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Why don't people get four lane motorways
notmeatloaf
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:00
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I was driving along the four lane section of the M40 this evening and everyone had assumed their normal lane discipline.

Lane 1: NML, doing a speed of my choosing over 70mph.
Lane 2: Dacia owners, and occasional other drivers who wish to drive at 60mph for some reason.
Lane 3: Nose to tail 70mph.
Lane 4: Nose to tail 75mph.

Then you get to the three lane section and most people get back to not being idiots.

Why the hell does this happen? Why do people not see they are turning a four lane motorway into a crappy two lane road?

Before I get chewed out for undertaking, I have been in lane 4 and as someone who likes to leave approaching the highway code stopping distance in front of me rather than 5 metres as seems to be standard, you just end up with people pulling in front of you constantly as well as the obligatory panic braking every 30 seconds because a butterfly flew in front of someone at the next junction.

No, much better to have my own exclusive lane.

FWIW I was stopped by an undercover car many years ago for exactly this. Explained to the officers that I thought driving in the wacky races in the outside two lanes was more dangerous. And was then sent on my way with instructions not to bother them in future. So I know there is a risk of a clip around the ear.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:07
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post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:00
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DancingDad
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:24
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 00:00) *
......Then you get to the three lane section and most people get back to not being idiots.
………..


Que?
Visit some of the 3 lane motorways I use, plenty of idiots on them.
Usually plenty of MLOC in lane two, often being overtaken by lorries in lane 1.

Though I agree otherwise, regular on Birmingham VSL sections on M6 and M42
Hard shoulder open for business, toddle along that rather then indulge in the nose to tail in outer lanes and often find myself undertaking because I am in an empty lane.
Can't say I agree with undertaking at speed but can't say I don't do it either.
Am wary of the guy who may pull over without indicators or looking though, left lane is a blindspot to many.
Main reason is simply that I have comfortable stopping distance that I can control.

My other habit, not to overtake per se but for similar reason is to hit the far left lane whenever speed restrictions apply, VSL or roadworks.
Far easier to toddle along at 45-50 in a 50 limit then run nose to tail in outer lanes at 55.
I always want stopping distance, saved me on more then one occasion when traffic suddenly stopped.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:25
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Figaro
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 10:58
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I’m the same DD, I do a lot of VSL in Midlands and I often head for lane 1 for the steadier state and less stressful driving. Undertaking with a speed differential of a few miles an hour is a consequence of driving in heavy traffic and queues (all be it at speed) and if I ever get stopped I’ll politely explain that I’ve seen this somewhere in the Highway Code , not that I can quote it verbatim. This might need up going one of two ways via the attitude test but in 25 years of driving about 25k per year I’ve never ever once been pulled over anyway!

I’ve often said to myself that if I end up in a motorway pile up through not leaving enough space for stopping it would be hard to live with myself as it’s so obvious to predict and they are all too often the cause of daily delays. Backwards through a hedge on a deserted country road would be a different kind of accident to have to explain and live with biggrin.gif
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cp8759
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:01
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QUOTE (Figaro @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 11:58) *
I’m the same DD, I do a lot of VSL in Midlands and I often head for lane 1 for the steadier state and less stressful driving. Undertaking with a speed differential of a few miles an hour is a consequence of driving in heavy traffic and queues (all be it at speed) and if I ever get stopped I’ll politely explain that I’ve seen this somewhere in the Highway Code , not that I can quote it verbatim.

I believe that part of the Highway Code was removed a few years ago, although it was there when I passed my test. However passing on the left is not an offence on its own, and in queuing traffic I don't see how passing on the left is driving that falls below the expected standard.


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typefish
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:08
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I personally don't get four lane motorways, especially like my favourite one, the A1(M) between Alconbury and Norman Cross.

It almost feels criminal to not do at least 90mph on that stretch, a view not particularly supported by the local constabulary.

Following on from the flying cyclists's point - I've found that smart motorways with hard shoulders that have multiple personalities (sometimes they're in use, sometimes not) is especially hilarious when it comes to lane discipline.

Where else can you trundle up the hard shoulder going a lot faster than most other drivers, but yet keeping to the speed limit as displayed on the VSL...
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:13
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Rule 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.


MLOC drivers really p me off and some of the rubbish I have heard as excuses. FiL " the left lane gets to full of debris or I drive at 70 so no one should want to overtake me" BiL " its easier than keep pulling in, if I stay in one lane its safer" Cousin in law " the left lane is for lorries"


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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:14
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Highway code is only overtake on right, with the caveat that "in congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right."

Well, traffic was congested, albeit only in lane 3 and 4. So I will take that as tacit approval.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:19
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 14:14) *
Highway code is only overtake on right, with the caveat that "in congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right."

Well, traffic was congested, albeit only in lane 3 and 4. So I will take that as tacit approval.


So would I


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Figaro
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 15:55
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QUOTE (typefish @ Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 14:08) *
Where else can you trundle up the hard shoulder going a lot faster than most other drivers, but yet keeping to the speed limit as displayed on the VSL...


Exactly my point typefish. Now that someone has actually pointed out the text from the Highway Code (whether it still exists or not) the fact that the VSL is active implies congestion so razzing up the hard shoulder seems totally legit.
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Redivi
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 16:45
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On the occasions I've driven on the four-lane section of the M1 near Hemel Hempstead, lane discipline has been worse than the three-lane

As there isn't an actual middle lane, the MLOC members sit in both Lane 2 and 3

If I'm in Lane 1, I'm not going out to Lane 4 and back to pass the 60 mph hogger in Lane 3
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Broadsman
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 20:46
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4 lanes? WOW. Here in Norfolk we're lucky to get 2 going in the same direction. However, these 2 means that everything sits in the right hand lane and will not move over for anyone. I'll sit in the left lane and pull out to pass whatever is in front of me before returning to the left lane to pass plenty more and pull out again.

According to the HC I'm wrong for passing on the left, the majority of the rest on the road are also wrong for not returning to the left when clear to do so.

I'll continue to take my chances.
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The Slithy Tove
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 16:17
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Members of the MLOC seem to think that it's actually a Lane_N-1 Owners Club, where N is the number of lanes on the motorway. Thus on 4-lane motorways, lane 3 is the chosen venue for those numpties. At least it allows me one clear lane between them and me as I sail past in lane 1 :-). BTW, the excuse that lane 1 keeps disappearing doesn't really wash in many cases. E.g. M25 J10-7 is a continuous 15 mile 4 lane stretch, where lane 1 does not disappear up a slip road.
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Rallyman72
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 17:27
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And you get MLOC numpties doing 55mph - as a car/trailer combination is allowed 60mph on dual carriageways and is banned from the outside lane what option do they have? Yup, just one, sail up the inside on an unchanged trajectory.


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peterguk
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 21:21
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So are all you guys right, or the cop that pulled me is right?

Empty-ish motorway. 3 lanes.

I'm cruising at 70-75 in lane 1. Slowly approaching a middle lane driver. Speed differential not much. He refuses to move out of middle lane.

I make the mistake of carrying on in lane 1, passing the middle lane driver. Slow speed differential, didn't change lanes, no sudden movements etc.

A mile down the road i get pulled and invited to sit in back of unmarked car.

Was told categorically can only overtake on left in two cases: car turning right, and in slow moving queues of traffic.

I'm now awaiting my course invite.


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DancingDad
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 21:55
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Depends what the cop charges you with Pete, cannot be for undertaking.
But careless, dangerous or whatever catchall seems best is a possibility.
I look at it as in the Highway Code when I passed my test and what was drummed into me so while I would and do undertake on left in queues, even fastish moving ones when the motorway is a three or four lane queue, on an emptyish, I would pull out to lane three and then return to lane one.... possibly with a flash of main beams as I crossed behind but without the hard cut back in that many seem to favour, warranted or not.

Irritating thing is that while you may have performed a "dangerous" manoeuvre, the twassock from the MLOC who caused your dilemma has pottered on their way but could/should have been pulled, they are a total pain and IMO should be zero tolerance when there is plenty of room for them in lane 1.
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peterguk
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 22:14
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 22:55) *
Depends what the cop charges you with Pete, cannot be for undertaking.
But careless, dangerous or whatever catchall seems best is a possibility.


Careless.


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Unzippy
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 00:01
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In what way were you careless?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 05:00
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Driving falling below that of a careful and competent driver, it doesn’t have to be careless in the normal meaning of the word, the same as dangerous doesn’t have to be dangerous in the normal English meaning of the word.


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Unzippy
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 05:12
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A careful and competent driver wouldn't needlessly risk themselves by changing lane multiple times just to get past a car breaking the law.
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Spandex
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 07:19
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QUOTE (Unzippy @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 06:12) *
A careful and competent driver wouldn't needlessly risk themselves by changing lane multiple times just to get past a car breaking the law.

A careful and competent driver would understand the risk of undertaking is greater than that of adding four more lane changes to the hundreds they’ll perform on their journey.

I’ve done what Peterguk describes many times, but I’m not kidding myself that it was the safest option. Sheer frustration and a vain hope they’d get the hint are the only excuses I can offer. I have to say though, I’ve never seen anyone move back to lane 1 after I’ve done the 3 lane overtake, but I’ve seen a few move over when they’ve been undertaken, so maybe it does sometimes make them think.
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