Why don't people get four lane motorways |
Why don't people get four lane motorways |
Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:00
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
I was driving along the four lane section of the M40 this evening and everyone had assumed their normal lane discipline.
Lane 1: NML, doing a speed of my choosing over 70mph. Lane 2: Dacia owners, and occasional other drivers who wish to drive at 60mph for some reason. Lane 3: Nose to tail 70mph. Lane 4: Nose to tail 75mph. Then you get to the three lane section and most people get back to not being idiots. Why the hell does this happen? Why do people not see they are turning a four lane motorway into a crappy two lane road? Before I get chewed out for undertaking, I have been in lane 4 and as someone who likes to leave approaching the highway code stopping distance in front of me rather than 5 metres as seems to be standard, you just end up with people pulling in front of you constantly as well as the obligatory panic braking every 30 seconds because a butterfly flew in front of someone at the next junction. No, much better to have my own exclusive lane. FWIW I was stopped by an undercover car many years ago for exactly this. Explained to the officers that I thought driving in the wacky races in the outside two lanes was more dangerous. And was then sent on my way with instructions not to bother them in future. So I know there is a risk of a clip around the ear. This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:07 |
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Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:00
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Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:24
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
......Then you get to the three lane section and most people get back to not being idiots. ……….. Que? Visit some of the 3 lane motorways I use, plenty of idiots on them. Usually plenty of MLOC in lane two, often being overtaken by lorries in lane 1. Though I agree otherwise, regular on Birmingham VSL sections on M6 and M42 Hard shoulder open for business, toddle along that rather then indulge in the nose to tail in outer lanes and often find myself undertaking because I am in an empty lane. Can't say I agree with undertaking at speed but can't say I don't do it either. Am wary of the guy who may pull over without indicators or looking though, left lane is a blindspot to many. Main reason is simply that I have comfortable stopping distance that I can control. My other habit, not to overtake per se but for similar reason is to hit the far left lane whenever speed restrictions apply, VSL or roadworks. Far easier to toddle along at 45-50 in a 50 limit then run nose to tail in outer lanes at 55. I always want stopping distance, saved me on more then one occasion when traffic suddenly stopped. This post has been edited by DancingDad: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:25 |
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Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 10:58
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 375 Joined: 8 Feb 2006 Member No.: 4,803 |
I’m the same DD, I do a lot of VSL in Midlands and I often head for lane 1 for the steadier state and less stressful driving. Undertaking with a speed differential of a few miles an hour is a consequence of driving in heavy traffic and queues (all be it at speed) and if I ever get stopped I’ll politely explain that I’ve seen this somewhere in the Highway Code , not that I can quote it verbatim. This might need up going one of two ways via the attitude test but in 25 years of driving about 25k per year I’ve never ever once been pulled over anyway!
I’ve often said to myself that if I end up in a motorway pile up through not leaving enough space for stopping it would be hard to live with myself as it’s so obvious to predict and they are all too often the cause of daily delays. Backwards through a hedge on a deserted country road would be a different kind of accident to have to explain and live with |
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Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:01
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I’m the same DD, I do a lot of VSL in Midlands and I often head for lane 1 for the steadier state and less stressful driving. Undertaking with a speed differential of a few miles an hour is a consequence of driving in heavy traffic and queues (all be it at speed) and if I ever get stopped I’ll politely explain that I’ve seen this somewhere in the Highway Code , not that I can quote it verbatim. I believe that part of the Highway Code was removed a few years ago, although it was there when I passed my test. However passing on the left is not an offence on its own, and in queuing traffic I don't see how passing on the left is driving that falls below the expected standard. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:08
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 28 Mar 2014 From: Corby Member No.: 69,758 |
I personally don't get four lane motorways, especially like my favourite one, the A1(M) between Alconbury and Norman Cross.
It almost feels criminal to not do at least 90mph on that stretch, a view not particularly supported by the local constabulary. Following on from the flying cyclists's point - I've found that smart motorways with hard shoulders that have multiple personalities (sometimes they're in use, sometimes not) is especially hilarious when it comes to lane discipline. Where else can you trundle up the hard shoulder going a lot faster than most other drivers, but yet keeping to the speed limit as displayed on the VSL... |
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Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:13
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Rule 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake. MLOC drivers really p me off and some of the rubbish I have heard as excuses. FiL " the left lane gets to full of debris or I drive at 70 so no one should want to overtake me" BiL " its easier than keep pulling in, if I stay in one lane its safer" Cousin in law " the left lane is for lorries" -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:14
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Highway code is only overtake on right, with the caveat that "in congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right."
Well, traffic was congested, albeit only in lane 3 and 4. So I will take that as tacit approval. |
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Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 13:19
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Highway code is only overtake on right, with the caveat that "in congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right." Well, traffic was congested, albeit only in lane 3 and 4. So I will take that as tacit approval. So would I -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 15:55
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 375 Joined: 8 Feb 2006 Member No.: 4,803 |
Where else can you trundle up the hard shoulder going a lot faster than most other drivers, but yet keeping to the speed limit as displayed on the VSL... Exactly my point typefish. Now that someone has actually pointed out the text from the Highway Code (whether it still exists or not) the fact that the VSL is active implies congestion so razzing up the hard shoulder seems totally legit. |
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Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 16:45
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
On the occasions I've driven on the four-lane section of the M1 near Hemel Hempstead, lane discipline has been worse than the three-lane
As there isn't an actual middle lane, the MLOC members sit in both Lane 2 and 3 If I'm in Lane 1, I'm not going out to Lane 4 and back to pass the 60 mph hogger in Lane 3 |
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Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 20:46
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,013 Joined: 17 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,735 |
4 lanes? WOW. Here in Norfolk we're lucky to get 2 going in the same direction. However, these 2 means that everything sits in the right hand lane and will not move over for anyone. I'll sit in the left lane and pull out to pass whatever is in front of me before returning to the left lane to pass plenty more and pull out again.
According to the HC I'm wrong for passing on the left, the majority of the rest on the road are also wrong for not returning to the left when clear to do so. I'll continue to take my chances. |
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Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 16:17
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,283 Joined: 5 Jan 2012 Member No.: 52,178 |
Members of the MLOC seem to think that it's actually a Lane_N-1 Owners Club, where N is the number of lanes on the motorway. Thus on 4-lane motorways, lane 3 is the chosen venue for those numpties. At least it allows me one clear lane between them and me as I sail past in lane 1 :-). BTW, the excuse that lane 1 keeps disappearing doesn't really wash in many cases. E.g. M25 J10-7 is a continuous 15 mile 4 lane stretch, where lane 1 does not disappear up a slip road.
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Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 17:27
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,562 Joined: 14 Jul 2005 From: No longer on a train Member No.: 3,385 |
And you get MLOC numpties doing 55mph - as a car/trailer combination is allowed 60mph on dual carriageways and is banned from the outside lane what option do they have? Yup, just one, sail up the inside on an unchanged trajectory.
-------------------- The accident was caused by cockpit thrombosis - a dangerous clot between seatback and steering wheel ...
1. Read this first 2. Nip Wizard Parking tickets - council - 0, Rallyman - 1 |
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Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 21:21
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
So are all you guys right, or the cop that pulled me is right?
Empty-ish motorway. 3 lanes. I'm cruising at 70-75 in lane 1. Slowly approaching a middle lane driver. Speed differential not much. He refuses to move out of middle lane. I make the mistake of carrying on in lane 1, passing the middle lane driver. Slow speed differential, didn't change lanes, no sudden movements etc. A mile down the road i get pulled and invited to sit in back of unmarked car. Was told categorically can only overtake on left in two cases: car turning right, and in slow moving queues of traffic. I'm now awaiting my course invite. -------------------- |
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Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 21:55
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
Depends what the cop charges you with Pete, cannot be for undertaking.
But careless, dangerous or whatever catchall seems best is a possibility. I look at it as in the Highway Code when I passed my test and what was drummed into me so while I would and do undertake on left in queues, even fastish moving ones when the motorway is a three or four lane queue, on an emptyish, I would pull out to lane three and then return to lane one.... possibly with a flash of main beams as I crossed behind but without the hard cut back in that many seem to favour, warranted or not. Irritating thing is that while you may have performed a "dangerous" manoeuvre, the twassock from the MLOC who caused your dilemma has pottered on their way but could/should have been pulled, they are a total pain and IMO should be zero tolerance when there is plenty of room for them in lane 1. |
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Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 22:14
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Depends what the cop charges you with Pete, cannot be for undertaking. But careless, dangerous or whatever catchall seems best is a possibility. Careless. -------------------- |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 00:01
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,006 Joined: 29 Oct 2013 Member No.: 66,323 |
In what way were you careless?
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 05:00
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Driving falling below that of a careful and competent driver, it doesn’t have to be careless in the normal meaning of the word, the same as dangerous doesn’t have to be dangerous in the normal English meaning of the word.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 05:12
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,006 Joined: 29 Oct 2013 Member No.: 66,323 |
A careful and competent driver wouldn't needlessly risk themselves by changing lane multiple times just to get past a car breaking the law.
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 07:19
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 972 Joined: 9 Oct 2016 Member No.: 87,665 |
A careful and competent driver wouldn't needlessly risk themselves by changing lane multiple times just to get past a car breaking the law. A careful and competent driver would understand the risk of undertaking is greater than that of adding four more lane changes to the hundreds they’ll perform on their journey. I’ve done what Peterguk describes many times, but I’m not kidding myself that it was the safest option. Sheer frustration and a vain hope they’d get the hint are the only excuses I can offer. I have to say though, I’ve never seen anyone move back to lane 1 after I’ve done the 3 lane overtake, but I’ve seen a few move over when they’ve been undertaken, so maybe it does sometimes make them think. |
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