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PCN issued at 70151 station road newham london while the machine was faulty, PCN issued while the machine was faulty
boxer29
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 17:49
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while visiting London and staying in a flat I parked my car in the station road and tried to pay but the machine lcd was giving an error message, I did not had any other option to download the paybyphone app pay with this ,the car ticket expired at around 16.45 and I tried to extend the time by extending the ticket by paying more but the app failed to take money by giving me a message that my parking can not be extended at 16.56.
I tried to move my car but it was sandwiched in two cars so cant move. To my surprise when I saw the parking attended standing next to the car I told him I tried all option to pay and move the car and he can see that I was in no position to move the car as the cars parked in front and rear were so close that it was impossible to move my car without damaging.
the front car was parked in the e charging bay and the vehicle behind was in the bay as it was a parking bay for two cars and the front bays were for the e charging cars.
I have taken all the photos of the machine and a screen shot of my app which will not allow me to extend my parking.
the parking fine was issued at 17.13 and I tried to pay with the app at 16.56 which came with an error "your parking cannot be extended."
I don't want to pay the 80 pounds fine now as I tried my best to extend the parking time by paying the amount for 2 hours which is 3 pounds.
I also rang the parking company and explained to them about the events as I also explained to the parking attended putting the ticket on my car. but he said he has issued the ticket and I can only appeal against it now.
any help how do I complaint about this





This post has been edited by boxer29: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 17:50
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post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 17:49
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cp8759
post Mon, 22 Jul 2019 - 16:39
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If you put a final draft as text in a thread we can do any final tidying up for you.


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boxer29
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 11:06
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I have drafted a letter for you guys to amend as needed.
I will send the NTO dated 15.07.2019 signed and tick in the box which says __The alleged contravention did not occur.

Do I need to just attach my photograph of my car boxed in or do I need to send the other pictures which I have posted here
like the screen shot of the app refusing to extend the parking time OR I don't need to send any picture let them see from the
council portal.

I will be sending it first class and get the proof of sending from the post office

To, Dated 23.07.19
L B Newham Parking Correspondence
PO Box 71575
London
E6 9LY

Subject: Representations for PCN no--------- dated 20.4.19 at 17:13 hrs

Dear Sir or Madam,

Further to your NTO dated15/07/2019
I would like to make Representations for PCN number ------- dated 20.4.19 at 17:13 hrs.

I was aware that my paid for time was due to expire.
I therefore returned to my car to move it out of the parking place and arrived there 5 minutes before my time expired.
I could not move the car as it was boxed in as you can see from the picture and the Council's own timed and dated photographs.
When I could not locate the drivers I attempted to purchase further time at 16:56, and 17:04 however the app
rejected my attempt to pay (see the attached screen shots from the phone).


Unfortunately, as the attached pictures demonstrate, I found my car boxed in. I tried to move but
could not; I tried to pay, but was not allowed. Had my vehicle not been boxed in, I would have
removed my vehicle and the alleged contravention could not have been alleged, as my vehicle would
not have been there. Had it been possible to purchase more time, I would have done so, but this was
not an option as it proved impossible to purchase an extension of time.

Being boxed in, and thus a victim of a crime (obstructing the highway being a criminal offence),
I found myself in a situation where I was unable to move the vehicle due to reasons beyond my control.
In the circumstances, the alleged contravention did not occur.

The tribunal might regard refusal or non-consideration of my key ground of appeal as wholly unreasonable and/or vexatious.
The Council's own timed and dated photographs clearly demonstrate that the vehicle could not be moved at the time of
the alleged contravention.

I would therefore claim the exemption that my car could not be moved due to circumstances beyond the driver's control.
In support of this ground I would draw the Council's attention to ETA cases 2160180549 and 2180029903.

thanks
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cp8759
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 18:50
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Looks good.


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John U.K.
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 19:16
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 18:50) *
Looks good.


CP - would you advise OP to enclose copies of the decisions quoted?
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 20:04
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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 20:16) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 18:50) *
Looks good.


CP - would you advise OP to enclose copies of the decisions quoted?



I wouldn't for reps, I'd let them do some work or fail to consider


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boxer29
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 21:35
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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 20:16) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 18:50) *
Looks good.


CP - would you advise OP to enclose copies of the decisions quoted?

i will sign and tick the box which says the contravention did not occur and send it with the above letter

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 21:04) *
QUOTE (John U.K. @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 20:16) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 18:50) *
Looks good.


CP - would you advise OP to enclose copies of the decisions quoted?



I wouldn't for reps, I'd let them do some work or fail to consider


which decision are you talking about now you have confused me ,should i send the NTO after siginging at the back and ticking the box "no contravention "
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 21:43
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QUOTE (boxer29 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 22:35) *
QUOTE (John U.K. @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 20:16) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 18:50) *
Looks good.


CP - would you advise OP to enclose copies of the decisions quoted?

i will sign and tick the box which says the contravention did not occur and send it with the above letter

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 21:04) *
QUOTE (John U.K. @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 20:16) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 18:50) *
Looks good.


CP - would you advise OP to enclose copies of the decisions quoted?



I wouldn't for reps, I'd let them do some work or fail to consider


which decision are you talking about now you have confused me ,should i send the NTO after siginging at the back and ticking the box "no contravention "


You quoted some case references in your reps those decisions. Don't worry about it


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boxer29
post Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 16:41
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 22:43) *
QUOTE (boxer29 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 22:35) *
QUOTE (John U.K. @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 20:16) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 18:50) *
Looks good.


CP - would you advise OP to enclose copies of the decisions quoted?

i will sign and tick the box which says the contravention did not occur and send it with the above letter

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 21:04) *
QUOTE (John U.K. @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 20:16) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 23 Jul 2019 - 18:50) *
Looks good.


CP - would you advise OP to enclose copies of the decisions quoted?



I wouldn't for reps, I'd let them do some work or fail to consider


which decision are you talking about now you have confused me ,should i send the NTO after siginging at the back and ticking the box "no contravention "


You quoted some case references in your reps those decisions. Don't worry about it


will post this tomorrow and get the proof of postage ,
will include the pictures which i posted first of my car being boxed in post#6, they can have a look at there pictures as well .
thanks very much for your help
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boxer29
post Thu, 25 Jul 2019 - 11:54
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faxed and posted the documents today, keeping the fingers crossed.
thanks for all your support and help.
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boxer29
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 09:34
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Got this rejection of rep yesterday which i am posting,
They still say that i was not boxed in and i should have left enough space while i was parking so that i can get out. well after i parked the car the other cars parked infront of me and at the back,thus boxing me in .The council are not able to understand,,pls can some one advise me me what to do next. Do i have to travel all the way to london for the hearing ??














This post has been edited by boxer29: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 10:11
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Incandescent
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 11:00
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You don't have to travel to London for a personal hearing, you can have a papers-based adjudication based on your reps and their evidence. The important point is to make sure the evidence of you being blocked-in is well proven with photos as well as being stated. The adjudicator will decide one way or the other "on the balance of probabilities".
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hcandersen
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 11:47
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OP, neither I nor you nor would an adjudicator know the council's reasons for rejecting your reps.

On the one hand they've implied that you were boxed in, but that it was your fault, while on the other they say that 'there is no evidence to suggest you were prevented from removing your vehicle'.

They cannot have it both ways.

IMO, register your appeal now under the grounds of contravention did not occur and procedural impropriety.

Additional information:
The contravention did not occur because I was prevented from moving my car once its permitted parking period had elapsed which is an exemption under the council's traffic order.

The procedural impropriety arises because the authority have failed to give proper consideration to my representations made on the above grounds. This failure is evidenced by their Notice of Rejection, paras. 3 and 5 refer. In the former, the authority state:
******** (write the para. in full)

While in the latter, the authority state:
****** (write in full)

Clearly the former means that the authority accept that I was prevented from moving while the latter can only reasonably interpreted as meaning that they do not accept that I was even prevented from moving and by extension not entitled to rely on the exemption.

These mutually exclusive explanations for refusing my representations show their unsound reasoning which I submit demonstrates a procedural impropriety. In addition, as the photos show I was in fact boxed-in.

My natural inclination on reading and re-reading the NOR was to write back to the authority for clarity. However, I was dissuaded from doing so because I made my representations by fax. on 25 July and only received their response (which the adjudicator will note omits the date on which they received representations and I ask the adjudicator to draw the obvious inference from this) on 17th September, a period of 55 days. While I recognise that this was just under the statutory limit, the authority make no reference to this nor, as recommended by the Statutory Guidance, give any reason for this inordinate delay. Consequently, I feared that should I write for clarity without first registering my appeal I could find that my request disappeared into the same Black Hole and I could not risk missing the deadline for appealing. Hence I have had to set out these points in detail at this stage as I know that these will be copied to the authority who will have to clarify their position and explain their delay at my hearing.

See what others think.
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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 12:38
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I would make reference to the Council's photos which, as evidence, completely rebuts their argument that there is no evidence. I would still pursue costs, if the appeal is accepted, purely on this basis alone.

The 56 day rule is precise and I wouldn't muddy the water--maths are not my strongpoint but the gap is 54 days. The black hole point must demonstrate a backlog and a Council which is not giving 100% which is demonstrated by their shoddy response. I don't even think they even considered their own photos.


Mick
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boxer29
post Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 12:22
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 12:00) *
You don't have to travel to London for a personal hearing, you can have a papers-based adjudication based on your reps and their evidence. The important point is to make sure the evidence of you being blocked-in is well proven with photos as well as being stated. The adjudicator will decide one way or the other "on the balance of probabilities".

Thanks for the information.
Do I need to provide copy of my photos or the photos of the council will be sufficient.

Also do you think its a good idea to add this line ."when I parked the spaces in front and rear were free but when I can back I was boxed in by the front and rear vehicles parked to close to mine."
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boxer29
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 09:45
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QUOTE (boxer29 @ Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 10:34) *
Got this rejection of rep yesterday which i am posting,
They still say that i was not boxed in and i should have left enough space while i was parking so that i can get out. well after i parked the car the other cars parked infront of me and at the back,thus boxing me in .The council are not able to understand,,pls can some one advise me me what to do next. Do i have to travel all the way to london for the hearing ??














I cant see my pictures of rejection of my reps which I posted here.
can some one please update what sites to use for uploading pictures/ documents here
I did use http://postimages.org/
your comments
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 14:29
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Use imgur.com to host pictures.


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Neil B
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 14:35
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QUOTE (boxer29 @ Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 10:45) *
I cant see my pictures of rejection of my reps which I posted here.

But you've just posted it and also previously?

What am I missing?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 18:22
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Well in any case as there's no discount on offer, you might as well appeal. For now I suggest you just register the appeal and write "detailed grounds to follow" in the reasons box, this will force the council to submit its evidence first. The tribunal will send you a deadline to submit your appeal wording, let us know the deadline when you get it.

It will make our life a lot easier if you also restore all the missing pictures.


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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 18:29
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What's behind the redacted sentence only personal details need redacting show us


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boxer29
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 20:15
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 15:35) *
QUOTE (boxer29 @ Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 10:45) *
I cant see my pictures of rejection of my reps which I posted here.

But you've just posted it and also previously?

What am I missing?

sorry for this. I could not see them on my work pc now I can see them .

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 15:29) *
Use imgur.com to host pictures.

thanks, from now will be using this to host pictures.
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