. Should I remove the part about "you must only operate on land where you have the landholder’s permission" since this is a communal space?

Also what kind of amount is reasonable for trespass (if it even applies in this case)?

They shouldn't even have agreed a parking regime without the Landowner's authority. See my Flamepit topic


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DragonQ
post Thu, 4 May 2017 - 17:42
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 31 May 2011
Member No.: 47,126



I actually found the part about my parking rights in the property title:

"The right...to the use in common with all others entitled to a like right on a first come first served basis any visitors parking space in the vicinity of the property for the temporary parking of private motor vehicles." smile.gif

They have an online enquiry form but the PCN says everything should be done in writing so sending it via recorded delivery might work better?

This post has been edited by DragonQ: Thu, 4 May 2017 - 19:24
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AOneVs
post Thu, 4 May 2017 - 20:08
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: 21 Nov 2016
Member No.: 88,600



I'm going to court at the end of this month with these cowboys. Same situation, but no permit required. Their signs had the BPA AOS logo too, when they are IPC.

I can't see how the IPC\IAS can disallow an appeal on the grounds the signage breaches the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 by displaying the BPA logo.

I'll let you know how I get on in court.

Good luck!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DragonQ
post Thu, 4 May 2017 - 22:05
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 31 May 2011
Member No.: 47,126



QUOTE (AOneVs @ Thu, 4 May 2017 - 21:08) *
I'm going to court at the end of this month with these cowboys. Same situation, but no permit required. Their signs had the BPA AOS logo too, when they are IPC.

I can't see how the IPC\IAS can disallow an appeal on the grounds the signage breaches the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 by displaying the BPA logo.

I'll let you know how I get on in court.

Good luck!

Nice, will be interested to hear how it goes.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Fri, 5 May 2017 - 07:55
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16,702
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



QUOTE (AOneVs @ Thu, 4 May 2017 - 20:08) *
I'm going to court at the end of this month with these cowboys. Same situation, but no permit required. Their signs had the BPA AOS logo too, when they are IPC.

I can't see how the IPC\IAS can disallow an appeal on the grounds the signage breaches the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 by displaying the BPA logo.

I'll let you know how I get on in court.

Good luck!

Because the IAS are a kangaroo court that g'tee to uphold 80%+ of parking charges.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lynnzer
post Fri, 5 May 2017 - 08:59
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,192
Joined: 9 Feb 2006
Member No.: 4,813



QUOTE (AOneVs @ Thu, 4 May 2017 - 21:08) *
I'm going to court at the end of this month with these cowboys. Same situation, but no permit required. Their signs had the BPA AOS logo too, when they are IPC.

I can't see how the IPC\IAS can disallow an appeal on the grounds the signage breaches the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 by displaying the BPA logo.

I'll let you know how I get on in court.

Good luck!

Corporate BPA member only. They can do this but they don't do POPLA.
I really can;t understand why the BPA allows Corporate Membership to IPC mebers. Seems a confict of interst to me. But,,,,,, this is the greedy parking industry.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DragonQ
post Fri, 5 May 2017 - 09:11
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 31 May 2011
Member No.: 47,126



QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Fri, 5 May 2017 - 09:59) *
Corporate BPA member only. They can do this but they don't do POPLA.
I really can;t understand why the BPA allows Corporate Membership to IPC mebers. Seems a confict of interst to me. But,,,,,, this is the greedy parking industry.

I've made a complaint to the BPA about their incorrect claims of being BPA AOS members. Don't really care but if it causes them grief that's fine with me. I've also submitted the letter to them, let's see what happens! Need to contact the management company again since they just ignored my original letter. Might call them to confirm they received it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DragonQ
post Sat, 20 May 2017 - 18:07
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 31 May 2011
Member No.: 47,126



Got a reply from UK CPM:

QUOTE
Within your letter, you state that UK Car Park Management are using your allocated bay for our own business purposes, please see below one of the images that was taken. of your vehicle at the time of the contravention. (All other images can be viewed on www.paymyticket.co.uk).

As you can see your vehicle was parked in a marked ‘V’ bay, not your allocated parking bay. The visitor bays are for visitors and whilst vehicles are parked within these bays a valid UK CPM visitor permit must be displayed at all times.

The parking conditions are in place to stop unauthorised parking, without a valid UK CPM permit displayed the operatives are unable to ascertain which vehicles are authorised to be parked. As a resident and permit holder you are fully aware of the terms and conditions for parking and that parking in breach of those terms may result in your vehicle being issued with a parking charge notice.

We have not breached the Data Protection Act by obtaining your details from the DVLA as your details were requested through the Reasonable Cause criteria of pursuing an outstanding parking charge. A PCN was correctly issued to your vehicle, as you ignored this notice a First Reminder was sent.

UK Car Park Management fully complies with the IPC’s Code of Practice. We do not own the land the vehicle was parked upon, however we do hold a legal contract that authorises our enforcement officers to monitor and maintain. the parking areas on behalf of the landowner. This therefore entitles UK CPM to issue and uphold all parking charge notices given to those who have breached the parking restrictions.

We will not be paying for trespass as no trespass has occurred, as we have already stated your vehicle was parked in a visitor bay.

It is not within your jurisdiction to claim for damages for misuse of the data from the DVLA as you are not the DVLA. Irrespective of this your details were correctly obtained to pursue an outstanding parking charge and nothing else. Therefore, there has been no wrongful application or misuse of the data from the DVLA.

Most of their reply is irrelevant because I never actually said they were using my "allocated bay" - I said it was an "allocated parking area" of mine (i.e. a visitor space). I get the feeling they are replying to the original template letter rather than the actual letter I wrote! They make the point that I am aware of the terms and conditions, ignoring the fact that my original letter stated that their terms and conditions are irrelevant as they are trumped by my property deeds, which state I can use the visitor bays without any mention of restrictions. Interestingly, the letter makes no mention of whether they will be pursuing the original parking charge or not but their language suggests they still expect me to pay it.

This post has been edited by DragonQ: Sat, 20 May 2017 - 18:07
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lynnzer
post Sat, 20 May 2017 - 20:19
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,192
Joined: 9 Feb 2006
Member No.: 4,813



So progress this to the Managing Agents for their action.

What you need to do is build up a few rejections of your request for cancellation based on your leaseholder rights.
Then when they all fail to address this you are in a place of comfort to start a claim against the MA and UKCPS.
See this and you'll get an idea of how this was constructed by a legally trained person.

This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Sat, 20 May 2017 - 20:20


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DragonQ
post Thu, 25 May 2017 - 16:32
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 31 May 2011
Member No.: 47,126



Neither the NTK nor subsequent letter from UK CPM actually mentions any potential legal action so that kind of letter seems a bit premature, although I definitely think I need to contact the management agency again.

This post has been edited by DragonQ: Thu, 25 May 2017 - 16:33
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Fri, 26 May 2017 - 07:50
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16,702
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



It isnt prematrure to enforce your leased rights.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DragonQ
post Fri, 26 May 2017 - 09:07
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 31 May 2011
Member No.: 47,126



QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 26 May 2017 - 08:50) *
It isnt prematrure to enforce your leased rights.

I agree but the letter is centred around including the management agent in a threatened court case, which hasn't (yet) happened. I can say that I intend to add them as a party if UK CPM try to take me to court and then cut out the irrelevent parts of the letter though.

P.S. I own the property, I don't rent it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

5 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 22nd June 2018 - 10:46
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.