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Disabled badge used, Need help with rejected appeal
SxcQueenE
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 12:08
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Hi, dropped my dad, my mom and his wheelchair as close to a venue as possible and parked across the road in the disabled bay and displayed his blue badge as necessary, saw two parking wardens but didn't think anything of it until returning to my car to find a ticked on it. I obviously appealed and stated that the blue badge was displayed. They rejected my appeal and stated the warden only saw me get out the car, which is correct as I had dropped them as close as possible to avoid the kerbs for my dad in the wheelchair and as it was wet in the ground. The ticket given had reason down as not clearly displaying the blue badge in a disabled bay...so I obviously appealed this as the badge was displayed. I didn't think you couldn't park in the bay unless you are directly getting him out the car in the bay? When we left the venue, he obviously needed to be close to the venue so not sure what the issue was in me parking in the bay as it was used and needed upon leaving the venue? Any help would be appreciated
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post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 12:08
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TigerRob
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 18:06
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I don't see any issues with the PCN (others may)

I can't see you failing to get this overturned.

Let others comment, but I'd probably try a second informal challenge at this point - this time give a full explanation of the circumstances and include a witness statement from mum backing it all up.
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DancingDad
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 19:26
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QUOTE (SxcQueenE @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 18:01) *
My summary was basically stating that the badge is clearly visible as shown in their own pictures used as evidence and that it is a valid badge and was displayed on the dashboard as it should, it was very brief and as simple as that as I was responding to the code broken that I didnt display a valid blue badge, it went something along these line;

I received a PCN from you guys and have looked at the evident picture you have attached and even in your own evidence you can clearly see the blue badge is displayed so not sure why this PCN was even issued in the first place. The badge is clearly displayed on the dashboard and the expiry date can be seen and is fully valid and certified. Please have this ticket cancelled as I dont know why you would have issued it to begin with



Okay.
That makes more sense as to why they rejected.

IMO it is time to go back now.
Don't suppose you have any photos of the trip or took any of Dad by car when you found the PCN ???

Dear Sirs
Ref PCN ????
Your letter dated ????
There seems to be a belief on your part that the Blue Badge was being used unlawfully.
May I address this immediately and emphatically deny this.
I apologise that I did not make this clear earlier but simply thought that the PCN had been issued in error.
Yes, your CEOs would have seen myself park the vehicle within the disabled bay and display the Blue Badge.
This badge is issued to my father and the journey and parking were solely for his benefit.
We were visiting the new library as a family, myself, my mother and my father (correct as needed)
I had stopped briefly further up the road to enable my father to be assisted in leaving the vehicle and getting into his wheelchair.
I then moved the car to the disabled bay, parked, displayed and returned to my family and father.
At the end of the visit, we all returned to the vehicle, assisted my father into it and found the PCN.
This journey, the display of the Blue Badge and parking within a disabled bay all followed the guidance supplied with the Blue Badge, was solely for my father and he was within the vehicle until immediately prior to parking and when we left.
Incidentally, should you check the blue badge issue, you will see that this is the normal vehicle registered, as I habitually drive my father to all his appointments or visits.
I cannot include any statement from my father as he suffers from dementia but include one from My mother who was with us that day and holds his power of attorney.
I also include a copy of the BB and snapshots taken that day (if any)
I am willing to discuss this fully with your officials should you still consider that the blue badge was used unlawfully.
Having put this straight, please confirm cancellation of this PCN.
Hugs and kisses
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 19:32
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 19:26) *
QUOTE (SxcQueenE @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 18:01) *
My summary was basically stating that the badge is clearly visible as shown in their own pictures used as evidence and that it is a valid badge and was displayed on the dashboard as it should, it was very brief and as simple as that as I was responding to the code broken that I didnt display a valid blue badge, it went something along these line;

I received a PCN from you guys and have looked at the evident picture you have attached and even in your own evidence you can clearly see the blue badge is displayed so not sure why this PCN was even issued in the first place. The badge is clearly displayed on the dashboard and the expiry date can be seen and is fully valid and certified. Please have this ticket cancelled as I dont know why you would have issued it to begin with



Okay.
That makes more sense as to why they rejected.

IMO it is time to go back now.
Don't suppose you have any photos of the trip or took any of Dad by car when you found the PCN ???

Dear Sirs
Ref PCN ????
Your letter dated ????
There seems to be a belief on your part that the Blue Badge was being used unlawfully.
May I address this immediately and emphatically deny this.
I apologise that I did not make this clear earlier but simply thought that the PCN had been issued in error.
Yes, your CEOs would have seen myself park the vehicle within the disabled bay and display the Blue Badge.
This badge is issued to my father and the journey and parking were solely for his benefit.
We were visiting the new library as a family, myself, my mother and my father (correct as needed)
I had stopped briefly further up the road (at the lowered kerb) to enable my father to be assisted in leaving the vehicle and getting into his wheelchair.
I then moved the car to the disabled bay, parked, displayed and returned to my family and father.
At the end of the visit, we all returned to the vehicle, assisted my father into it and found the PCN.
This journey, the display of the Blue Badge and parking within a disabled bay all followed the guidance supplied with the Blue Badge, was solely for my father and he was within the vehicle until immediately prior to parking and when we left.
Incidentally, should you check the blue badge issue, you will see that this is the normal vehicle registered, as I habitually drive my father to all his appointments or visits.
I cannot include any statement from my father as he suffers from dementia but include one from My mother who was with us that day and holds his power of attorney.
I also include a copy of the BB and snapshots taken that day (if any)
I am willing to discuss this fully with your officials should you still consider that the blue badge was used unlawfully.
Having put this straight, please confirm cancellation of this PCN.
Hugs and kisses



I would add in the red(if correct) and miss out the yellow. That is volunteering for an interview under caution in regards to a criminal matter


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Neil B
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 19:54
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I asked ages ago -
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 12:43) *
Venue? For what?

It's important to your case.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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SxcQueenE
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 20:22
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Neil I have answered this question if you look over my responses I stated the Birmingham Library which is attached to REP Theater Birmingham, that was the venue we took him to

Dancing Dad, thank you I will try that letter and see where it goes from there but I imagine I wont even get a response as they will now expect me to await the NTK letter

Past my best - Will amend as advised, will take out the yellow line, thank you
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stamfordman
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 20:49
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I agree with PMB in taking out volunteering to attend a meeting. BB fraud is a serious matter but if Birmingham had wanted to take it further you would probably have heard something by now, so playing the PCN strictly by a representation on use as intended is best.
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Neil B
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 21:14
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QUOTE (SxcQueenE @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 20:22) *
Neil I have answered this question if you look over my responses I stated the Birmingham Library which is attached to REP Theater Birmingham, that was the venue we took him to

Sorry missed it.

and joined your parents in the library?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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DancingDad
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 23:09
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On the yellow line suggested removal.
Assuming that Op is telling the truth (and I have no reason to suppose otherwise) then a willingness to be interviewed illustrates that this is an honest account and there is nothing to fear from it, even if it is under caution.
But does no harm to remove. From my understanding of normal practice when a CEO sees suspected BB fraud, they can get a phone call made to the holder, often this shows that the holder is at home and cases are relatively cut and dried. If they didn't make the phone call or no answer then there is no proof and all an interview would hope for is self incrimination.

For Neil or others who may think a library visit is a strange day out, the new library is a tourist attraction.
Not only a library but hosts exhibitions, architecturally interesting and a viewing area that overlooks a lot of the city.
It would not be seen as a strange visit by any Brummie.

QUOTE
Dancing Dad, thank you I will try that letter and see where it goes from there but I imagine I wont even get a response as they will now expect me to await the NTK letter
NTO letter Notice to Owner.
Please check that your registration document is correct (v5c), address up to date with no errors. Whatever is on there is where the NTO will be sent.
If they do not answer we add a further challenge at NTO stage, failing to consider.
Not only does this letter hit their suspicions between the eyes, it falls into a challenge and that they must consider.
And it will be on record.
No answer from you at this stage would let their suspicions fester.

Shame you did not come to us first, we would have said explain all but nothing lost yet.
I cannot see you losing this BTW, just stick with the truth, listen to our advice and don't miss deadlines.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 23:11
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Neil B
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 23:51
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 23:09) *
For Neil or others who may think a library visit is a strange day out, the new library is a tourist attraction.
Not only a library but hosts exhibitions, architecturally interesting and a viewing area that overlooks a lot of the city.
It would not be seen as a strange visit by any Brummie.

I don't.
I was just pointing out that it might help if they described their movements. Whether it was joining the parents or going shopping
matters not, the car was left there for the BB holders use, ready for the return trip. i.e. badge in the use of badge holder throughout.

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 23:09) *
On the yellow line suggested removal.
Assuming that Op is telling the truth (and I have no reason to suppose otherwise) then a willingness to be interviewed illustrates that this is an honest account and there is nothing to fear from it, even if it is under caution.

I lean towards PMB on this. BBs are issued by Councils, this one likely B'ham. It only takes a jobsworth to decide that driving 30m without
the badge holder is not allowed and they'll cause all manner of grief; even without prosecution they might withdraw it.
I don't think the potential benefit you mention outweighs that risk.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 23:43


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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