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FightBack Forums _ News / Press Articles _ The 'willing to go to jail to avoid speeding' thread

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 09:48
Post #1390080

Maybe rather than keep starting posts we can put them into one as a warning to others

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/white-van-man-caught-speed-12687206


And from the archives under the status of legendary
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bike-camera-speeding-ticket-465870

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/11/chris-huhne-vicky-pryce

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=120916

Posted by: Jlc Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 10:20
Post #1390089

And the latest volunteer made a promising start with reasonable queries.

Posted by: southpaw82 Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 12:24
Post #1390136

I was tempted to use my Bluestone 42 meme but couldn’t be arsed from my phone.

Posted by: 122basy Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 16:43
Post #1390204

Mr Quas must have been the first member here to tempt the jailer:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/speed-cheat-trapped-by-web-boast-whbcqcwwwb8


Jammer case, jailed

https://northyorkshire.police.uk/news/man-jailed-for-perverting-the-course-of-justice-after-using-speed-detection-jammer/

Another Jammer, gulty

https://northyorkshire.police.uk/news/laser-jammer-driver-found-guilty-perverting-course-justice/

Jammer has a suspended sentnce on this occasion:
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/sheffield-driver-caught-using-laser-jammer-device-to-dodge-speed-cameras-in-north-yorkshire-1-8836618

Posted by: DancingDad Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 20:35
Post #1390616

QUOTE (122basy @ Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 17:43) *
.....Jammer case, jailed...……...


Seems cars were dismantled to find the jammer in all the jammer cases ???

Seems a bit extreme to find a black box mounted on the bumper rolleyes.gif

Posted by: 122basy Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 21:17
Post #1390633

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 21:35) *
QUOTE (122basy @ Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 17:43) *
.....Jammer case, jailed...……...


Seems cars were dismantled to find the jammer in all the jammer cases ???

Seems a bit extreme to find a black box mounted on the bumper rolleyes.gif

Not really. The evidence needs to be recovered and the systems have more internal components than external...except for the LT400. Even then the LT400 has wiring, control and display within the vehicle. Unless you get the devices out with some form of magical power the vehicle needs to be dismantled.

Posted by: Tancred Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 22:06
Post #1390647

This one was a driving instructor who tried to present a modified GPS track to show he wasn't speeding:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-11938711

I think the thread is a good idea as there's clearly been quite a few people on here who don't understand how serious it is and don't understand the extreme reaction they get when they suggest it.

Posted by: 122basy Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 13:36
Post #1390811

QUOTE (Tancred @ Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 23:06) *
This one was a driving instructor who tried to present a modified GPS track to show he wasn't speeding:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-11938711

I think the thread is a good idea as there's clearly been quite a few people on here who don't understand how serious it is and don't understand the extreme reaction they get when they suggest it.

Oh forgot about Mr Richards.

http://www.eveshamjournal.co.uk/news/13347862.display/. This report is on the committal hearing but he was eventually convicted of 2 counts of perverting justice at Worcester Crown Court. The papers didn't seem interested in the case after the jury found him guilty. Same trick, fiddled with the GPS data that had been created after the speeding events.

Posted by: notmeatloaf Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 19:23
Post #1396412

The GPS one always seems a strange one for me.

I know we have posters on here who think the police will accept a thirty second snippet and just say case closed.

My guess is they would ask for the entire journey as a complete piece of evidence. and suddenly you are falsifying a huge amount of data, with a corresponding huge number of ways for it to be proven incorrect.

It seems one of those things that is almost guaranteed not to work and equally guaranteed to be perfect evidence for PCoJ.

Posted by: typefish Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 20:50
Post #1396431

QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 20:23) *
My guess is they would ask for the entire journey as a complete piece of evidence. and suddenly you are falsifying a huge amount of data, with a corresponding huge number of ways for it to be proven incorrect literally handing the police every single instance of you speeding


Fixed...?

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 08:12
Post #1396482

https://leamingtonobserver.co.uk/news/speeding-ticket-scammers-sentenced-7322/

Summary, a couple made speeding offences 'go away' by arranging for keepers to name the wrong driver, the couple then replied as that person, innocent people were then convicted, not exactly a complex scam!

I wonder if any action is/was taken on the keepers.

Posted by: cp8759 Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 16:52
Post #1396718

QUOTE (typefish @ Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 21:50) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 20:23) *
My guess is they would ask for the entire journey as a complete piece of evidence. and suddenly you are falsifying a huge amount of data, with a corresponding huge number of ways for it to be proven incorrect literally handing the police every single instance of you speeding


Fixed...?

GPS data would not be admissible as evidence of excess speed.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 20:46
Post #1397743

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/manager-caught-speeding-five-times-1769814
The truly bizarre! Fabricated a bizarre scenario including claiming to be blackmailed, seems to have got so caught up in his fabrication he didn’t know when to stop.

Posted by: DancingDad Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 14:40
Post #1397985

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 21:46) *
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/local-news/manager-caught-speeding-five-times-1769814
The truly bizarre! Fabricated a bizarre scenario including claiming to be blackmailed, seems to have got so caught up in his fabrication he didn’t know when to stop.

Weird.
One wonders what would have happened if the guy he put in the frame had not been in India ?

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 23 Jul 2018 - 19:46
Post #1401661

Happy to stitch up his Landlord who also has dementia, what a lovely guy....
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/speeding-driver-tried-blame-disabled-14930198

Posted by: samthecat Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 10:19
Post #1401813

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 23 Jul 2018 - 20:46) *
Happy to stitch up his Landlord who also has dementia, what a lovely guy....
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/speeding-driver-tried-blame-disabled-14930198


He is...

Did you not read what his barrister said:

"the dad-of-four is a "productive member of society" and stressed he pleaded guilty at the first opportunity"

I suppose he produced a certain amount of admin for the Courts and Police! As to pleading guilty at the first opportunity wouldn't that have been when he received the 172? tongue.gif

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 11:12
Post #1401831

Indeed, his Barrister seems to have glossed over the "He has a somewhat extensive history of offending." as noted by the prosecutor.

Posted by: DancingDad Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 13:10
Post #1401859

I like the linked story.
Pretended to be his brother.
Worth 6 months in jail.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/uninsured-driver-caught-police-pretended-14702722

Posted by: ManxRed Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 13:46
Post #1401879

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 14:10) *
I like the linked story.
Pretended to be his brother.
Worth 6 months in jail.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/uninsured-driver-caught-police-pretended-14702722


It would have been a piece of p*ss to escape though.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6376929/Prisoner-pretended-to-be-twin-brother-to-escape.html

Posted by: Redivi Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 15:14
Post #1401938

QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 20:23) *
My guess is they would ask for the entire journey as a complete piece of evidence. and suddenly you are falsifying a huge amount of data, with a corresponding huge number of ways for it to be proven incorrect.


Dashcams store the most recent 4 to 8 hours and continually overwrite the oldest files unless they've been saved as events

By the time the police ask for the data for an entire journey, it will be long gone

They've asked me to retain a memory card in case it's needed for a prosecution and agreed that they'll disregard any other files

Posted by: peterguk Fri, 3 Aug 2018 - 09:41
Post #1404619

THREE Bradford men, including a cab driver, have avoided immediate jail time, after admitting paying someone else to take care of a speeding fine for them.

The men, Mohammed Yasin, 57, Masawar Ali, 52, and Mohammed Banaras, 36, all passed off their notice of intended prosecution from the police to a third party, who filled out the form on their behalf.

But the police became suspicious when the same name, Sharjeel Jelani, cropped up on a number of forms, with different addresses – using similar handwriting. The real Mr Jelani faced magistrates’ court in two of the incidents, and received a county count judgment against his name for unpaid fines.


Yasin of Hastings Place, Ali, of Ambleside Avenue, and Banaras, of Westfield Road, all pleaded guilty to one count each of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, and were sentenced to five months in prison, suspended for two years. They must also complete the maximum 300 hours of unpaid work in the next 12 months.

Prosecutor Jeremy Barton told Bradford Crown Court that the men, who did not know one another, had tried to “avoid prosecution” through the scheme, which had ended up affecting victim Mr Jelani’s finances and ability to insure a vehicle.

The men had been travelling between 30 and 40mph in 30 zones when they were caught by speed cameras.

Judge Colin Burn said it was a “blatant attempt to defraud road traffic enforcement and therefore the justice system”.

Nadim Bashir for Yasin, who was caught speeding on December 12, 2014, on the A6177, said he faced losing the car he used as a private hire driver if he got points on his licence, panicked and paid someone £150. Shufqat Khan for Ali, who was caught speeding on the A647, on April 21, 2015, said he had been concerned about the impact on his job at a tyre garage and paid someone £80 out of “sheer stupidity”. David Bradshaw for Banaras, who was caught speeding on Thornton Road on August 3, 2015, said it had been a “foolish act”.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/16395073.mohammed-yasin-masawar-ali-and-mohammed-banaras-sentenced-over-paying-someone-to-take-care-of-speeding-fine/?ref=mr&lp=3


Posted by: southpaw82 Fri, 3 Aug 2018 - 10:31
Post #1404633

QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 3 Aug 2018 - 10:41) *
and received a county count judgment against his name for unpaid fines.

rolleyes.gif

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 14:17
Post #1407966

Ok a bit more than speeding, and going to jail anyway, but lets throw petrol on the fire anyway!

Quote of the day goes to

QUOTE
Patrick Mason, prosecuting, said that during the pursuit on May 15, "if there was a traffic regulation, he broke it".


http://www.yeovilexpress.co.uk/news/16411824.eliot-kelly-of-taunton-avoids-jail-for-driving-offences-and-perverting-the-course-of-justice/

Posted by: peterguk Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 11:24
Post #1415609

Business director, 58, tried to dodge a speeding fine by giving police a photo of an innocent man in CANADA who looked like her husband - but avoids jail so she can look after her family.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6140001/Business-director-58-tried-dodge-speeding-fine-giving-police-photo-innocent-man.html

Posted by: Ocelot Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 18:55
Post #1415727

QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 12:24) *
Business director, 58, tried to dodge a speeding fine by giving police a photo of an innocent man in CANADA who looked like her husband - but avoids jail so she can look after her family.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6140001/Business-director-58-tried-dodge-speeding-fine-giving-police-photo-innocent-man.html


Another example of a woman not going to jail when a man would.

Posted by: Jlc Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 18:22
Post #1423616

A new entry - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-45802293

QUOTE
A driver who tried to dodge a speeding fine by pretending to be his dead brother has been jailed.
Silburn Campbell, who has never passed his driving test, was clocked driving his mother's Mercedes at 37mph in a 30mph zone in 2014, Essex Police said.
Police received correspondence stating Kenneth Campbell was behind the wheel at the time of the offence, which was captured by a camera in Epping.
He "pleaded guilty" but it was later found he had died in 2001.
Essex Police wrote to the vehicle's registered keeper asking for the identity of the driver, and received responses stating it was Kenneth Campbell. Later, a guilty plea was entered by post.
The matter was heard in court in Kenneth Campbell's absence in March 2015, and he was given three penalty points and fined £150.
Several weeks later, police said Silburn Campbell posed as his dead brother and called the court asking for extra time to pay the fine.
But he gave his late brother's National Insurance number which confirmed he had died in February 2001.
Campbell, 54, of Elmer Road, Catford, in south-east London, denied completing the forms using his brother's details when he was interviewed by Essex Police.
But he did admit having a provisional driving licence and never passing his driving test.
He was charged with perverting the course of justice and pleaded guilty at Chelmsford Crown Court on 4 July.
Campbell was sentenced on 25 September at Basildon Crown Court to three months in prison.

Posted by: 666 Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 18:45
Post #1423619

QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 19:22) *
A new entry - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-45802293

QUOTE
A driver who tried to dodge a speeding fine by pretending to be his dead brother has been jailed.
Silburn Campbell, who has never passed his driving test, was clocked driving his mother's Mercedes at 37mph in a 30mph zone in 2014, Essex Police said.
Police received correspondence stating Kenneth Campbell was behind the wheel at the time of the offence, which was captured by a camera in Epping.
He "pleaded guilty" but it was later found he had died in 2001.
Essex Police wrote to the vehicle's registered keeper asking for the identity of the driver, and received responses stating it was Kenneth Campbell. Later, a guilty plea was entered by post.
The matter was heard in court in Kenneth Campbell's absence in March 2015, and he was given three penalty points and fined £150.
Several weeks later, police said Silburn Campbell posed as his dead brother and called the court asking for extra time to pay the fine.
But he gave his late brother's National Insurance number which confirmed he had died in February 2001.
Campbell, 54, of Elmer Road, Catford, in south-east London, denied completing the forms using his brother's details when he was interviewed by Essex Police.
But he did admit having a provisional driving licence and never passing his driving test.
He was charged with perverting the course of justice and pleaded guilty at Chelmsford Crown Court on 4 July.
Campbell was sentenced on 25 September at Basildon Crown Court to three months in prison.


So he’d got clean away, until he asked for time to pay. Genius!

Posted by: jdh Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 08:51
Post #1423725

QUOTE (666 @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 19:45) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 19:22) *
A new entry - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-45802293

QUOTE
A driver who tried to dodge a speeding fine by pretending to be his dead brother has been jailed.
Silburn Campbell, who has never passed his driving test, was clocked driving his mother's Mercedes at 37mph in a 30mph zone in 2014, Essex Police said.
Police received correspondence stating Kenneth Campbell was behind the wheel at the time of the offence, which was captured by a camera in Epping.
He "pleaded guilty" but it was later found he had died in 2001.
Essex Police wrote to the vehicle's registered keeper asking for the identity of the driver, and received responses stating it was Kenneth Campbell. Later, a guilty plea was entered by post.
The matter was heard in court in Kenneth Campbell's absence in March 2015, and he was given three penalty points and fined £150.
Several weeks later, police said Silburn Campbell posed as his dead brother and called the court asking for extra time to pay the fine.
But he gave his late brother's National Insurance number which confirmed he had died in February 2001.
Campbell, 54, of Elmer Road, Catford, in south-east London, denied completing the forms using his brother's details when he was interviewed by Essex Police.
But he did admit having a provisional driving licence and never passing his driving test.
He was charged with perverting the course of justice and pleaded guilty at Chelmsford Crown Court on 4 July.
Campbell was sentenced on 25 September at Basildon Crown Court to three months in prison.


So he’d got clean away, until he asked for time to pay. Genius!
Which makes the "they're only in it for the money" argument appear stronger.

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 09:40
Post #1423746

Not really, it's just that when asked to submit relevant information to that request he gave the game away.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 12:44
Post #1431586

A quite laughable attempt this one!
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/man-awaits-sentencing-for-comical-bid-to-lie-way-out-of-speeding-charges-37494726.html

3 NIP's managed to commit PCOJ a total of 7 times for them, he's even worse at lying than driving it seems.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:07
Post #1432264

And another, the old 'it was a foreign driver' routine..... multiple times.

https://www.inyourarea.co.uk/news/liar-sentenced-after-trying-to-avoid-speeding-fines/

2 years in this case.

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 30 Nov 2018 - 11:38
Post #1438441

Gave a false name for 5 offences and then defended it in court, I think on that basis he got off lightly with an 8 months sentence.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/tech-auto/automotive/company-director-jailed-after-caught-speeding-in-customised-white-range-rover-five-times-in-month/30/11/

Posted by: southpaw82 Fri, 30 Nov 2018 - 12:01
Post #1438450

QUOTE
PC Michael Martin from the City of London Police said: “This case shows how seriously we take traffic offences and that nobody is above the law.

“Serial offenders will be brought before the courts to face the consequences of their actions which can’t just be swept under the carpet.

“Speeding can endanger not just the driver’s life but also other law-abiding road users and will not be tolerated.

“Today’s sentencing illustrates just how severe your punishment can be, not only if you continuously break the speed limit, but also if you waste police time by providing false information and not owning up to your actions.

“Failure to comply with a request to identify the driver of a vehicle at the time of an offence, or giving false information, is viewed by the courts as an attempt to undermine the fundamental process of law, the repercussions of which Mr Khan is now realising.”


The usual holier than thou claptrap from the police I see.

1. He was not tried or sentenced for a traffic offence, so I don’t see the relevance of the seriousness or otherwise with which the COLP takes traffic offences.

2. Speeding may not be tolerated but again, he was not on trial for speeding.

3. He was not sentenced for speeding or wasting police time.

4. Failure to name the driver is not, so far as I know, viewed by the courts as an attempt to undermine the process of the law, neither was he sentenced for such.

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 30 Nov 2018 - 12:20
Post #1438452

I agree (I'd read those and groaned), and of course all the robo 'copy and paste' reports are spewing the same. But then how often do you tell posters not to go to a Police officer for advice on the law!

Posted by: southpaw82 Fri, 30 Nov 2018 - 12:25
Post #1438457

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 30 Nov 2018 - 12:20) *
I agree (I'd read those and groaned), and of course all the robo 'copy and paste' reports are spewing the same. But then how often do you tell posters not to go to a Police officer for advice on the law!

About as often as I tell clients!

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 5 Dec 2018 - 08:27
Post #1439702

Rather than slowing down to avoid known cameras he chose to deface his front number plate to look like another....4 months suspended, rather over dramatised reporting though.

https://www.harrogateadvertiser.co.uk/news/crime/boroughbridge-man-changed-number-plate-to-dodge-speeding-fines-and-left-innocent-driver-to-take-blame-1-9476059


Posted by: cp8759 Wed, 5 Dec 2018 - 19:46
Post #1439911

£500 for getting a couple of incorrect NIPs? The chap in Plymouth must be laughing all the way to the bank!

Posted by: Redivi Wed, 5 Dec 2018 - 21:33
Post #1439942

£500 is a bit high but £200 would have been reasonable
After receiving two NIPs he would have been put to some inconvenience proving his car wasn't there and reporting the clone

Can that figure be used as a benchmark for data protection claims arising from PPC misreads and double-dips ?

Posted by: Richy320 Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 13:02
Post #1441382

But judge Paul Worsley QC ................ slammed the businessman for the “inconvenience” he had caused to a “wholly-innocent man who must have got the shock of his life” when he received the two speeding tickets.

So does this mean every time a motorist gets an erroneous speeding ticket from a "safety camera" they'll get a cheque for £500?

Thought not.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 13:04
Post #1441384

No, because there is no criminality as a cause. (plus it works out at £250/ticket anyway).

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 3 Jan 2019 - 12:41
Post #1447100

Money can't buy you common sense it seems!
Early admission seems to have got him off lightly, 3 months suspended for 2 years.

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/count-alexy-kimmenade-tried-blame-2353785

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 06:05
Post #1450043

And two more volunteers, one named an innocent party, the other gave fake details, both were very minor speeding offences
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/17349478.two-sussex-drivers-jailed-for-lying-about-speeding-offences/

And an interesting editorial comment that jailing them is pointless and they should just be made to pay for the investigation (in one case it's clear that would probably be at a fiver a week for life!)
https://www.crawleynews24.co.uk/lets-just-waste-more-money-on-imprisoning-people-for-speeding-and-lying/

Posted by: cp8759 Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 13:12
Post #1450848

Operation Pinocchio, they've got to get a prize for that.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:05
Post #1453725

Multiple speeding offences, multiple people blamed, multiple cases of PCoJ! !0 months suspended for 2 years, seems light compared to the Huhne sentence.

https://www.chichester.co.uk/news/crime/man-banned-from-roads-after-blaming-chichester-business-partner-for-speeding-1-8777823

Posted by: Fredd Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:18
Post #1453731

At a guess, it was light because he fessed up to the PCoJ straight away.

Posted by: DancingDad Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 17:01
Post #1461075

This one is of the "let's mount a jammer where the police can see it" school of thought.
3 months and £1,500 as a result.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6691991/Michael-Twizell-Dewsbury-jailed-tricking-speed-cameras-jamming-device-BMW.html

Posted by: Churchmouse Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 16:29
Post #1461470

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 17:01) *
This one is of the "let's mount a jammer where the police can see it" school of thought.
3 months and £1,500 as a result.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6691991/Michael-Twizell-Dewsbury-jailed-tricking-speed-cameras-jamming-device-BMW.html

No indication in the Daily Fail (as per normal) as to what he did that had a tendency to pervert, and which was or was intended to pervert, the course of public justice, which had followed the occurence of an event from which it could reasonably have been expected that an investigation would follow.

Nor whether he was found guilty or (more likely) he had admitted the charges.

--Churchmouse

Posted by: peterguk Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 18:58
Post #1461517

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 16:29) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 17:01) *
This one is of the "let's mount a jammer where the police can see it" school of thought.
3 months and £1,500 as a result.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6691991/Michael-Twizell-Dewsbury-jailed-tricking-speed-cameras-jamming-device-BMW.html

No indication in the Daily Fail (as per normal) as to what he did that had a tendency to pervert, and which was or was intended to pervert, the course of public justice, which had followed the occurence of an event from which it could reasonably have been expected that an investigation would follow.

Nor whether he was found guilty or (more likely) he had admitted the charges.

--Churchmouse


Presumably he either fitted or paid to have fitted the laser jammer.

There's at least a case or two a year of PCOJ charge when caught using a laser jammer by a speed camera.

Posted by: Fredd Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 19:02
Post #1461518

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 16:29) *
No indication in the Daily Fail (as per normal) as to what he did that had a tendency to pervert, and which was or was intended to pervert, the course of public justice, which had followed the occurence of an event from which it could reasonably have been expected that an investigation would follow.

Nor whether he was found guilty or (more likely) he had admitted the charges.

--Churchmouse

He https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/bmw-driver-who-used-laser-jammer-on-yorkshire-road-jailed-for-perverting-course-of-justice-1-9588259. And since he was caught by virtue of causing a speed camera to generate an error code, it wouldn't have been that hard to make the case that it was PCoJ.

Posted by: DancingDad Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:18
Post #1461564

I didn't think the Mail article was that bad, which is about as far I would go on defending them.
Didn't join all the dots maybe.

Police regard active interference with speed cameras as interfering with an investigation, ie interfering with the course of justice.... courts seem to agree.
A laser jammer, while other uses are possible is an active device that interferes with certain types of camera.
He had one fitted and was found from the footage when the camera generated an error.
Only thing the police had to do is prove was if it was deliberate for all the elements of PCOJ to be in place.
And likely he self incriminated within interviews regarding the deliberate part.
Even if he didn't, the court would be entitled to decide it was deliberate if there was no other reason for the device to be fitted, ie, that it wasn't simply being used to open automatic garage doors.
Not that the court needed to make that decision as he pled guilty.

Posted by: typefish Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 22:19
Post #1461627

QUOTE (Fredd @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 19:02) *
And since he was caught by virtue of causing a speed camera to generate an error code, it wouldn't have been that hard to make the case that it was PCoJ.


Are there any other offences out there that result on a charge of PCoJ if someone chooses to not pay a [private] third party company for the privilege of sitting in a room with other willing occupants - even if what they were doing at the time was not an offence?

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:18) *
Police regard active interference with speed cameras as interfering with an investigation, ie interfering with the course of justice.... courts seem to agree.


What counts as an investigation? Is it an investigation into the conduct of that driver, or the conduct of everyone - and at what time? If someone didn't know that they were under investigation of a sexual offence and they washed their clothes, is that PCoJ?

Plus, if video footage is being kept, there's nothing to say that the video itself cannot be used to derive speed.

/rant

Posted by: DancingDad Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 23:00
Post #1461646

QUOTE (typefish @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 22:19) *
......
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 20:18) *
Police regard active interference with speed cameras as interfering with an investigation, ie interfering with the course of justice.... courts seem to agree.


What counts as an investigation? Is it an investigation into the conduct of that driver, or the conduct of everyone - and at what time? If someone didn't know that they were under investigation of a sexual offence and they washed their clothes, is that PCoJ?

Plus, if video footage is being kept, there's nothing to say that the video itself cannot be used to derive speed.

/rant


Not a clue on the investigation logic, except that the courts seem to agree with the police viewpoint.
I suppose that the thoughts are that they are gathering evidence of crimes and that anyone interfering with that would be guilty, of that part at least.

There seems like a long history of police objecting to people interfering with speed traps.
Was that people were obstructing a police constable in the course of their duty (the Prevention of Crimes Amendment Act 1885.)
That ended AA patrolmen saluting members to warn of speed traps back in 1910. They stopped saluting instead when there were cops about, cannot be charged for inaction.
Drivers have been prosecuted under same act for flashing headlamps to warn other drivers.
But that charge does depend on it being a real copper with the camera and cannot be applied with civvie operators in a camera van or automatic cameras.
So the Old Bill have found another way.
Can't blame them in some cases.
One a motorcyclist who thought they had been clocked, stopped in full view of the van and covered their back number plate, then rode past.
Another a guy with a jammer drove past a camera at speed with hand and middle finger extended to the camera...that must have looked good when shown to the court.

As for calculating the speed, yes, possible but as a certain MP has just found, the speeding charge takes second place if you try to avoid it.

Posted by: Fredd Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 23:24
Post #1461654

QUOTE (typefish @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 22:19) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 19:02) *
And since he was caught by virtue of causing a speed camera to generate an error code, it wouldn't have been that hard to make the case that it was PCoJ.


Are there any other offences out there that result on a charge of PCoJ if someone chooses to not pay a [private] third party company for the privilege of sitting in a room with other willing occupants - even if what they were doing at the time was not an offence?

What are you smoking? Whether it ultimately proceeds to prosecution, or whether the driver decides to accept their culpability and accept the offer of a course as an alternative, is irrelevant. The fact is that this twat was deliberately disrupting equipment that was being used to acquire evidence of drivers breaking the law. It certainly wasn't some innocent mistake.

Posted by: Churchmouse Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 23:33
Post #1461658

The devices apparently have legal uses, so it is not illegal to fit them to a vehicle. But in any case, as we have discussed many times before, the act that is PCoJ must follow the event which was or was likely to result in an investigation, so the fitting of the device could not have been PCoJ. I suppose the argument could have been that PCoJ act was the "use" of the device following the "event" of speeding (assuming they could prove the speeding without the defeated speed detection device), which was reasonably expected to result in an investigation.

The "middle finger" guy removed the jammer device from his car--that was an act following an event likely to be investigated. The biker covered his number plate--again, an act following the event. Maybe this guy did something like that?

“I advise anyone who may have a similar device fitted to their vehicle to think about the consequences of using such a device and strongly recommend that they remove it from their vehicle to avoid a future prosecution.”

If there had been the occurrence of an event, which it could reasonably have been expected that an investigation would follow, doing that would be PCoJ. Thanks, TC Forth.

Posted by: DancingDad Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 00:28
Post #1461676

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 23:33) *
The devices apparently have legal uses, so it is not illegal to fit them to a vehicle. But in any case, as we have discussed many times before, the act that is PCoJ must follow the event which was or was likely to result in an investigation, so the fitting of the device could not have been PCoJ. I suppose the argument could have been that PCoJ act was the "use" of the device following the "event" of speeding (assuming they could prove the speeding without the defeated speed detection device), which was reasonably expected to result in an investigation.

……...


I take your point on the legal uses and perhaps if someone could show that it was fitted for a legal purpose, to signal automatic doors on their garage for instance (one of the legal uses) they could have watered down the part of PCOJ that says it must be intentional, a deliberate act.
Otherwise it is a little like having a crowbar in your hand outside someone else's back door.
There are many legal reasons for having one but unless you are helping the owner break in it is difficult to think of one in that instance.
Going equipped is the charge in that case, not burglary as it has not happened but attempted burglary would be in the frame.
In that respect does it actually matter if speeding or not?
They fitted a metaphorical crowbar that automatically causes a laser speed device to fail, that is the crime, not actually speeding and I cannot see if before or after the event has any bearing.



Posted by: typefish Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 01:25
Post #1461678

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 23:00) *
Can't blame them in some cases.

Indeed. I don't mind PCoJ being used when there is an actual attempt to pervert (not merely frustrate) the course of justice; to dispose of evidence (or hypothetically even re-activate ECU speed limiters on the QT)

QUOTE (Fredd @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 23:24) *
Whether it ultimately proceeds to prosecution, or whether the driver decides to accept their culpability and accept the offer of a course as an alternative, is irrelevant. The fact is that this **** was deliberately disrupting equipment that was being used to acquire evidence of drivers breaking the law. It certainly wasn't some innocent mistake.

I wasn't questioning its relevancy, I was more questioning the absurdity of the entire situation. A non-criminal resolution versus time in the clink - all because of a light source. You make an interesting point regarding disrupting equipment - just how far of a leap is it to jump from this to apps such as Waze, where one can - almost in real time - see where users have noticed enforcement activity?

Or dare I even say it, the suggestion of the 'unsigned' route?

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 23:33) *
The devices apparently have legal uses, so it is not illegal to fit them to a vehicle. But in any case, as we have discussed many times before, the act that is PCoJ must follow the event which was or was likely to result in an investigation, so the fitting of the device could not have been PCoJ. I suppose the argument could have been that PCoJ act was the "use" of the device following the "event" of speeding (assuming they could prove the speeding without the defeated speed detection device), which was reasonably expected to result in an investigation.


Indeed. And then I come to remember that inchoate offences are a thing :/

Posted by: DancingDad Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 12:57
Post #1461773

QUOTE (typefish @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 01:25) *
......….I wasn't questioning its relevancy, I was more questioning the absurdity of the entire situation. A non-criminal resolution versus time in the clink - all because of a light source. You make an interesting point regarding disrupting equipment - just how far of a leap is it to jump from this to apps such as Waze, where one can - almost in real time - see where users have noticed enforcement activity?
...

Fine lines often make a difference in law.
One is a deliberate attempt to avoid detection, the other is simply taking advantage of readily available information, no different to learning where the cameras are on a regular route.
Very difficult to prove any intent to break the law by using a phone or satnav device to show camera location.
A lot simpler when a device is fitted which seems to have the sole purpose of defeating speed cameras.


Posted by: cp8759 Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 17:26
Post #1461893

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 12:57) *
A lot simpler when a device is fitted which seems to have the sole purpose of defeating speed cameras.

As I've mentioned previously, the solution is special paint that (incidentally) absorbs such radiation.

Posted by: Korting Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 18:00
Post #1461908

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 17:26) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 12:57) *
A lot simpler when a device is fitted which seems to have the sole purpose of defeating speed cameras.

As I've mentioned previously, the solution is special paint that (incidentally) absorbs such radiation.

I take it such special paint is not available from the likes of B&Q, Homebase or Wickes.

Posted by: Roverboy Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 21:32
Post #1461981

My beef with all of this is that courts / judges seem to treat someone trying to dodge a minor offense way more harshly than way more serious crimes such as muggings and burglary.

And I'm sure if some want examples I can find them.

Posted by: southpaw82 Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 21:41
Post #1461985

QUOTE (Roverboy @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 21:32) *
My beef with all of this is that courts / judges seem to treat someone trying to dodge a minor offense way more harshly than way more serious crimes such as muggings and burglary.

And I'm sure if some want examples I can find them.

The courts don’t treat PCOJ as a minor offence though.

Posted by: cp8759 Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 23:42
Post #1462026

QUOTE (Korting @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 18:00) *
I take it such special paint is not available from the likes of B&Q, Homebase or Wickes.

No you'd have to get it from a car respray place I presume, once someone perfects it.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 09:59
Post #1462076

Google ‘Vantablack’ but you’ll still have headlamps, number plate and a windscreen that will happily reflect, so the benefit of a ‘stealth’ paint job are probably marginal.

Posted by: Fredd Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 10:55
Post #1462093

There's also the minor problem that if they suddenly found that their equipment couldn't get a reading from one of dozens they'd targeted during that session, you could expect a visit from plod just the same as if you'd used a jammer. And as Rookie says, there'll be returns from plenty of other parts of the vehicle, which'll just heighten their suspicions.

Posted by: typefish Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 11:51
Post #1462112

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 12:57) *
One is a deliberate attempt to avoid detection, the other is simply taking advantage of readily available information, no different to learning where the cameras are on a regular route.
Very difficult to prove any intent to break the law by using a phone or satnav device to show camera location.
A lot simpler when a device is fitted which seems to have the sole purpose of defeating speed cameras.


I'd say using something like Waze to figure out where police activity would be, especially when you know you may be over the drink drive limit, is pretty intentional

Posted by: cp8759 Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 12:54
Post #1462152

QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 10:55) *
There's also the minor problem that if they suddenly found that their equipment couldn't get a reading from one of dozens they'd targeted during that session, you could expect a visit from plod just the same as if you'd used a jammer. And as Rookie says, there'll be returns from plenty of other parts of the vehicle, which'll just heighten their suspicions.

They'd be hard-pressed to show that your car was coated in vantalack because you wanted to evade speed detection, rather than because it makes your car look cool. Thinking about it, it would look pretty cool.

Posted by: DancingDad Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 14:21
Post #1462179

QUOTE (typefish @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 11:51) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 12:57) *
One is a deliberate attempt to avoid detection, the other is simply taking advantage of readily available information, no different to learning where the cameras are on a regular route.
Very difficult to prove any intent to break the law by using a phone or satnav device to show camera location.
A lot simpler when a device is fitted which seems to have the sole purpose of defeating speed cameras.


I'd say using something like Waze to figure out where police activity would be, especially when you know you may be over the drink drive limit, is pretty intentional

Like I said, fine lines of distinction.
May be intentional but proving it is a different matter.
If I use my satnav to navigate through country lanes is it an attempt to avoid the police or is it simply having a quiet and pleasant drive home?
You can see people on motorways speeding past and braking in time with when my satnav says there is a camera.... regular sight on the M6 in the VSL sections.
It is easy to see that they are flouting the speed limit and using onboard kit to brake in time for the cameras.
But proving it is with intent ? Or simply forgetting their speed and hit the brakes cos the gantry sign reminded them of the limit?
That satnavs have POI where cameras are reported or more real time systems like Waze allow someone to speed with a measure of impunity, they also have a function of reminding you what speed limits apply so can be argued they help drivers who may be a little inattentive to stay within the law.
Intent or just an added safety feature?




Posted by: jdh Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 14:29
Post #1462183

QUOTE (typefish @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 11:51) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 12:57) *
One is a deliberate attempt to avoid detection, the other is simply taking advantage of readily available information, no different to learning where the cameras are on a regular route.
Very difficult to prove any intent to break the law by using a phone or satnav device to show camera location.
A lot simpler when a device is fitted which seems to have the sole purpose of defeating speed cameras.


I'd say using something like Waze to figure out where police activity would be, especially when you know you may be over the drink drive limit, is pretty intentional

One of my then-employees took a back road home from the pub, another car failed to give way at a junction and drove into the side of him. There was minimal damage, nothing more than a paint scuff on my employees vehicle but the other driver phoned the police to report the incident to get a number for the insurance claim. As luck would have it an officer was nearby and attended anyway, usual swapping of details and a quick "blow in the bag" and on their way except my employee blew over the limit. He was done for drink driving and became an ex-employee as a result.

Posted by: Fredd Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 17:28
Post #1462261

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 12:54) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 10:55) *
There's also the minor problem that if they suddenly found that their equipment couldn't get a reading from one of dozens they'd targeted during that session, you could expect a visit from plod just the same as if you'd used a jammer. And as Rookie says, there'll be returns from plenty of other parts of the vehicle, which'll just heighten their suspicions.

They'd be hard-pressed to show that your car was coated in vantalack because you wanted to evade speed detection, rather than because it makes your car look cool. Thinking about it, it would look pretty cool.

biggrin.gif
QUOTE (Surrey Nanosystems)
Can I apply Vantablack to my car?

Though this would undoubtedly result in an amazing looking motor, unfortunately the limitations of Vantablack in respect of direct impact or abrasion would make this an impractical proposition for most people. It would also be incredibly expensive.

Yes, very easy to explain away.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 18:10
Post #1462280

It would however be ideal for visiting the restaurant at the end of the universe, you may even get it stolen from the parking lot........ ‘so black’ ‘that light just seems to fall into it’.......

Posted by: andy_foster Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 19:27
Post #1462305

QUOTE (typefish @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 22:19) *
Are there any other offences out there that result on a charge of PCoJ if someone chooses to not pay a [private] third party company for the privilege of sitting in a room with other willing occupants - even if what they were doing at the time was not an offence?


Presumably the point that you are seeking to make is that we perhaps ought to be aware of the apparent irony that many motorists openly avoid prosecution by paying private companies for speed awareness courses, which have no basis in law, and that the police take a £35 cut from them, but when a motorist seeks to avoid liability for his crimes using his own scam, not endorsed by the police and not funding 'jobs for the boys', then he is a serious criminal?

I would however like to believe that no matter how fundamentally corrupt I might consider the application of speed awareness courses to be, the police's view was that the motorist in this case perverted the course of justice, rather than that the cheeky sod tried to diddle them out of 'their' £35. Also, taking your post as it was written, motorists are entitled not to pay the 'bribe' requested by the police, but if they do not take the course they are liable to be processed on a manner with actual basis in law, such as an offer of a fixed penalty or prosecution for the motoring offence.

Posted by: cp8759 Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 16:50
Post #1462525

QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 17:28) *
QUOTE (Surrey Nanosystems)
Can I apply Vantablack to my car?

Though this would undoubtedly result in an amazing looking motor, unfortunately the limitations of Vantablack in respect of direct impact or abrasion would make this an impractical proposition for most people. It would also be incredibly expensive.

Yes, very easy to explain away.

Give it a few years, technology will improve, prices will come down...

Posted by: Fredd Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 17:26
Post #1462539

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 16:50) *
Give it a few years, technology will improve, prices will come down...

Seems optimistic given the glacial progress in developing IR absorbent coatings over the last 30 years or so. By the time this stuff becomes viable for such trivial applications as defeating laser speed guns we'll all be driving cars that automatically obey speed limits, with no override, anyway.

Posted by: cp8759 Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 17:59
Post #1462548

QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 17:26) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 16:50) *
Give it a few years, technology will improve, prices will come down...

Seems optimistic given the glacial progress in developing IR absorbent coatings over the last 30 years or so. By the time this stuff becomes viable for such trivial applications as defeating laser speed guns we'll all be driving cars that automatically obey speed limits, with no override, anyway.

I refer you once more to VRM AB 171. Just because manufacturers keep creating more and more stupid features (such as electronic handbrakes), does not mean I'll ever drive one.

Posted by: jdh Mon, 25 Feb 2019 - 16:56
Post #1465122

https://www.spaldingtoday.co.uk/news/six-month-jail-term-for-man-speeding-in-spalding-9062871/

He was jailed for six months and banned from driving for 15 months.

Recorder Jacob Hallam, passing sentence, told him "When you were stopped by the police you chose to lie and gave a false name.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 25 Feb 2019 - 18:02
Post #1465158

Without trying to get myself into hot water, is it just me that thinks that the minority ethnicity’s are over represented in these cases? Certainly they are not the only ones but the numbers seem disproportionate with the total populations.

Posted by: Fredd Mon, 25 Feb 2019 - 19:11
Post #1465185

Sampling bias?

I really don't know, but in the absence of more rigorous analysis I'd be reluctant to assume that the media present a statistically sound impression of the racial prevalence of this kind of behaviour.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 25 Feb 2019 - 20:32
Post #1465230

Possibly, I’m certainly emphasising that this is based on reported cases.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 10:00
Post #1465373

And another
4 month suspended, 31 year old claimed a (probably fictitious) Indian friend was driving. Was on 9 points so perhaps that lead her to the brain fart.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/recruitment-consultants-suspended-jail-sentence-1587159

I tried avoiding using the Daily Fail copy.....but it has a bit more info
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6743843/Recruitment-consultant-claimed-friend-India-driving-speeding-car-spared-jail.html

Plead guilty so presumably sentence was discounted from 6 months making Onasanya's sentence seem even further out of kilter.

Posted by: DancingDad Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 10:05
Post #1465375

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 10:00) *
...….Plead guilty so presumably sentence was discounted from 6 months making Onasanya's sentence seem even further out of kilter.

Onasanya is being released after 28 days I see.... some sort of early release scheme.
Which makes her three months even more risable.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 10:35
Post #1465386

The early release is standard for all sentences (assuming they do nothing wrong in jail), she'll be on Parole with strict conditions for the rest of the sentence.

Posted by: DancingDad Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 10:52
Post #1465390

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 10:35) *
The early release is standard for all sentences (assuming they do nothing wrong in jail), she'll be on Parole with strict conditions for the rest of the sentence.


I must be out of touch.
I knew that release after 2/3rds of sentence (parole and conditions etc applied) was normal.
But 1/3rd ????

Posted by: cp8759 Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 13:40
Post #1465477

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 10:35) *
The early release is standard for all sentences (assuming they do nothing wrong in jail), she'll be on Parole with strict conditions for the rest of the sentence.

According to https://www.gov.uk/leaving-prison

If the prisoner has a fixed term (determinate) sentence
A prisoner serving a determinate sentence is normally released automatically halfway through their sentence.

If their sentence is 12 months or more, they’ll be released on probation.


How she got away with only serving 28 days I'm not really sure. I also take it she won't be on probation, but may be recalled to prison if she offends again.

Posted by: big_mac Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 14:20
Post #1465489

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 13:40) *
How she got away with only serving 28 days I'm not really sure. I also take it she won't be on probation, but may be recalled to prison if she offends again.

Home Detention Curfew for the rest.
Huhne and Price had the same, after 1/4 of their sentence.

Posted by: cp8759 Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 20:13
Post #1465607

QUOTE (big_mac @ Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 14:20) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 13:40) *
How she got away with only serving 28 days I'm not really sure. I also take it she won't be on probation, but may be recalled to prison if she offends again.

Home Detention Curfew for the rest.
Huhne and Price had the same, after 1/4 of their sentence.

Does she get an exemption if there's an all-night debate in Parliament?

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 6 Mar 2019 - 03:46
Post #1468005

Taxi driver used a dead mans details twice (one speeding, one RLC).

I kind of like the Judges approach here of remanding in custody for a short time (so he gets some experience of a jail) and then suspending the sentence (2x2 months to run consecutively).
https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/taxi-driver-tried-dodge-points-2600582

Posted by: Mono Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 13:51
Post #1470863

Two for one here

https://www.cumbria.police.uk/News/News-Articles/2019/March/Man-jailed-for-perverting-the-course-of-justice-over-speeding-offence.aspx

Can't find any more detail, but they must have been charged with something else as well as you can't get a driving ban for PCOJ.

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 14:47
Post #1470882

QUOTE (Mono @ Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 13:51) *
Two for one here

https://www.cumbria.police.uk/News/News-Articles/2019/March/Man-jailed-for-perverting-the-course-of-justice-over-speeding-offence.aspx

Can't find any more detail, but they must have been charged with something else as well as you can't get a driving ban for PCOJ.

You can be banned for any offence under s 146 of the Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000.

Posted by: Mono Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 15:07
Post #1470892

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 14:47) *
You can be banned for any offence under s 146 of the Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000.

Everyday's a school day!

Posted by: DancingDad Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 20:29
Post #1470995

QUOTE (Mono @ Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 13:51) *
Two for one here

https://www.cumbria.police.uk/News/News-Articles/2019/March/Man-jailed-for-perverting-the-course-of-justice-over-speeding-offence.aspx

Can't find any more detail, but they must have been charged with something else as well as you can't get a driving ban for PCOJ.

One assumes it was a case of asking a mate to take the points and mate saying yes.

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 12:01
Post #1474527

We may soon have some more for the wall of infamy
http://smarthighways.net/arrests-made-over-speed-camera-tampering/
3 arrested for using laser jammers (not sure I'd use the headline speed camera tampering although its not actually incorrect I guess).

Posted by: DancingDad Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 21:11
Post #1474669

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 29 Mar 2019 - 12:01) *
We may soon have some more for the wall of infamy
http://smarthighways.net/arrests-made-over-speed-camera-tampering/
3 arrested for using laser jammers (not sure I'd use the headline speed camera tampering although its not actually incorrect I guess).

Unusual for the Press but I'd have said correct, strictly speaking it is the speed camera tampering that is the reason for PCOJ.

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 3 Apr 2019 - 10:55
Post #1475611

Not speeding but careless driving.

The reporting isn't 100% clear but it appears she was convicted of that offence and impersonating a police office (at the scene - lie one).

This lead to an appeal (on what basis sin't clear) where she used a forged letter from a GP as part of defence/mitigation (lie two).

Once it was realised it was forged she then tried to claim the forgery was perpetrated by someone else at the surgery (lie three).

Convicted of PCOJ for forging and presenting that letter.
Got away with 12 months suspended for 2 years.
https://www.timesandstar.co.uk/news/17539089.mum-who-forged-doctors-letter-narrowly-avoids-jail/

The reporting of the original hearing for careless and impersonating.
https://www.timesandstar.co.uk/news/17013776.fine-for-woman-who-pretended-to-be-police-officer/

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 5 Apr 2019 - 05:01
Post #1476066

Another laser jammer case,North Yorks Police stating they have seen a significant increase in use.

2 months (not suspended), seems that 2 months is the new 9 months! (sentence after a guilty plea)

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/17552000.ferrari-salesman-nicholas-burke-jammed-speed-camera-with-laser-device/

Police press release
https://northyorkshire.police.uk/news/jail-for-former-supercar-salesman-who-tried-to-use-laser-jammer-to-dodge-speeding-fines/

Posted by: southpaw82 Fri, 5 Apr 2019 - 14:27
Post #1476186

North Yorks seem very keen on PCOJ for jammers and the like. They seem a bit like Cumbria and the use of this forum.

Posted by: Churchmouse Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 13:45
Post #1476404

However, they've also done a good job of proving to the public that they work.

I'm sure fitting a speed measurement jamming device is (and should be) somehow illegal, but PCoJ relates to acts undertaken after a potential enforcement event, so it is not clear to me why they thought they had a strong case against this motorist. It may be that the driver did something after the event in question, but this has not been reported in the links above.

--Churchmouse

Posted by: DancingDad Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 15:04
Post #1476421

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 14:45) *
However, they've also done a good job of proving to the public that they work.

I'm sure fitting a speed measurement jamming device is (and should be) somehow illegal, but PCoJ relates to acts undertaken after a potential enforcement event, so it is not clear to me why they thought they had a strong case against this motorist. It may be that the driver did something after the event in question, but this has not been reported in the links above.

--Churchmouse


We've had this discussion before in this thread http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=120923&view=findpost&p=1461564

Posted by: Churchmouse Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 19:19
Post #1476475

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 16:04) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 14:45) *
However, they've also done a good job of proving to the public that they work.

I'm sure fitting a speed measurement jamming device is (and should be) somehow illegal, but PCoJ relates to acts undertaken after a potential enforcement event, so it is not clear to me why they thought they had a strong case against this motorist. It may be that the driver did something after the event in question, but this has not been reported in the links above.

--Churchmouse


We've had this discussion before in this thread http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=120923&view=findpost&p=1461564

We have, but we don't really know what the driver was accused of doing. Neither the police nor the newspaper seem very concerned about establishing (or revealing) the facts. This was another guilty plea, wasn't it? Yes. No need to prove the allegation in court if they plead guilty.

--Churchmouse

Posted by: DancingDad Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 20:03
Post #1476487

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 20:19) *
......….We have, but we don't really know what the driver was accused of doing. Neither the police nor the newspaper seem very concerned about establishing (or revealing) the facts. This was another guilty plea, wasn't it? Yes. No need to prove the allegation in court if they plead guilty.

--Churchmouse

We are never going to see a legal decision from a court with a guilty plea in the equation.
Or much of an explanation from the police except the solemnly delivered adages about treating speeding and those who seek to avoid justice seriously.
Personally I don't see that the culprit has to have done anything except fit a device that can jam speed measurements without good reason.
The police/CPS go into court saying that they believe the intent was to interfere with equipment and thus evade speed limits and lawful enforcement.
Accused is on the back foot without good reason and police stance will be that there is no lawful reason for it to be fitted therefore intent is obvious.
They must prove intent but I cannot see that beyond reasonable doubt is not achievable.


Posted by: southpaw82 Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 21:36
Post #1476512

Intent can be inferred.

Posted by: DancingDad Sun, 7 Apr 2019 - 10:07
Post #1476581

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 22:36) *
Intent can be inferred.



Ta.
Wasn't too sure how far inferred would take it but cannot see why it would not be if nothing was produced to show an alternative, legal use.

Posted by: PASTMYBEST Sun, 7 Apr 2019 - 10:51
Post #1476594

What's the difference between a burglar running away to prevent being caught and someone fitting a scanner to prevent being caught?

Posted by: southpaw82 Sun, 7 Apr 2019 - 11:15
Post #1476600

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 7 Apr 2019 - 11:07) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 22:36) *
Intent can be inferred.



Ta.
Wasn't too sure how far inferred would take it but cannot see why it would not be if nothing was produced to show an alternative, legal use.

It’s s 8 of the Criminal Justice Act 1967

QUOTE
A court or jury, in determining whether a person has committed an offence,—
(a) shall not be bound in law to infer that he intended or foresaw a result of his actions by reason only of its being a natural and probable consequence of those actions; but

(b) shall decide whether he did intend or foresee that result by reference to all the evidence, drawing such inferences from the evidence as appear proper in the circumstances.


So long as the court is sure that the defendant had the necessary intent by looking at the circumstances the intent can be proven. This is where a “no comment” interview can bite you in the bum.

Posted by: notmeatloaf Sun, 7 Apr 2019 - 15:18
Post #1476640

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 7 Apr 2019 - 11:51) *
What's the difference between a burglar running away to prevent being caught and someone fitting a scanner to prevent being caught?

In general, PCoJ isn't meant to be an alternative to an aggravating factor of the original offence.

With laser jammers, you haven't made the speeding offence worse, so you can't just receive a more severe sentence for that. You've committed two separate offences - PCoJ has come to light as a result of speeding, but neither is an aggravating factor for the other.

E.g if you were driving at 5mph over the limit versus 100mph over the limit, it wouldn't aggravate PCoJ unless, possibly, the prosecution could show you routinely drive at high speeds and so the PCoJ was to potentially avoid charges more serious than speeding.

Posted by: Churchmouse Mon, 8 Apr 2019 - 10:19
Post #1476729

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 21:03) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sat, 6 Apr 2019 - 20:19) *
......….We have, but we don't really know what the driver was accused of doing. Neither the police nor the newspaper seem very concerned about establishing (or revealing) the facts. This was another guilty plea, wasn't it? Yes. No need to prove the allegation in court if they plead guilty.

--Churchmouse

We are never going to see a legal decision from a court with a guilty plea in the equation.
Or much of an explanation from the police except the solemnly delivered adages about treating speeding and those who seek to avoid justice seriously.
Personally I don't see that the culprit has to have done anything except fit a device that can jam speed measurements without good reason.
The police/CPS go into court saying that they believe the intent was to interfere with equipment and thus evade speed limits and lawful enforcement.
Accused is on the back foot without good reason and police stance will be that there is no lawful reason for it to be fitted therefore intent is obvious.
They must prove intent but I cannot see that beyond reasonable doubt is not achievable.

It's not the intent that I have a problem with; it is the timing issue. If someone fitted a laser jammer and never drove anywhere, they would never commit PCoJ, because the offence requires a "course of justice" to have been initiated--prior to an act to "pervert" it. I am aware that "fitting a laser jammer" is almost the classic example of PCoJ in road traffic cases (apart from the "take the points" scenario), but I have yet to see the facts laid out in a way that squares with the wording of the offence. Indeed, the CPS guidelines seem to support my view that the course of justice refers to a particular investigation.

A course of justice is “... conduct which relates to judicial proceedings, civil or criminal, whether or not they have yet been instituted but which are within the contemplation of the wrong-doer whose conduct was designed to affect the outcome of them. That conduct includes giving false information to the police with the object of among other things putting the police on a false trail ...” R v Selvage and Morgan [1982]

I don't think the enforcement of speeding laws--even in the general climate of suspicion in which all motorists are viewed as potential criminals these days--could be considered a "course of justice" under that definition. It could be argued that "using" an already fitted device constitutes the "act" intended to pervert the course of justice (whenever the vehicle happens to be driven in a manner that could result in a criminal investigation in the future), and if someone has been convicted of PCoJ in court after a trial, I'd bet that was the prosecution's argument, but I have yet to see this confirmed in writing.

Posted by: typefish Mon, 8 Apr 2019 - 13:17
Post #1476759

QUOTE (CPS Guidance)
The offence of Perverting the Course of Justice is committed when an accused:
  • does an act or series of acts;
  • which has or have a tendency to pervert; and
  • which is or are intended to pervert;
  • the course of public justice.

QUOTE (CPS Guidance)
The course of justice must be in existence at the time of the act(s). The course of justice starts when:
  • an event has occurred, from which it can reasonably be expected that an investigation will follow;
  • investigations which could/might bring proceedings have actually started; or
  • proceedings have started or are about to start.


To me this reads that throwing away the jammer/shifter would be illegal (as we'd all expect) - as if you're using it in the vicinity of a lidar-type speed detection device, there's almost a 100% certainty of someone with no sense of humour feeling rather put out and giving a call to their colleagues.

But as I'm sure I've asked before, what counts as an investigation? I presume for any PCOJ charge to be successful, it would mean that everyone who is in the beam of a lidar device is immediately under investigation.

Right?

Posted by: southpaw82 Mon, 8 Apr 2019 - 13:29
Post #1476763

QUOTE (typefish @ Mon, 8 Apr 2019 - 14:17) *
But as I'm sure I've asked before, what counts as an investigation? I presume for any PCOJ charge to be successful, it would mean that everyone who is in the beam of a lidar device is immediately under investigation.

Right?

Pretty much.

Posted by: DancingDad Mon, 8 Apr 2019 - 14:07
Post #1476775

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 8 Apr 2019 - 14:29) *
QUOTE (typefish @ Mon, 8 Apr 2019 - 14:17) *
But as I'm sure I've asked before, what counts as an investigation? I presume for any PCOJ charge to be successful, it would mean that everyone who is in the beam of a lidar device is immediately under investigation.

Right?

Pretty much.



As many of these seem to stem from driving past a camera, the police more then likely have photos to prove the investigation as well.

Posted by: Churchmouse Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 15:52
Post #1477017

QUOTE (typefish @ Mon, 8 Apr 2019 - 14:17) *
QUOTE (CPS Guidance)
The offence of Perverting the Course of Justice is committed when an accused:
  • does an act or series of acts;
  • which has or have a tendency to pervert; and
  • which is or are intended to pervert;
  • the course of public justice.

QUOTE (CPS Guidance)
The course of justice must be in existence at the time of the act(s). The course of justice starts when:
  • an event has occurred, from which it can reasonably be expected that an investigation will follow;
  • investigations which could/might bring proceedings have actually started; or
  • proceedings have started or are about to start.


To me this reads that throwing away the jammer/shifter would be illegal (as we'd all expect) - as if you're using it in the vicinity of a lidar-type speed detection device, there's almost a 100% certainty of someone with no sense of humour feeling rather put out and giving a call to their colleagues.

But as I'm sure I've asked before, what counts as an investigation? I presume for any PCOJ charge to be successful, it would mean that everyone who is in the beam of a lidar device is immediately under investigation.

Right?

I agree; the investigation begins when the LASER hits the vehicle (or the "speeding" vehicle comes into view of the "investigator", I suppose, if you want to be a stickler). Which is why, in my view, the act of fitting the device, prior to any enforcement or investigation having occurred, does not really seem to fit into the definition of the offence of PCoJ.

--Churchmouse

Posted by: Fredd Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 17:47
Post #1477035

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 16:52) *
Which is why, in my view, the act of fitting the device, prior to any enforcement or investigation having occurred, does not really seem to fit into the definition of the offence of PCoJ.

What does that have to do with this particular news item, then?

Posted by: DancingDad Wed, 10 Apr 2019 - 11:55
Post #1477160

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 16:52) *
.........I agree; the investigation begins when the LASER hits the vehicle (or the "speeding" vehicle comes into view of the "investigator", I suppose, if you want to be a stickler). Which is why, in my view, the act of fitting the device, prior to any enforcement or investigation having occurred, does not really seem to fit into the definition of the offence of PCoJ.

--Churchmouse

Probably better debating in the flame pit.
Being as at least some of these cases seem to have occurred after the device was spotted going through a speed trap, a little academic for those at least.
There was an event during an investigation, presumably proof and seemingly a guilty plea.

I would agree with you that fitting one does not automatically make it PCOJ but, as I have said before, anyone spotted with one on the road is on the back foot.
What other reason is it fitted for except with the intent to avoid being spotted speeding by a laser gun ?
The investigation you desire is ongoing, speed cameras are like fleas on a cat, live 24/7 all over the country.
Someone could easily show lack of intent if, for instance the device was not live, only triggered with a button and was (ostensibly) being used to open automatic garage doors.
But drive through a speed trap with the device live and that defence is also easily questioned.
Or if the automatic garage doors do not exist.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 17:18
Post #1477503

Not a press article but one from our forums
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=126710&st=0

Motorcyclist covered up his plate after being recorded speeding, 4 months suspended for 2 years following a failed defence attempt.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 29 Apr 2019 - 11:21
Post #1481341

4 months for PCOJ for giving his own brother's details when stopped (disqualified, no insurance)
Also 4 months for driving while disqualified (again!).
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/banned-driver-gave-brothers-name-16192404

Posted by: notmeatloaf Mon, 29 Apr 2019 - 21:22
Post #1481544

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 29 Apr 2019 - 12:21) *
4 months for PCOJ for giving his own brother's details when stopped (disqualified, no insurance)
Also 4 months for driving while disqualified (again!).
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/banned-driver-gave-brothers-name-16192404

"He said his client suffered from acute sleep apnoea which meant that he stopped breathing on occasions, a condition which would be difficult to manage in custody."

Oh, prison nurses can manage all sorts. "Here's a CPAP machine... enjoy."

Worst excuse ever, not even some guff about turning around his life.

Posted by: cp8759 Mon, 29 Apr 2019 - 23:00
Post #1481570

Well done to the judge for giving him consecutive, rather than concurrent sentences.

Posted by: DancingDad Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 09:26
Post #1481612

Not a PCOJ or jail but a rare (AFAIK) case of a council PCN getting someone into court and a fine resulting.
So perhaps deserves mention in this thread.
Woman falsifies a parking P&D ticket, cops a PCN and vehicle was removed by council.
Then she continues to c0ck it all up to the point where council pass it to police.
Who treat the P&D alteration as fraud.
£440 quid fine and £340 costs to save 9 quid on a parking fee.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6971673/Portsmouth-paralegal-Malikah-Richards-tries-fool-parking-wardens-Tipp-Ex-pays-800-fine.html

Posted by: southpaw82 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 10:56
Post #1481650

I don’t see what the relevance of her employment has to the matter, especially as she committed the offence before she was employed.

Posted by: DancingDad Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 11:38
Post #1481663

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 11:56) *
I don’t see what the relevance of her employment has to the matter, especially as she committed the offence before she was employed.


Daily Fail attention grabber biggrin.gif
Considering she seems to have also defaulted on a payment plan after the removal plus another 22 PCNs outstanding, does anyone else get the feeling there will be many more tears before this story is completed.

Posted by: cp8759 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 12:13
Post #1481677

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 11:56) *
I don’t see what the relevance of her employment has to the matter, especially as she committed the offence before she was employed.

Possibly because it's a position of trust, if I were using the services of a legal firm I wouldn't want a paralegal with a criminal conviction for fraud to have access to my personal or business data.

Posted by: southpaw82 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 16:27
Post #1481751

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 12:38) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 11:56) *
I don’t see what the relevance of her employment has to the matter, especially as she committed the offence before she was employed.


Daily Fail attention grabber biggrin.gif
Considering she seems to have also defaulted on a payment plan after the removal plus another 22 PCNs outstanding, does anyone else get the feeling there will be many more tears before this story is completed.

A bit like the “£30,000 Mercedes”? Perhaps when it was new...

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 13:13) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 11:56) *
I don’t see what the relevance of her employment has to the matter, especially as she committed the offence before she was employed.

Possibly because it's a position of trust, if I were using the services of a legal firm I wouldn't want a paralegal with a criminal conviction for fraud to have access to my personal or business data.

Same could be said of any employee really in many businesses really. Just because she’s a “paralegal” doesn’t mean she’s qualified in the all and “should have known better” which is how I read the reference. If it’s such an issue I’m sure the SRA will issue a prohibition in due course.

Posted by: cp8759 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 19:29
Post #1481804

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 17:27) *
Same could be said of any employee really in many businesses really. Just because she’s a “paralegal” doesn’t mean she’s qualified in the all and “should have known better” which is how I read the reference.

There are many businesses where you don't need any formal qualifications at all, but employers (and their clients / customers) won't want you if you've got a recent conviction for fraud or other dishonesty offences. That's how I saw it, more than the "should have known better" angle, but I take your point.

Posted by: southpaw82 Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 21:00
Post #1481818

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 20:29) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 17:27) *
Same could be said of any employee really in many businesses really. Just because she’s a “paralegal” doesn’t mean she’s qualified in the all and “should have known better” which is how I read the reference.

There are many businesses where you don't need any formal qualifications at all, but employers (and their clients / customers) won't want you if you've got a recent conviction for fraud or other dishonesty offences.

I agree.

Posted by: TryOut Tue, 7 May 2019 - 12:07
Post #1483134

...and still they come:

https://northyorkshire.police.uk/news/woman-laser-jammer-given-suspended-sentence-for-perverting-course-of-justice/


Posted by: Jlc Tue, 7 May 2019 - 12:34
Post #1483140

QUOTE (TryOut @ Tue, 7 May 2019 - 13:07) *
https://northyorkshire.police.uk/news/woman-laser-jammer-given-suspended-sentence-for-perverting-course-of-justice/

I can quite believe it was a device to help parking...

Posted by: DancingDad Tue, 7 May 2019 - 12:51
Post #1483143

QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 7 May 2019 - 13:34) *
QUOTE (TryOut @ Tue, 7 May 2019 - 13:07) *
https://northyorkshire.police.uk/news/woman-laser-jammer-given-suspended-sentence-for-perverting-course-of-justice/

I can quite believe it was a device to help parking...


Absolutely.
Means you can get to the parking spot quicker rolleyes.gif

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 8 May 2019 - 04:52
Post #1483353

Interesting background to the company selling the device.
https://www.laserjammertests.com/laserpropark.htm

Posted by: Churchmouse Thu, 9 May 2019 - 23:42
Post #1483930

I don't understand. The effectiveness of these devices has been repeatedly vouched for by no less an authority than Traffic Constable Andy Forth of the North Yorkshire Police, Traffic Bureau. They clearly work as advertised. The company should be rolling in dough (rather than having been struck off in 2009)...

--Churchmouse

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 30 May 2019 - 13:55
Post #1488822

Six months (not suspended) for deliberately naming someone who wasn't the driver and persisting in lies all the way to court.
https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/driver-who-lied-who-speeding-2916942

Posted by: ohnoes Fri, 31 May 2019 - 13:24
Post #1489058

Another one

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7069837/Motorist-tried-dodge-speeding-fine-inventing-character-caught-CCTV-act.html

Posted by: DancingDad Fri, 31 May 2019 - 20:16
Post #1489125

QUOTE (ohnoes @ Fri, 31 May 2019 - 14:24) *
Another one

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7069837/Motorist-tried-dodge-speeding-fine-inventing-character-caught-CCTV-act.html



That one deserved extra time for stupidity.
No fixed cameras on the Heartlands Parkway so would have been a camera van copping him head on.
Clear photo almost guaranteed.

Posted by: madbasshunter Fri, 31 May 2019 - 22:22
Post #1489159

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 31 May 2019 - 21:16) *
QUOTE (ohnoes @ Fri, 31 May 2019 - 14:24) *
Another one

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7069837/Motorist-tried-dodge-speeding-fine-inventing-character-caught-CCTV-act.html



That one deserved extra time for stupidity.
No fixed cameras on the Heartlands Parkway so would have been a camera van copping him head on.
Clear photo almost guaranteed.


Where was a dove when he needed it rolleyes.gif

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/28/speeding-driver-saved-divine-intervention-dove-obscures-face/



Posted by: Churchmouse Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 14:58
Post #1489621

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 31 May 2019 - 21:16) *
QUOTE (ohnoes @ Fri, 31 May 2019 - 14:24) *
Another one

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7069837/Motorist-tried-dodge-speeding-fine-inventing-character-caught-CCTV-act.html



That one deserved extra time for stupidity.
No fixed cameras on the Heartlands Parkway so would have been a camera van copping him head on.
Clear photo almost guaranteed.

If drivers can now be reliably identified from photographs in such cases, maybe there's longer any justification for a s.172...

--Churchmouse

Posted by: cp8759 Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 17:22
Post #1489661

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 15:58) *
If drivers can now be reliably identified from photographs in such cases, maybe there's longer any justification for a s.172...

--Churchmouse

Even if it's not an absolute necessity (the police could pull driving licence photos etc...), by far the most practical and cost effective way to identify the driver is a s172 letter.

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 03:46
Post #1490001

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 15:58) *
If drivers can now be reliably identified from photographs in such cases, maybe there's longer any justification for a s.172...

--Churchmouse

I'm sure if I crash into your car and do a runner you'd be quite happy there was no S172 for the Police to use to trace me as the driver? S172 predates the use of speed/traffic light cameras and will likely post date great photo's from those of the driver as well. Not withstanding we have no national database of driver photo's and the amount of effort and time and cost involved would be disproportionate anyway. Not your best thought out comment.

Posted by: Fredd Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 09:22
Post #1490038

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 04:46) *
Not withstanding we have no national database of driver photo's

Not unless you count the one that DVLA insist on populating for photocard licences, and that the police have access to.

Posted by: cp8759 Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 10:36
Post #1490055

QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 10:22) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 04:46) *
Not withstanding we have no national database of driver photo's

Not unless you count the one that DVLA insist on populating for photocard licences, and that the police have access to.

But it's an incomplete database: many people drive on EU licences, old paper licences etc...

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 11:03
Post #1490061

QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 10:22) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 04:46) *
Not withstanding we have no national database of driver photo's

Not unless you count the one that DVLA insist on populating for photocard licences, and that the police have access to.

I should have been clearer, they have a file of them, but its not a database that is searchable (using a photo and searching for a match)

Posted by: Churchmouse Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 11:51
Post #1490073

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 12:03) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 10:22) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 04:46) *
Not withstanding we have no national database of driver photo's

Not unless you count the one that DVLA insist on populating for photocard licences, and that the police have access to.

I should have been clearer, they have a file of them, but its not a database that is searchable (using a photo and searching for a match)

LOL. Facial recognition software is probably not a thing...

I was actually trying to get someone to provide the rationale used in Francis so I didn't have to look it up.

--Churchmouse


Posted by: andy_foster Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 19:02
Post #1492024

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 12:51) *
I was actually trying to get someone to provide the rationale used in Francis so I didn't have to look it up.


Assuming that you are referring to Francis v DPP (2004), off the top of my head it was that it was clearly Parliament's intention that s. 172 RTA 1988 and s. 12(1) RTOA 1988 be used in conjunction and that a signature was somehow 'information' within the meaning of s. 172.

If you are referring to O'Halloran and Francis v the UK, the rationale was somewhat more irrational.

Posted by: Churchmouse Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 12:16
Post #1492472

QUOTE (andy_foster @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 20:02) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 12:51) *
I was actually trying to get someone to provide the rationale used in Francis so I didn't have to look it up.


Assuming that you are referring to Francis v DPP (2004), off the top of my head it was that it was clearly Parliament's intention that s. 172 RTA 1988 and s. 12(1) RTOA 1988 be used in conjunction and that a signature was somehow 'information' within the meaning of s. 172.

If you are referring to O'Halloran and Francis v the UK, the rationale was somewhat more irrational.


Thanks, I was wondering to what extent the court's justification for ignoring ECHR Article 6 had been based on a government argument that it was not technologically possible to identify the culprit by photograpic means. I now see that the government had argued that "there was no obvious generally effective alternative to the power contained in section 172 and without such a power it would be impossible to investigate and prosecute traffic offences effectively," but it doesn't appear that the court had actually based any of its reasoning on that particular argument. In fact, the court ignored several other arguments as well, including the one which had noted that other European jurisdictions had found ways to prosecute bad drivers without violating Article 6, implying that the UK's approach was clearly not justified by necessity.

--Churchmouse

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 1 Jul 2019 - 07:04
Post #1496294

And another, claimed it was cloned plates, even changed the car to not match the camera photo's and blamed the local travelling community, finally coughed to the speeding and now tried for the perverting.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/17738334.driver-is-found-guilty-of-lying-to-try-and-evade-speeding-ticket/
Found guilty by the Jury, judge awaiting pre-sentencing reports.

Posted by: cp8759 Mon, 1 Jul 2019 - 13:49
Post #1496421

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 1 Jul 2019 - 08:04) *
finally coughed to the speeding...

I might have missed it but where does it say that?

Posted by: samthecat Tue, 2 Jul 2019 - 06:23
Post #1496568

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 1 Jul 2019 - 14:49) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 1 Jul 2019 - 08:04) *
finally coughed to the speeding...

I might have missed it but where does it say that?


Hidden via a link ..... https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/17735920.driver-says-wifes-illness-caused-him-to-own-up-to-speeding/

He did it, no he didn't..... Yes he did.

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 3 Jul 2019 - 16:45
Post #1496928

And another, lied about the driver identity, maintained all the way to court.

5 months suspended for 24 months, 180hrs community service and £300 costs to boot.
https://www.spiritfm.net/news/sussex-news/2905622/driver-convicted-for-lying-about-speeding/

Posted by: cp8759 Thu, 4 Jul 2019 - 20:05
Post #1497236

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 3 Jul 2019 - 17:45) *
And another, lied about the driver identity, maintained all the way to court.

5 months suspended for 24 months, 180hrs community service and £300 costs to boot.
https://www.spiritfm.net/news/sussex-news/2905622/driver-convicted-for-lying-about-speeding/

Operation Pinocchio laugh.gif

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 5 Jul 2019 - 05:42
Post #1497321

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 4 Jul 2019 - 21:05) *
Operation Pinocchio laugh.gif

At least it proves someone has a sense of humour! This isn't the first OP case, I think i've seen about half a dozen now, the Police are taking this more seriously.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 29 Jul 2019 - 06:51
Post #1503465

Roadside stop, gave details of a childhood friend, friend was subsequently arrested for failing to respond (presumably the address was wrong). Plead guilty to PCoJ and sentenced to an overnight curfew for 9 months.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen/1805060/moray-man-attempted-to-frame-childhood-friend-over-speeding-ticket/

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 10:46
Post #1504405

Not speeding but dangerous driving, stuck to a claim someone else was driving, 2 months in jail.
https://www.banburyguardian.co.uk/news/people/high-end-car-dealer-jailed-for-perverting-course-of-justice-1-9001087

Posted by: cp8759 Tue, 6 Aug 2019 - 12:14
Post #1505635

Fiona Onasanya: Former MP struck off as solicitor https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-49251372

Posted by: cabbyman Tue, 6 Aug 2019 - 18:55
Post #1505766

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/08/06/news/suspended-sentence-for-taxi-driver-who-tried-to-avoid-penalty-points-by-claiming-son-was-behind-wheel-1678328/

https://www.bishopsstortfordindependent.co.uk/news/suspended-sentences-for-former-airport-taxi-driver-and-wife-who-lied-about-speeding-9078671/

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 10:56
Post #1510571

Named a non existent person who he claimed to have given money to in order to accept his speeding 'points and fine'.

4 months suspended for 18.
https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/restaurant-owner-spared-jail-after-3169933

Pretty nuts as firstly he was only on 6 points and secondly he would have qualified for a course (assuming he hadn't done one in the preceding 3 years).

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 29 Aug 2019 - 09:43
Post #1511291

A policewoman who should surely have realised the implications was jailed for four months after trying to persuade her colleagues to drop a case against her partner.
End of her career as well obviously.

All for a offence where a fixed penalty was pretty certain to be offered (48 in a 30).

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/policewoman-jailed-after-trying-persuade-3260266

Posted by: morrisman Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 18:03
Post #1516427

Another laser jammer bloke - £6K + 7 month suspended sentence

https://northyorkshire.police.uk/news/dishonest-porsche-driver-6000-out-of-pocket-for-trying-to-evade-justice/


Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 05:15
Post #1516512

P.C. Forth is a busy chappy!

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 8 Oct 2019 - 11:26
Post #1520928

This one could get interesting....
It's alleged that certain members of the Irish Gardai were 'squaring' speeding tickets for certain people, either organised criminals or sports personalities, one to keep an eye on!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/14-garda-and-gaa-players-quizzed-over-squaring-of-road-traffic-offence-tickets-probe-38568440.html

Posted by: Waspeze Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 10:26
Post #1521383

Another one

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/17959656.landlord-tried-blame-former-tenant-speeding-ticket/





Posted by: Fredd Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 11:14
Post #1521389

Strangely that story seems to have disappeared.

Posted by: Waspeze Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 11:22
Post #1521390

Well that's disappointing.. I only make a couple of posts a year so this will not go down as one of my best :-)



Posted by: Steve_999 Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 11:55
Post #1521398

The Argus were pretty quick to take that story down - certainly within a couple of hours. Not available on Google history, but headline is viewable https://www.theargus.co.uk/search/?search=landlord+tried+blame+former+tenant.

Posted by: jdh Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 13:19
Post #1521430

A google of the name in the headline brings up another site with the story https://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/crime/man-convicted-after-blaming-hastings-speeding-offence-on-former-tenant-1-9100158

QUOTE
A man who blamed a speeding offence on his former tenant has been convicted of perverting the course of justice.

Ashfaq Asghar, 28, of Linden Road, Reading, Berkshire, was sentenced to eight months’ imprisonment, suspended for 24 months, and must carry out 300 hours of unpaid work after pleading guilty to the offence.
A Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) was sent to the registered keeper, Ashfaq Asghar, who nominated another driver who was subsequently convicted in his absence – he was fined £660 and had his licence endorsed with six points.

However, investigations revealed Asghar had provided false documents including a signed receipt for the vehicle. It was also revealed the copy of the passport he provided had been supplied by the nominated person when he rented a room from Asghar back in 2010. The conviction against this person was subsequently quashed.

Posted by: cp8759 Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 09:53
Post #1521595

The story loads for me on the Angus website?

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 09:56
Post #1521597

It does now, it didn't earlier, I suspect they found and error and pulled it while it was fixed.

'Angus' website, sounds like its for online steak purchases!

Posted by: Fredd Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 09:57
Post #1521598

Yes, it's back now. One wonders what there was in the original version that caused them to take it down so hastily. smile.gif

Posted by: Jlc Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 12:08
Post #1521648

QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 10:57) *
Yes, it's back now. One wonders what there was in the original version that caused them to take it down so hastily. smile.gif

"The 28-year-old raced past a speed camera at 39mph in a 30mph zone" - it oftens seems to be the most minor offences that end up like this...


Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 03:59
Post #1522884

A Special constable provided a falsified alibi for her (grown up) son to get off a speeding ticket, the son wasn't prosecuted for the PCOJ only for speeding (nor for the S172 offence of saying he wasn't the driver when he knew he was).

5 months jail term. Suspending the sentence seems to be being considered.

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/17964443.special-constable-karen-ravenscroft-jailed-sons-speeding-ticket/

Posted by: DancingDad Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 20:49
Post #1523115

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 04:59) *
A Special constable provided a falsified alibi for her (grown up) son to get off a speeding ticket, the son wasn't prosecuted for the PCOJ only for speeding (nor for the S172 offence of saying he wasn't the driver when he knew he was).

5 months jail term. Suspending the sentence seems to be being considered.

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/17964443.special-constable-karen-ravenscroft-jailed-sons-speeding-ticket/


Seems to be that she deliberately and provably falsified evidence.
But he managed to convince someone that he simply confused dates.
Nothing provable beyond poor recollection.

Posted by: cp8759 Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 16:55
Post #1523537

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 21:49) *
But he managed to convince someone that he simply confused dates.

The police might well not believe him, but that doesn't mean they can prove his guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 29 Oct 2019 - 08:14
Post #1525802

No jail sentence on this one, but a large fine and severe implications for her career.

An ambulance service manager falsified an exemption certificate to avoid a speeding rap.

£2000 fine and she's been demoted at work losing circa £15000 a year in salary, all for a fixed penalty.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/scotland/1007103/scottish-ambulance-service-boss-falsified-exemption-certificate-to-avoid-a9-speeding-fine/

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 19 Nov 2019 - 11:18
Post #1531276

Well sentences seem to be plummeting!

28 days for naming a driver that didn't exist, only a six month disqualification.
https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/11/15/driver-who-sped-at-75mph-along-brighton-seafront-jailed-for-pretending-it-was-imaginary-friend/

Those sentenced to 9m-1y must feel hard done by!

Posted by: DancingDad Tue, 19 Nov 2019 - 12:22
Post #1531316

Does seem to be out of step with previous.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 19 Nov 2019 - 15:47
Post #1531370

Well After a long time where the norm as circa 1 year, Ms Onasanya got just 3 months and now we have a 28 days...... I'm not aware in any change in sentencing guidelines.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 28 Nov 2019 - 09:21
Post #1533533

OK, not avoiding his own speeding rap.

A 'fixer' named fictitious drivers for a number of NIP recipients, 3.5 years (sorry the article is the Wail, but its the best available)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7724339/Fraudster-jailed-helping-dozen-dishonest-drivers-dodge-fines-penalty-points.html

A number of others convicted for using the fixer, sentences ranging from 3 to 8 months.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 9 Dec 2019 - 04:45
Post #1535909

Looks like we have another potential volunteer.
2 charges,
1/ Obtaining insurance without declaring previous endorsements
2/ PCOJ for claiming his BMW had been sold to someone (the police couldn't trace and will seek to prove is fictitious) in response to an S172 notice.
Person concerned is a Turkish national, but presumably not a hard up migrant as he's employed a fairly pricey barrister to defend him.

https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/18085047.yeter-acar-appeared-truro-crown-court/

Interestingly someone with the same name, Turkish, living in the same area and owning a BMW was in the news last year for rather different reasons.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/businessman-fears-life-after-attack-2286914

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 11:12
Post #1536397

And another....
3 speeding offences in quick succession (although the article gets tied up in knots and gets to 9 somehow), named an acquaintance who only had a provisional, suspect they ended up summonsed for S172 and speeding.
8 months plus 3 months each for other offences running concurrently. I think we need an appeal to set sentencing!
https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/18083161.driver-lied-police-speeding/

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 13 Dec 2019 - 09:59
Post #1536791

Thick and fast in time for them to have porridge as Christmas dinner!

Two partners in a company 'swapped points' with the added hiccup of involving a spouse in the scheme.
16 and 10 weeks respectively and a suspended 6 week sentence for the spouse.
https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/well-known-car-dealers-jailed-3629205

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 10:50
Post #1544094

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 9 Dec 2019 - 04:45) *
Looks like we have another potential volunteer.
2 charges,
1/ Obtaining insurance without declaring previous endorsements
2/ PCOJ for claiming his BMW had been sold to someone (the police couldn't trace and will seek to prove is fictitious) in response to an S172 notice.
Person concerned is a Turkish national, but presumably not a hard up migrant as he's employed a fairly pricey barrister to defend him.

https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/18085047.yeter-acar-appeared-truro-crown-court/

Interestingly someone with the same name, Turkish, living in the same area and owning a BMW was in the news last year for rather different reasons.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/businessman-fears-life-after-attack-2286914

5 months suspended for 2 years.
https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/18162013.yeter-acar-given-suspended-prison-sentence/

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 4 Mar 2020 - 14:45
Post #1554679

And another looking to achieve fame in our hall of shame, hopefully they will change their mind. However you can only lead a horse to water......

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=133548&st=0

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 10 Mar 2020 - 08:13
Post #1556103

Awaiting sentencing having plead guilty.

Was at risk of totting and added tape to he number plate so it read differently.

https://www.southwalesguardian.co.uk/news/18291524.penygroes-woman-taped-registration-avoid-speed-fine-facing-prison/

As an aside the Judge delayed the driving ban so she could drive home before it came into play.

Posted by: Ocelot Fri, 13 Mar 2020 - 19:30
Post #1557034

How do you find all these cases?

Posted by: The Rookie Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 05:44
Post #1557090

A simple google news search for speeding and pervert.....

Posted by: southpaw82 Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 12:48
Post #1557131

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 05:44) *
A simple google news search for speeding and pervert.....

That must get some interesting results!

Posted by: cp8759 Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 14:57
Post #1557155

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 12:48) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 05:44) *
A simple google news search for speeding and pervert.....

That must get some interesting results!

I was thinking that...

There was a case a few years ago of the creepy guy driving naked on the motorway next to a coach that just happened to be a school trip coach, from what I recall he claimed he was a nudist going about his lawful business and the fact that he was travelling at exactly the same speed as a coach was a mere coincidence...

Posted by: The Rookie Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 21:44
Post #1557233

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 12:48) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 05:44) *
A simple google news search for speeding and pervert.....

That must get some interesting results!

One or two.........

Posted by: Fredd Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 23:18
Post #1557243

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 21:44) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 12:48) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 05:44) *
A simple google news search for speeding and pervert.....

That must get some interesting results!

One or two.........

Don't worry, nobody's judging you. Many people will think that "speeding" is just a value judgement, after all. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Ocelot Sun, 15 Mar 2020 - 13:55
Post #1557293

I tried that exact search and it does (mostly) bring back PCOJ news stories (although there is one from the Sun - Pervert abducted girl, 7, from outside park before speeding off ).

Posted by: The Slithy Tove Sun, 15 Mar 2020 - 16:57
Post #1557308

Another one for the collection
https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/man-jailed-providing-false-details-speeding-offences

Posted by: madbasshunter Thu, 2 Apr 2020 - 13:25
Post #1561037

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 13:48) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 14 Mar 2020 - 05:44) *
A simple google news search for speeding and pervert.....

That must get some interesting results!


It must make interesting reading 🙄

Posted by: cp8759 Thu, 2 Apr 2020 - 19:42
Post #1561121

@madbasshunter much of it will be down to whether the information you have is actionable.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 6 Jul 2020 - 06:34
Post #1573812

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 10 Mar 2020 - 09:13) *
Awaiting sentencing having plead guilty.

Was at risk of totting and added tape to he number plate so it read differently.

https://www.southwalesguardian.co.uk/news/18291524.penygroes-woman-taped-registration-avoid-speed-fine-facing-prison/

4 months suspended for 12 months and 150hrs of unpaid work.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/speeding-driver-ban-police-camera-18363829

Posted by: morrisman Mon, 6 Jul 2020 - 11:41
Post #1573852

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 6 Jul 2020 - 07:34) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 10 Mar 2020 - 09:13) *
Awaiting sentencing having plead guilty.

Was at risk of totting and added tape to he number plate so it read differently.

https://www.southwalesguardian.co.uk/news/18291524.penygroes-woman-taped-registration-avoid-speed-fine-facing-prison/

4 months suspended for 12 months and 150hrs of unpaid work.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/speeding-driver-ban-police-camera-18363829

And a 6 month driving ban

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 06:26
Post #1574824

For the speeding offence, yes.

Another volunteer, named someone else to avoid his punishment, adjourned for pre-sentencing reports
https://www.cumbriacrack.com/2020/07/01/carlisle-dad-to-be-could-receive-jail-term-for-lying-about-speeding-drivers-identity/

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 09:35
Post #1574835

Businessman names an ex-employee with an incorrect address (which he himself owns!) for two speeding offences (one of which would have qualified for a course normally).

Ex-employee can prove he was in Bulgaria at the time and the vehicle keeper's mobile phone was in the locations of the speeding events. Plead guilty to both of the 'perverting' charges.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dogan-ozyurt-carmarthen-court-crime-18523190

Posted by: The Slithy Tove Thu, 23 Jul 2020 - 13:05
Post #1576580

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 10:35) *
Businessman names an ex-employee with an incorrect address (which he himself owns!) for two speeding offences (one of which would have qualified for a course normally).

Ex-employee can prove he was in Bulgaria at the time and the vehicle keeper's mobile phone was in the locations of the speeding events. Plead guilty to both of the 'perverting' charges.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dogan-ozyurt-carmarthen-court-crime-18523190


QUOTE
The advocate described his client as a hardworking family man and said the offending was "very much out of character".
Yet
QUOTE
The court heard he has one previous conviction for two offences, namely failing to stop after an accident and failing to report an accident.
So, not so "out of character" really.

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 23 Jul 2020 - 14:23
Post #1576593

QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Thu, 23 Jul 2020 - 14:05) *
QUOTE
The advocate described his client as a hardworking family man and said the offending was "very much out of character".
Yet
QUOTE
The court heard he has one previous conviction for two offences, namely failing to stop after an accident and failing to report an accident.
So, not so "out of character" really.

PCOJ is in character for someone with motoring offences?

Posted by: Fredd Thu, 23 Jul 2020 - 15:22
Post #1576598

I doubt he would have thought of it as some different category of offence, even if he had a clue what PCOJ was - it would just have been a mundane sequel, "Getting Off a Motoring Offence 3"

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 07:04
Post #1578404

And another.... Barber and Taxi driver (?) caught speeding at 46 in a 30, named a women who had not been in the UK for about a year, he even then replied on her behalf claiming 'she' was driving.

Photo's clearly showed a man behind the wheel so the Police did some digging.

4months suspended for 18 months and 200hrs of unpaid work following a guilty plea.

https://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/18622298.male-driver-caught-speeding-claimed-woman-behind-wheel/

Posted by: cp8759 Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 08:55
Post #1578433

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 3 Aug 2020 - 08:04) *
Photo's clearly showed a man behind the wheel so the Police did some digging.

He could have claimed discrimination, maybe he identified as a woman on that particular day...

Posted by: Waspeze Wed, 5 Aug 2020 - 09:30
Post #1578811

Another one




https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/18629303.brighton-taxi-driver-ahmad-rastinsani-jailed-speed-lies/?ref=rss



Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 21 Oct 2020 - 09:21
Post #1593681

One awaiting trial....not speeding but still directly motoring related. Not sure he sounds overly law abiding.

Kevin Kiarie, 26, of Bassett Road, Oxford, entered no pleas to allegations he intended to pervert the course of justice by giving false details, that he drove a VW Golf on the A420 carelessly, without insurance or a licence and was in possession of cannabis. He was bailed for the plea and trial preparation hearing on October 23 at Swindon Crown Court.

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/18792686.dock-recent-cases-swindon-magistrates-court/

Not sure it's the same person but the ages for both these cases stack up.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/14/the-lawyer-who-takes-the-cases-no-one-wants

In Court 68, appeals were being heard from lawyers for two offenders, Courtney Byndloss, a Jamaican national, and Kevin Kiarie, a Kenyan. Both were challenging decisions to deport them before they could appeal from within the UK. Kiarie, whose parents have indefinite leave to remain, and who has lived in England for 19 of his 23 years

“Both have shown a disregard for the law of the UK, and therefore there is a public interest in removing them from the UK, and therefore policy reflects that public interest … and if that means removing them pending their appeal then so be it. That is the view of parliament.” This Kevin had previously received a 2 year sentence although I can't find what crime for.

The appeal was upheld and 'this Kevin' stayed in the UK while he fought deportation, I can't find a reference to the result of that.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/10710324.scales-justice-oxford-magistrates/

There was also an earlier motoring offences case (2013) where the age being consistent is the only indication it was the same Kevin K.
Kevin Kiarie, 19, of Bassett Road, Oxford, admitted driving without insurance, driving without a licence and assault in Hillsborough Road, Iffley, Oxford, on July 27. Also admitted failing to surrender to magistrates on July 27. Fined £235 and told to pay a £20 victims’ surcharge. Given six points on driving licence.

If it's all the same person it's fair to say he's 'known to the Police'.




Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 26 Oct 2020 - 07:22
Post #1594602

Not the driver, but David Humphreys accepted £300 from the registered keeper to 'admit the offence' (perverting 1) but then named a dead man as the driver (perverting number 2).

16 month prison sentence* suspended for 18 months
https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/essex-crime-theydon-bois-dad-4635973?cmpredirect=

No mention of what the RK is facing, presumably awaiting a trial as he's not been identified nor a case mentioned.

*8 months for each of the two offences.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 17 Nov 2020 - 14:50
Post #1600145

An already disqualified driver accepted 14 lots of speeding points in exchange for £100 each.

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/crime/leeds-man-who-took-14-drivers-speeding-points-ps100-payments-jailed-perverting-justice-3034576

He was already 'known to the Police' (handling stolen goods, benefit fraud and theft) and has been given a two year sentence for perverting the course of justice, consideration is being given to prosecuting the drivers who took advantage of his services.

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 2 Dec 2020 - 12:02
Post #1603344

Lands End to John O'Groats record attempt driver allegedly perverted the course of Justice to avoid Police Detection.
'Fake' plates plus laser jammers and a Tetra receiver to monitor Police radio.

To say the extended range fuel tank system was a bit risky would be an understatement!

Trial continues.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/john-ogroats-lands-end-record-4756186

EDIT, acquitted, lucky boy.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 17 Dec 2020 - 07:48
Post #1606025

Posted in another thread

Civilian worker in a safety camera office deleted videos of his and his wife's indiscretions to avoid any further action.

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 16 Dec 2020 - 20:15) *
Ten months for PCOJ by deleting video sessions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9060201/Police-worker-jailed-deleting-video-showed-speeding-wearing-cowboy-hat.html

Posted by: trubster Sat, 9 Jan 2021 - 16:12
Post #1610001

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9128933

QUOTE
Husband, 51, avoids jail after giving police spouse's name in bid to dodge string of driving offences despite her being barely conscious with brain tumour


16 counts of PCOJ, 1 count of fraud - How on earth he got a suspended sentence I'll never know! He didn't even get a ban / points as he claimed exceptional hardship!

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 11 Jan 2021 - 07:13
Post #1610286

Taxi driver got his friend to say he was driving (he got a SAC) to avoid a totting ban.

5 months porridge for the driver and 3 months for his co-conspirator. Making Trubsters verdict seem even more out of kilter.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/anglesey-taxi-driver-covid-volunteer-19574551

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 28 Jan 2021 - 07:41
Post #1613976

Driver claimed his number plates had been stolen and fitted to a ringer when his car was photographed passing a speed camera at 69 in a 50 limit, found guilty by a Jury of attempting to pervert the course of justice, waiting on sentencing.

https://www.northdevongazette.co.uk/news/crime/speeding-driver-jail-for-lying-to-police-7077490

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 8 Feb 2021 - 08:20
Post #1616545

The above was sentenced to 6 months in prison.

QUOTE
Neil Pegg reeled off excuse after excuse to police claiming he wasn’t behind the wheel of his Toyota Celica when it was clocked exceeding the limit on the A361 at Ashford.

The 58-year-old from Burrington, near Umberleigh, claimed his registration plate had been stolen, that he could not drive for medical reasons, and that the car was unroadworthy. But investigators found the vehicle had passed its MOT days earlier and Pegg’s mobile phone had been at the location at the time of the offence.

The defendant, who already had six points on his driving licence, went on to assert this was a coincidence and that he’d been on public transport.

When this was debunked, Pegg said he had been given a lift by a friend who had subsequently left the country.


On that basis 6 months seems lenient!

https://www.radioexe.co.uk/news-and-features/local-news/driver-gets-six-months-after-lying-about-speeding/

Posted by: southpaw82 Tue, 9 Feb 2021 - 15:36
Post #1616872

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=60401&headline=In%20this%20week%27s%20Isle%20of%20Man%20Examiner:%20Another%20Covid-19%20offender%20is%20sent%20to%20jail&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2021

Police officer crashes car while OPL. Calls friend (who works in the Emergency Services Control Room). Friend picks cop up. Police stop the pair, cop fails breath test and is arrested. Story is concocted and given to police. Lies found out.

Cop - driving ban and community service and 8 months suspended for an offence against public justice. Friend 40 hours community service for assisting an offender. Both very lucky IMO not to go to prison.

Posted by: mickR Tue, 9 Feb 2021 - 22:57
Post #1616985

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 9 Feb 2021 - 15:36) *
http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=60401&headline=In%20this%20week%27s%20Isle%20of%20Man%20Examiner:%20Another%20Covid-19%20offender%20is%20sent%20to%20jail&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2021


Fetching pic of you on the front page SP wink.gif

Posted by: southpaw82 Tue, 9 Feb 2021 - 23:34
Post #1616995

QUOTE (mickR @ Tue, 9 Feb 2021 - 22:57) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 9 Feb 2021 - 15:36) *
http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=60401&headline=In%20this%20week%27s%20Isle%20of%20Man%20Examiner:%20Another%20Covid-19%20offender%20is%20sent%20to%20jail&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2021


Fetching pic of you on the front page SP wink.gif

It was for charity, honest!

Posted by: mickR Wed, 10 Feb 2021 - 11:29
Post #1617065

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 9 Feb 2021 - 23:34) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Tue, 9 Feb 2021 - 22:57) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 9 Feb 2021 - 15:36) *
http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=60401&headline=In%20this%20week%27s%20Isle%20of%20Man%20Examiner:%20Another%20Covid-19%20offender%20is%20sent%20to%20jail&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2021


Fetching pic of you on the front page SP wink.gif

It was for charity, honest!

rolleyes.gif RuPaul eat ya heart out.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 11 Feb 2021 - 09:38
Post #1617267

That Tuesday was obviously a tranny Tuesday!

He was lucky indeed to get that suspended.

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 11 Feb 2021 - 14:25
Post #1617330

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 11 Feb 2021 - 09:38) *
He was lucky indeed to get that suspended.

She, as it happens.

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 11 Feb 2021 - 20:25
Post #1617386

Better story http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=60410&headline=Emergency%20worker%20pleads%20guilty%20in%20court&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2021

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 25 Feb 2021 - 11:51
Post #1620406

Father faked his daughter's signature and got her three points so he could avoid a speeding rap.

Relationship with his daughter not clear although he did his level best to get her to drop her evidence. Crime discovered and reported by his ex-wife. Repeat offender (did the same in 2006)

9 months suspended for 2 years. Appears to have escaped jail only because of ongoing health issues.

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/crime/philip-thompson-east-bergholt-perverting-course-justice-sentence-7391052

Posted by: TMC Towcester Thu, 25 Feb 2021 - 12:16
Post #1620414

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 25 Feb 2021 - 11:51) *
Father faked his daughter's signature and got her three points so he could avoid a speeding rap.

Relationship with his daughter not clear although he did his level best to get her to drop her evidence. Crime discovered and reported by his ex-wife. Repeat offender (did the same in 2006)

9 months suspended for 2 years. Appears to have escaped jail only because of ongoing health issues.

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/crime/philip-thompson-east-bergholt-perverting-course-justice-sentence-7391052


That's a new low-level of scum. I'd have sent his to jail and hoped he did get something terminal. We don't know how many points he has............

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 10:12
Post #1626529

A Taxi driver claimed a friend was driving (who appears to not exist) and later admitted it was false. Not much more details.

6 months sentence suspended for 3 years due to health risks from the pandemic of going to jail.

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/belfast-taxi-driver-spared-jail-20246305

Posted by: cp8759 Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 14:53
Post #1626625

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 10:12) *
A Taxi driver claimed a friend was driving (who appears to not exist) and later admitted it was false. Not much more details.

6 months sentence suspended for 3 years due to health risks from the pandemic of going to jail.

They really should use the Coronavirus Act to allow postponed sentences, i.e. custodial sentences that commence 21 days after the 2nd dose of the vaccine has been offered to the defendant.

Posted by: freddy1 Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 20:14
Post #1626699

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 14:53) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 10:12) *
A Taxi driver claimed a friend was driving (who appears to not exist) and later admitted it was false. Not much more details.

6 months sentence suspended for 3 years due to health risks from the pandemic of going to jail.

They really should use the Coronavirus Act to allow postponed sentences, i.e. custodial sentences that commence 21 days after the 2nd dose of the vaccine has been offered to the defendant.


and when they die in prison from covid , it would be huge embarrasment to HM Gov

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 20:28
Post #1626700

‘When’?

Posted by: mickR Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 21:00
Post #1626705

On the plus side it saves hanging them i suppose rolleyes.gif

Posted by: cp8759 Fri, 26 Mar 2021 - 13:15
Post #1626772

QUOTE (freddy1 @ Thu, 25 Mar 2021 - 20:14) *
and when they die in prison from covid , it would be huge embarrasment to HM Gov

The vaccines so far have shown a 100% level of protection from death or serious disease, so that seems unlikely.

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 08:57
Post #1628715

Another scorned ex-partner who had more fury than anyone else in hell. Two speeding events passed from driver to their partner in a manner that perverted the course of justice.

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/motoring/woman-partner-dupe-police-over-5269683
Driver got six months suspended for 2 years, the ex-partner 3 months also suspended.

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 10:03
Post #1628757

A 'fraudster' has got 5 years for helping others escape speeding convictions.

He seemed to be using fake names at an 'accommodation address' though exact details seemed to be being kept secret for an as yet unknown reason.


https://en.brinkwire.com/news/fraudster-46-is-jailed-for-faking-police-documents-to-help-speeding-drivers-avoid-justice/

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 10:50
Post #1628780

Ex-magistrate jailed for 9 months for claiming her car had been cloned and making changes to the appearance of her car in order to 'prove' the cloning.

To top it off, her name is Karen (you can't make some things up!).

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/19207666.malvern-magistrate-jailed-perverting-course-justice/

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 16 Apr 2021 - 06:43
Post #1630582

This is a funny one, a women who was already disqualified from driving and was caught speeding named her husband as the driver (TWICE) and made sure he didn't receive his letters (so he was convicted twice of S172 offences, he only found out later when he was himself disqualified for totting.

Sentenced to 14 months in prison suspended for 2 years, that she had been suffering mental health issues at the time seems to be a significant factor in it being suspended.

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/skelmersdale-man-wrongly-banned-driving-20388866

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 19 Apr 2021 - 06:29
Post #1631089

A Brighton restauranteur provided ex-employees names (who were no longer in the country) for his speeding offence - on four separate occasions.

Sentenced to 8 months for each offence (but to run concurrently, so will serve less time than some people convicted of just one offence).

https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2021/04/16/brighton-restaurant-boss-jailed-for-blaming-speeding-offences-on-former-staff/

The Police certainly seem to be catching more of these. in the last 2 years than they were previously.

Posted by: Irksome Sat, 24 Apr 2021 - 08:40
Post #1632351

Biker who sold his bike on the morning of an incident.

https://gosafe.org/blog-news/2021/april-20th-2021/

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 10 May 2021 - 11:30
Post #1635617

And another.
Named a person who formerly lived at his house (tenant?) who only found out when he had an insurance claim denied for not declaring the (presumably S172) conviction and had to clear his name.

Suspended prison sentence for perverting the course justice, duration (sentence or suspension) not reported, will update if I find out.
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/fenham-speeder-pulled-fast-one-20538236

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 11 May 2021 - 10:37
Post #1635868

A Bradford man named a three supposed foreign drivers, he subsequently plead guilty to perverting the course of justice, sentenced to 8 months in prison.

The West Yorks' Police press release https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/man-jailed-giving-false-details-avoid-speeding-fines

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 11 May 2021 - 14:07
Post #1635901

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 21 Oct 2020 - 10:21) *
Kevin Kiarie, 26, of Bassett Road, Oxford, entered no pleas to allegations he intended to pervert the course of justice by giving false details, that he drove a VW Golf on the A420 carelessly, without insurance or a licence and was in possession of cannabis. He was bailed for the plea and trial preparation hearing on October 23 at Swindon Crown Court.

Now sentenced to 8 months suspended, and yes it appears he was the same Kevin Kiarie already well known to the Police.

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/19016185.suspended-sentence-driver-lied-gave-police-wrong-name/

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 12 May 2021 - 07:49
Post #1636007

An old case (court hearing 2019) of a special police inspector (really should have known better) who fabricated a story to get her son off a speeding offence and was jailed for 5 months has now also been struck off the nursing register for 12 months just to add salt to her wounds.

It really, really, isn't worth doing it over a speeding offence.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9565921/Nurse-ex-police-volunteer-suspended-lying-sons-whereabouts.html
Sorry it's the fail but it's the most easily accessible article

Nurse and Midwifery Council hearing, a bit dry but lots more facts than in a media article.
https://www.nmc.org.uk/globalassets/sitedocuments/ftpoutcomes/2021/april-2021/reasons-ravenscroft-fpcsh-75114-20210430.pdf

Original case reporting
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/17964443.special-constable-karen-ravenscroft-jailed-sons-speeding-ticket/

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 17 May 2021 - 14:26
Post #1637054

Could be a juicy one, an ex-superindent and four serving Gaurdai (Republic of Ireland police) charged with Perverting the Course of justice for making speeding and other offences 'go away'. I suspect it will be a while before it gets to trial.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/four-garda%C3%AD-and-retired-superintendent-charged-with-attempting-to-pervert-course-of-justice-1.4565149

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 27 May 2021 - 14:55
Post #1639179

And this time we have a double whammy!
Two brothers gave false names and addresses in a highly novel, innovative and foolproof way (just kidding, it was none of those!) to try and avoid the repercussions of speeding.
Five counts of perverting the course of justice for one, just four for the other (amateur!), both plead guilty and received just 6 months in jail, the courts are very inconsistent. Though I guess it's possible they will be deported back to Turkey when they get out.

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/19326757.newport-brothers-jailed-trying-avoid-speeding-tickets/

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 1 Jun 2021 - 07:04
Post #1639719

WARNING - dreadfully written article but it's the only one I can find
Evesham women caught speeding and faced a totting ban and got a colleague to 'take the points' for her.

She has plead guilty (it appears), her co-conspirator appears not to have entered a plea at all, so her sentencing will wait.


https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/19335676.driver-worcester-court-getting-colleague-take-speeding-points/

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 2 Jun 2021 - 13:38
Post #1639915

A slightly different one, a women, while reporting her ex partner for domestic violence offences admitted having accepted blame for two speeding offences committed by that ex-partner and her defence is based on her having been 'forced' into doing so.

Trial in progress.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/19343084.westcliff-woman-claims-forced-take-blame-exs-speeding/


EDIT: Acquitted, presumably on the basis she was 'forced' into the offence by her ex-partner, if she was then I'd suggest justice was served.
https://www.braintreeandwithamtimes.co.uk/news/south_essex_news/19351011.westcliff-woman-acquitted-perverting-course-justice/

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 7 Jun 2021 - 06:44
Post #1640987

One of the most tangled tales we have seen, firstly he named a made up non-existent person as the driver, then he claimed the plates were cloned and spun a yarn about when he fitted the plates to back that up (how he thought he'd get away with it after being caught lying once I don't know) and a faked witness testimony! All for 74 in a 60mph (so yes, awareness course would have been an option unless he'd already taken one in previous 3 years).

14 months prison sentence suspended for 12 months.


https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/welsh-restaurant-boss-spun-costly-20744359

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 15 Jun 2021 - 12:22
Post #1642951

A 19 year old Blackpool man was caught speeding 30 times in just three months (that, I have to say, is an impressive effort!), he claimed he had sold the car previous to the offences occurring but then was stopped by the police while driving the car he had supposedly sold 3 months earlier (wait, what!), he maintained his attempted deception (deceiving no-one now I suspect) up until court where he pleaded guilty.

10 months prison sentence (seems light for 30 offences of PCoJ) suspended for 2 years, 18 month ban, 250 hours of community service, 25 rehabilitation days and a 4 month curfew. I'm wondering if he's also likely to have had his licence revoked under the new drivers act.

Posted by: andy_foster Tue, 15 Jun 2021 - 16:58
Post #1643041

Not unless he also got points (and those points took his total to 6 or more).

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 07:27
Post #1643362

Indeed, hence why I was wondering, no mention either way in the article.

Posted by: Ahelpinggand Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 07:54
Post #1643364

Shows the inconsistency when you consider the sentence above

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 08:43
Post #1643378

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 08:27) *
Indeed, hence why I was wondering, no mention either way in the article.

If he was only prosecuted for PCOJ then he can’t have received points.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 09:05
Post #1643382

Yes, I realise that. I also recognise that usually by the time PCOJ comes to light the original offences have timed out.

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 09:46
Post #1643389

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 10:05) *
Yes, I realise that. I also recognise that usually by the time PCOJ comes to light the original offences have timed out.

So the NDA can’t have been triggered…

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 11:45
Post #1643412

Hence my deliberate wording. You seem to think I said something I didn't say?

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 15 Jun 2021 - 13:22) *
I'm wondering if he's also likely to have had his licence revoked under the new drivers act.

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 16:41
Post #1643497

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 12:45) *
Hence my deliberate wording. You seem to think I said something I didn't say?
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 15 Jun 2021 - 13:22) *
I'm wondering if he's also likely to have had his licence revoked under the new drivers act.


My understanding of what you wrote was that you were wondering if he had his licence revoked under the NDA. I admit to some surprise at your question, as I had assumed that you would know that such would require him to accumulate 6 or more points and PCOJ does not carry points. I am now less sure in my assumption but, no, I don’t believe I think you said something you didn’t say.

Posted by: cp8759 Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 16:54
Post #1643502

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 17:41) *
...and PCOJ does not carry points.

Was the law not changed so that points can be imposed for any offence? Or was that just for driving bans?

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 16:58
Post #1643505

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 17:54) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 17:41) *
...and PCOJ does not carry points.

Was the law not changed so that points can be imposed for any offence? Or was that just for driving bans?

IIRC, disqualification for any offence has been with us since (at least) the Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000. I’m not aware of points for any offence not covered by the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 though.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 18:39
Post #1643530

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 17:41) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 17 Jun 2021 - 12:45) *
Hence my deliberate wording. You seem to think I said something I didn't say?
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 15 Jun 2021 - 13:22) *
I'm wondering if he's also likely to have had his licence revoked under the new drivers act.


My understanding of what you wrote was that you were wondering if he had his licence revoked under the NDA. I admit to some surprise at your question, as I had assumed that you would know that such would require him to accumulate 6 or more points and PCOJ does not carry points. I am now less sure in my assumption but, no, I don’t believe I think you said something you didn’t say.

Ok, I thought my intent was clear, it was speculation, obviously if he got no points it wouldn’t happen, I wasn’t trying to say he had points and then I wondered if it resulted in revocation. Now you explain it I understand how it could cause confusion.

Though not as much as the recent BBC headline of “Appeal to find women who helped rape victim in Glasgow”.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 5 Jul 2021 - 09:37
Post #1647260

And another willing volunteer for the hall of shame!
Keeper claimed he had sold the car before the point when it was caught speeding, but then later insured it in his name. 4 counts of perverting the course of Justice, 9 month prison sentence.

https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/bradford-man-jailed-perverting-course-justice

Posted by: Gerfc1 Fri, 9 Jul 2021 - 15:30
Post #1648413


QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 5 Jul 2021 - 10:37) *
And another willing volunteer for the hall of shame!
Keeper claimed he had sold the car before the point when it was caught speeding, but then later insured it in his name. 4 counts of perverting the course of Justice, 9 month prison sentence.

https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/bradford-man-jailed-perverting-course-justice


It is dated 23rd July 2021, how can West Yorkshire Police predict the future events.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 12 Jul 2021 - 07:06
Post #1648837

Good spot, came out on about 23rd June so a simple typo and no DeLorean involved unfortunately.

Posted by: morrisman Tue, 20 Jul 2021 - 10:41
Post #1650714

Not speeding but dangerous driving, moral of the story if you are going to blame your mate make sure he is not in prison at the time of the offence.
https://beta.northumbria.police.uk/latest-news/2021/july/dangerous-driver-who-lied-about-being-behind-the-wheel-is-jailed-after-being-caught-on-cyclists-head-cam/

Posted by: cp8759 Tue, 20 Jul 2021 - 14:10
Post #1650763

QUOTE (morrisman @ Tue, 20 Jul 2021 - 11:41) *
Not speeding but dangerous driving, moral of the story if you are going to blame your mate make sure he is not in prison at the time of the offence.
https://beta.northumbria.police.uk/latest-news/2021/july/dangerous-driver-who-lied-about-being-behind-the-wheel-is-jailed-after-being-caught-on-cyclists-head-cam/

Maybe they'll get to be cell buddies laugh.gif

Posted by: andy_foster Tue, 20 Jul 2021 - 19:01
Post #1650817

According to Northumbria Police, he was jailed despite attempting to pervert the course of justice, and was sent an FPN through the post for dangerous driving.

Posted by: notmeatloaf Mon, 26 Jul 2021 - 00:47
Post #1651932

The full video for that one is online. I'm surprised he got done for dangerous. Overtakes like that are hardly rare. Drivers seem to struggle with the concept you can't pass a cyclist through central islands like that.

Then again, I've had drivers overtake on the wrong side of bollards onto mini-roundabouts because I've moved out to turn right.

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2021/07/20/cyclists-head-cam-footage-exposed-dangerous-drivers-lie/

Although I have a helmet cam, I'd be doing nothing else if I reported every idiotic overtake.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 27 Jul 2021 - 10:21
Post #1652160

Speeding at 110mph, stopped and gave false details.

The 'named' driver got a CoFP (reading between the lines) and named the car owner (and driver) and then tried naming someone else again!

Plead guilty to PCoJ, 4 months in prison and 8 months driving disqualification.

At the time of the offence he was unlicensed and uninsured.


https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/m11-traffic-lying-hatfield-driver-5635630

A women claimed it was not hercar caught speeding (46 in a 40, so course territory), submitted doctored photo's to try and show differences and claimed to not be at the location at the time (however her mobile phone was!). She did claim it was her son who sent the doctored photo's but then declined to give his details (throw him under her bus I'd suggest).

Sentenced to 18 weeks for PCoJ, suspended for 12 months.

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/19435780.woman-62-sends-police-fake-photo-avoid-speeding-offence/

Posted by: andy_foster Tue, 27 Jul 2021 - 15:06
Post #1652197

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 27 Jul 2021 - 11:21) *
Speeding at 110mph, stopped and gave false details.

The 'named' driver got a CoFP (reading between the lines) and named the car owner (and driver) and then tried naming someone else again!

Plead guilty to PCoJ, 4 months in prison and 8 months driving disqualification.

At the time of the offence he was unlicensed and uninsured.


Reading between the lines, the "journalist"(in the loosest possible sense of the word) made half of it up.

If stopped for doing 110 mph, the next correspondence would be an SJPN or written requisition (it would be an SJPN because the police/prosecution are lazy/incompetent, despite an SJPN not being appropriate for speeds where a ban would invariably be considered). No "penalty notice" was issued to anyone, nor did it give the option to nominate another driver (other than the "why are you pleading not guilty" bit of the SJPN.

From what I could bear to read of that web of lies and twaddle, The owner left the keys with the driver (who had not licence and insurance). The driver identified himself as the owner and then when that came back tried to name someone else.

I struggled to comprehend who was who in "The man spoke to him..." and then I realised the utter stupidity of trying to make sense out of an article written by a lazy retard.

Posted by: Irksome Wed, 28 Jul 2021 - 10:22
Post #1652330

Another idiot!

https://orlo.uk/Nzo6n

Posted by: notmeatloaf Wed, 28 Jul 2021 - 21:52
Post #1652424

QUOTE (Irksome @ Wed, 28 Jul 2021 - 11:22) *
Another idiot!

https://orlo.uk/Nzo6n

I know people say you will go to prison for PCoJ on here, but that does show you have to try very hard to actually get through the gates.

Posted by: madbasshunter Thu, 29 Jul 2021 - 09:21
Post #1652477

Not sure if this one has been mentioned before

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/driver-64-jailed-after-police-caught-him-using-laser-jammer/ar-AAMFyJ0?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 29 Jul 2021 - 10:09
Post #1652485

QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Wed, 28 Jul 2021 - 22:52) *
QUOTE (Irksome @ Wed, 28 Jul 2021 - 11:22) *
Another idiot!

https://orlo.uk/Nzo6n

I know people say you will go to prison for PCoJ on here, but that does show you have to try very hard to actually get through the gates.

There is a lot on inconsistency, Chris Huhne was sentenced to 9 months for lesser actions than in this case.

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 29 Jul 2021 - 11:13
Post #1652498

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 29 Jul 2021 - 11:09) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Wed, 28 Jul 2021 - 22:52) *
QUOTE (Irksome @ Wed, 28 Jul 2021 - 11:22) *
Another idiot!

https://orlo.uk/Nzo6n

I know people say you will go to prison for PCoJ on here, but that does show you have to try very hard to actually get through the gates.

There is a lot on inconsistency, Chris Huhne was sentenced to 9 months for lesser actions than in this case.

Sentencing is an art not a science. There are an infinite number of factors that come into play when determining sentence. For PCOJ, however, the starting point is that custody is highly likely.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 2 Aug 2021 - 09:24
Post #1653124

8 months prison sentence for using a laser jammer. Not helped by claiming at trial they were for parking purposes.

Best write up is in the Fail
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/driver-64-jailed-after-police-caught-him-using-laser-jammer/ar-AAMFyJ0

For those who refuse to read the Wail
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/crime/driver-jailed-using-laser-jammer/
(with a photo of a car going past a radar gatso...)

Posted by: jdh Mon, 2 Aug 2021 - 09:27
Post #1653126

QUOTE (madbasshunter @ Thu, 29 Jul 2021 - 10:21) *
Not sure if this one has been mentioned before

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/driver-64-jailed-after-police-caught-him-using-laser-jammer/ar-AAMFyJ0?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
I'm curious how that isn't more of a 'going equipped' type offence rather than the full PCOJ.

Posted by: cp8759 Mon, 2 Aug 2021 - 11:13
Post #1653149

QUOTE (jdh @ Mon, 2 Aug 2021 - 10:27) *
QUOTE (madbasshunter @ Thu, 29 Jul 2021 - 10:21) *
Not sure if this one has been mentioned before

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/driver-64-jailed-after-police-caught-him-using-laser-jammer/ar-AAMFyJ0?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
I'm curious how that isn't more of a 'going equipped' type offence rather than the full PCOJ.

That would require Parliament to legislate, which appears unnecessary to PCOJ seems to work perfectly well.

Posted by: TryOut Mon, 2 Aug 2021 - 14:20
Post #1653206

QUOTE (jdh @ Mon, 2 Aug 2021 - 10:27) *
QUOTE (madbasshunter @ Thu, 29 Jul 2021 - 10:21) *
Not sure if this one has been mentioned before

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/driver-64-jailed-after-police-caught-him-using-laser-jammer/ar-AAMFyJ0?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
I'm curious how that isn't more of a 'going equipped' type offence rather than the full PCOJ.

He "went equipped"...then used the equipment. Why are you curious, the issue seems to be described perfectly?

The police were investigating a speeding offence. The operator observed what he thought was a speeding offence. Mr John's equipment prevented the police operator from confirming or denying the facts.

the action of the equipment that was installed on the car prevented the police from confirming the vehicle was or was not speeding. As it happens, the vehicle was speeding then slowed as the video was to show, but the speed didn't matter. The police can, if they wish, point a speedmeter at any car to determine its speed, if the reading is prevented then there is a perversion of justice.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 9 Aug 2021 - 07:01
Post #1654446

Cumbrian Police issue a press release regarding a number of PCOJ cases including a man who tried to claim his mother in law was driving....no stereotyping there then!
https://cumbriacrack.com/2021/08/04/cumbrian-officers-prosecute-drivers-for-perverting-course-of-justice/

Posted by: Glacier2 Tue, 10 Aug 2021 - 20:34
Post #1654952

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 9 Aug 2021 - 08:01) *
Cumbrian Police issue a press release regarding a number of PCOJ cases including a man who tried to claim his mother in law was driving....no stereotyping there then!
https://cumbriacrack.com/2021/08/04/cumbrian-officers-prosecute-drivers-for-perverting-course-of-justice/

All very minor offences. My mind boggles as to what they were thinking.


Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 10 Aug 2021 - 20:59
Post #1654962

QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Tue, 10 Aug 2021 - 21:34) *
]
All very minor offences. My mind boggles as to whether they were thinking.

FTFY!

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 7 Sep 2021 - 07:03
Post #1660884

Man named his Uncle as driver, once this was uncovered he didn't seem to do much in the way of making things better for himself!

9 months suspended for 2 years (but only just according to the judges comments as reported), 175hours unpaid work and a hefty costs bill.

https://www.champnews.com/story.asp?id=GN4_ART_1864182

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 7 Sep 2021 - 08:55
Post #1660897

An interesting case reminiscent of Huhne/Pryce.

Ex Girlfriend claims she helped a police officer cover up a speeding allegation when he claimed he was unsure of the driver ID, court case ongoing.

Though I would ask why, when we now see every unable to ID case tested in court, a police officer's case appears to have been dropped by the Police.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/london-police-officer-richard-hammond-court-ex-girlfriend-b953538.html

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 11:31
Post #1662530

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 7 Sep 2021 - 09:55) *
An interesting case reminiscent of Huhne/Pryce.

Ex Girlfriend claims she helped a police officer cover up a speeding allegation when he claimed he was unsure of the driver ID, court case ongoing.

Though I would ask why, when we now see every unable to ID case tested in court, a police officer's case appears to have been dropped by the Police.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/london-police-officer-richard-hammond-court-ex-girlfriend-b953538.html


EDIT:
The above now found guilty. Awaiting sentencing


https://uknip.co.uk/breaking/news-271985/a-serving-police-officer-has-been-found-guilty-of-perverting-the-course-of-justice-after-trying-to-evade-speeding-ticket/

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 27 Sep 2021 - 08:17
Post #1665164

A Bradford man has been jailed for 6 months after supplying false drivers SEVEN times.

There were also 2 fraudulent insurance policies taken out on the car in question.

In light of all that the sentence looks a bit light to me! (noting they only seem to have prosecuted one of the PCoJ offences).

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19595473.man-jailed-repeatedly-providing-false-details/

Posted by: sputnik365 Tue, 28 Sep 2021 - 15:44
Post #1665492

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/myecia-reid-trowbridge-cardiff-court-21698576

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 30 Sep 2021 - 13:25
Post #1665994

A 61 year old businessman, sitting on 9 points and clocked at 104mph (Miss Daisy would not approve) named a 70 year old pensioner as the driver.

Later admitted PCoJ

Sentenced to 6 months and disqualified for 15 months.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/m4-mercedes-driver-blames-innocent-5990506

Posted by: Gerfc1 Thu, 30 Sep 2021 - 14:53
Post #1666029

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 30 Sep 2021 - 14:25) *
A 61 year old businessman, sitting on 9 points and clocked at 104mph (Miss Daisy would not approve) named a 70 year old pensioner as the driver.

Later admitted PCoJ

Sentenced to 6 months and disqualified for 15 months.
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/m4-mercedes-driver-blames-innocent-5990506


And his business may have to be folded

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 11 Oct 2021 - 14:05
Post #1668061

Detected doing 96mph on the M1, named two different ex-tenants in a bid to avoid 5 points.

Pleaded guilty and sentenced to 4 months in prison.

https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/96mph-driver-jailed-after-blaming-innocent-people-speeding

Posted by: TMC Towcester Tue, 12 Oct 2021 - 06:51
Post #1668187

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 11 Oct 2021 - 15:05) *
Detected doing 96mph on the M1, named two different ex-tenants in a bid to avoid 5 points.

Pleaded guilty and sentenced to 4 months in prison.

https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/96mph-driver-jailed-after-blaming-innocent-people-speeding


...and yet a parent who knocked 10 bells out of a primary school teacher gets a suspended sentence (i.e no sentence at all).............

Posted by: Irksome Sat, 16 Oct 2021 - 09:25
Post #1669213

https://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/news/crime/worthing-driver-who-lied-to-police-over-m23-speeding-is-banned-from-driving-3421150?amp

Posted by: andy_foster Sat, 16 Oct 2021 - 15:49
Post #1669261

QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Tue, 12 Oct 2021 - 07:51) *
...and yet a parent who knocked 10 bells out of a primary school teacher gets a suspended sentence (i.e no sentence at all).............


But a refusal to cooperate with the criminal justice system, which relies on compelling motorists to confess so that the sausage machine can process them, is far more serious than somebody having 10 bells knocked out of them. In much the same way, only the clearest conceivable language can convey Parliament's intention that a matter not be justiciable, but the principle seems to be largely absent from the considerations regarding anything else concerning fundamental rights that do not purport to usurp the powers of the courts.

Posted by: TryOut Mon, 18 Oct 2021 - 07:20
Post #1669487

QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 16 Oct 2021 - 16:49) *
QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Tue, 12 Oct 2021 - 07:51) *
...and yet a parent who knocked 10 bells out of a primary school teacher gets a suspended sentence (i.e no sentence at all).............


But a refusal to cooperate with the criminal justice system, which relies on compelling motorists to confess so that the sausage machine can process them, is far more serious than somebody having 10 bells knocked out of them. In much the same way, only the clearest conceivable language can convey Parliament's intention that a matter not be justiciable, but the principle seems to be largely absent from the considerations regarding anything else concerning fundamental rights that do not purport to usurp the powers of the courts.

The effective conditions of keeping or using a motor vehicle on the road include identifying the driver when requested to do so.
The lawful way of opting out if the conditions are not acceptable is not to keep or drive a motor vehicle on the road, and not to stamp your feet in frustration when you are asked.
As I recall only one judge thought the law was unreasonable, the rest thought it logical to protect the public that providing ID of the driver when an offence was alleged was totally justified. Case over and now that old chestnut is settled.

Posted by: andy_foster Mon, 18 Oct 2021 - 19:57
Post #1669681

The law is the law, but the sanctimonious bollox about how refusing to confess strikes at the heart of the criminal justice system is bollox.

N.B. Not that it diminishes your point about the law being the law, but there were technically 3 dissenting judgments in O'Halloran and Francis v the UK - one which sums up the argument far better than I could, another that made the first look like it was written a a hung-over law student and the third that actually agreed with the outcome, but on the basis that motorists were not entitled to human rights.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 19 Oct 2021 - 09:48
Post #1669790

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 12:31) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 7 Sep 2021 - 09:55) *
An interesting case reminiscent of Huhne/Pryce.

Ex Girlfriend claims she helped a police officer cover up a speeding allegation when he claimed he was unsure of the driver ID, court case ongoing.

Though I would ask why, when we now see every unable to ID case tested in court, a police officer's case appears to have been dropped by the Police.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/london-police-officer-richard-hammond-court-ex-girlfriend-b953538.html


EDIT:
The above now found guilty. Awaiting sentencing


https://uknip.co.uk/breaking/news-271985/a-serving-police-officer-has-been-found-guilty-of-perverting-the-course-of-justice-after-trying-to-evade-speeding-ticket/

18 months suspended, also lost his job and no longer a police officer.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10096817/Met-police-officer-tried-dodge-speeding-ticket-avoids-jail.html

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 19 Oct 2021 - 10:02
Post #1669797

Caught twice, named a non existent person both times, challenged the Police to prove it... so they did.

15 months suspended having pleaded guilty. 200 hours unpaid and disqualified for 18 months

https://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/news/crime/worthing-driver-who-lied-to-police-over-m23-speeding-is-banned-from-driving-3421150


Posted by: morrisman Thu, 28 Oct 2021 - 12:38
Post #1671850

https://www.roadsafetysupport.co.uk/news/suspended-jail-and-curfew-driver-who-used-speed-camera-jammer

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 29 Oct 2021 - 07:54
Post #1672032

Driver blamed a 'made up' valeteer for speeding 8 times in his car. A total of 11 counts of PCoJ (and continued to lie to probation services despite pleading guilty).
Sentenced to 20 months.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/car-dealer-jailed-after-inventing-fictitious-valeter-in-desperate-bid-to-avoid-speeding-tickets/238939




Posted by: andy_foster Fri, 29 Oct 2021 - 09:07
Post #1672043

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 29 Oct 2021 - 08:54) *
Driver blamed a 'made up' valeteer for speeding 8 times in his car. A total of 11 counts of PCoJ (and continued to lie to probation services despite pleading guilty).
Sentenced to 20 months.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/car-dealer-jailed-after-inventing-fictitious-valeter-in-desperate-bid-to-avoid-speeding-tickets/238939


If he's going to make up a job title rather than use an existing one, it's not surprising he was caught.

QUOTE (morrisman @ Thu, 28 Oct 2021 - 13:38) *
https://www.roadsafetysupport.co.uk/news/suspended-jail-and-curfew-driver-who-used-speed-camera-jammer


Read more like an advert for RSS than a news article until I realised it was written by RSS and on their site.

QUOTE
A jury at Swansea Crown Court found Jason Moore guilty of perverting the course of justice after he fitted a Laser Star jamming device to a VW Transporter van to prevent a laser speed camera operator, employed by Dyfed-Powys Police, from establishing the speed of the vehicle.


I had no idea that PCoJ required such specific intent. Even attempted murder isn't that specific.

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 29 Oct 2021 - 11:05
Post #1672079

QUOTE (andy_foster @ Fri, 29 Oct 2021 - 10:07) *
QUOTE
A jury at Swansea Crown Court found Jason Moore guilty of perverting the course of justice after he fitted a Laser Star jamming device to a VW Transporter van to prevent a laser speed camera operator, employed by Dyfed-Powys Police, from establishing the speed of the vehicle.


I had no idea that PCoJ required such specific intent. Even attempted murder isn't that specific.

Indeed, you would think it would have been less hassle to just slow down than going and getting a jammer fitted before daring to drive past!

Posted by: rosturra Tue, 2 Nov 2021 - 10:40
Post #1672719

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 7 Sep 2021 - 08:55) *
... I would ask why, when we now see every unable to ID case tested in court, a police officer's case appears to have been dropped by the Police.


Bit of a sly insinuation without data to back up.

How do you know every unable to ID case is tested in court? Or what proportion?

Clearly any case dropped won't be reported in press.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 2 Nov 2021 - 15:17
Post #1672789

Anecdotally, unless a driver is named the Police pass cases to court to decide on whether the relevant diligence was used or not. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

Posted by: rosturra Tue, 2 Nov 2021 - 16:14
Post #1672801

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 2 Nov 2021 - 15:17) *
Anecdotally, unless a driver is named the Police pass cases to court to decide on whether the relevant diligence was used or not. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?


The plural of anecdote is not data.

I have no idea whether Police pass all such cases to court to decide.
But I didn't make the claim. Burden of proof is not on me!


Posted by: TryOut Tue, 2 Nov 2021 - 19:44
Post #1672851

QUOTE (rosturra @ Tue, 2 Nov 2021 - 17:14) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 2 Nov 2021 - 15:17) *
Anecdotally, unless a driver is named the Police pass cases to court to decide on whether the relevant diligence was used or not. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?


The plural of anecdote is not data.

I have no idea whether Police pass all such cases to court to decide.
But I didn't make the claim. Burden of proof is not on me!

They don’t.

What rookie is qualifying with “anecdotally” is really just a guess. Rookie not being currently or indeed ever been involved in the process is passing off his experience gained on this forum as “anecdotal”. There are more accurate descriptions but let’s just stay with guess.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 16 Nov 2021 - 08:33
Post #1676031

A rather special one, caught 28 times including 26 times in a 4 month period (I guess he felt empowered), named non existent people in response to the S172 requests.

Jailed for 12 months and disqualified for 2.5 years.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/yorkshire-driver-who-gave-false-details-to-avoid-26-speeding-fines-in-four-months-is-jailed-3447188
https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/man-jailed-after-perverting-court-justice

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 18 Jan 2022 - 09:42
Post #1688991

Another giving a a strangers details in response to an S172 request for 2 offences. he named a women that doesn't own a car or even drive.

Sentenced to 14 months for a total of 6 PCoJ events, disqualified from driving for 18 months.

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19828379.speeding-avice-amjad-jailed-giving-false-details-police/

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 18 Jan 2022 - 11:46
Post #1689044

Probable driver claimed the car photographed wasn't theirs (registered to his wife) and 'photoshopped' photos to try and support the claim. Then after admitting this tried ti claim someone else was driving (who wasn't).

6 months eating porridge!

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/19792041.jail-a69-driver-lied-speeding-offence/

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 18 Jan 2022 - 14:16
Post #1689106

A strange case, the woman admitted driving in response to the NIP/S172 however when it went to court she claimed the camera was faulty as she wasn't there and produced some faked evidence she was somewhere else. Found guilty and sentenced to 4 months suspended for 18 months.

All when 69 in a 50 would have qualified for a fixed penalty which she had presumably declined.


https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/woman-produced-fake-letter-from-employer-in-attempt-to-evade-speeding-conviction-3495643

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 21 Jan 2022 - 07:24
Post #1690026

A tangled web weaved, named an innocent person, provided a false address, then provided what seems to be a stolen driving licence as well as faked insurance documents to try and back up his story.

That he got away with just 20 weeks in prison seems rather light after all that.
https://uknip.co.uk/breaking/news-277811/a-motorist-who-lied-about-two-speeding-offences-in-brighton-has-been-jailed-for-perverting-the-course-of-justice/

Posted by: DancingDad Wed, 2 Mar 2022 - 17:39
Post #1698702

Posed as her sister and faked her own death.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10569723/Woman-38-faked-death-avoid-driving-convictions-jailed-eight-months.html

Posted by: southpaw82 Tue, 15 Mar 2022 - 20:40
Post #1701210

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10615883/Pilates-teacher-37-jailed-16-months-trying-dodge-two-speeding-fines.html

Posted by: andy_foster Tue, 15 Mar 2022 - 21:31
Post #1701220

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 15 Mar 2022 - 20:40) *
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10615883/Pilates-teacher-37-jailed-16-months-trying-dodge-two-speeding-fines.html


So, two counts of perverting the course of justice resulted in a prior 16 month suspended sentence being 'un-suspended', and no additional sentence (or presumably any sentence(s) for perverting to run concurrently)?

Whilst she is in effect being punished for perverting, having previously effectively 'gotten away with' stealing £35k, it seems wrong not to increase her total sentence - albeit not as wrong as a suspended sentence for stealing £35k.

Posted by: TMC Towcester Wed, 16 Mar 2022 - 19:35
Post #1701438

She bought car insurance though!!

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 6 Apr 2022 - 10:09
Post #1705109

Disqualified driver caught speeding lied and claimed an employees was driving. Pleaded guilty.
4 months for driving while disqualified, 6 months for Perverting the course of justice, however to be served concurrently so I guess on that basis you could say that perverting was worth a punt!

2years and 3 months to be added to his disqualification.

https://www.lep.co.uk/news/crime/disqualified-driver-who-lied-to-police-after-being-caught-speeding-in-preston-jailed-3628280

Many have noted that the sentencing for PCoJ is somewhat 'haphazard', and that there was no guidance, well the sentencing council has issued some new proposed guidance and it is available for comments.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/news/item/publication-of-perverting-the-course-of-justice-and-witness-intimidation-statistical-bulletin/
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/news/item/draft-sentencing-guidelines-for-offences-of-perverting-the-course-of-justice-and-witness-intimidation-published/

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 14 Apr 2022 - 09:38
Post #1706638

Father names his son as driver (he wasn't...) and appears to have completed the paperwork 'on his behalf' (without his knowledge) and the son ended up with 6 points for speeding.

He has pleaded guilty to the Perverting charge, case now pending a sentencing hearing, he has been told to expect immediate custody.
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/lying-driver-told-police-son-6938121

Posted by: DancingDad Thu, 14 Apr 2022 - 14:09
Post #1706699

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 14 Apr 2022 - 10:38) *
Father names his son as driver (he wasn't...) and appears to have completed the paperwork 'on his behalf' (without his knowledge) and the son ended up with 6 points for speeding.

He has pleaded guilty to the Perverting charge, case now pending a sentencing hearing, he has been told to expect immediate custody.
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/lying-driver-told-police-son-6938121


Doesn't give any idea of why?
Dodging a totting up ban or loss of job if he had points would be common, won't be to avoid the fine as it seems he paid it anyway (for his son)
Seems strange and a good chance of porridge for breakfast.

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 20 Apr 2022 - 10:35
Post #1707529

An unnamed Halifax man admitted three cases of PCoJ in relation to speeding cases.

Very few personal details for some reason, appears to have named fictitious people as drivers.

Sentenced to 6 months in chokey.
https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/crime/halifax-man-jailed-for-perverting-the-course-of-justice-in-relation-to-speeding-offences-including-travelling-99mph-on-the-m62-3652541

Posted by: Glacier2 Wed, 20 Apr 2022 - 20:54
Post #1707644

Must be in witness protection or some such.

Posted by: morrisman Thu, 28 Apr 2022 - 17:02
Post #1709109

Suspended Sentence for Motorist after Attempt to Dodge 81mph in 40 Zone Speeding Fine

https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/suspended-sentence-motorist-after-attempt-dodge-81mph-40-zone-speeding-fine

Posted by: morrisman Tue, 3 May 2022 - 15:20
Post #1709865

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-61082031

A speeding killer driver who doctored the dashcam footage of a fatal crash has been jailed for 20 months.

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 18 May 2022 - 08:59
Post #1712393

A driver with a 'colourful' driving record (including TWO previous convictions for dangerous driving) was clocked at 151mph, first he gave a fake drivers name, then claimed it was in a garage (and faked an invoice for the work). His own phone provided much of the evidence it was a pack of lies.

Sentenced to 8 months in prison (seems lenient to me under the circumstances), a request for a suspension was not accommodated.

QUOTE
"The only question is whether that inevitable custodial sentence can be suspended. I'm afraid in the circumstances of your case it cannot."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-60918039


Posted by: DancingDad Wed, 18 May 2022 - 12:47
Post #1712447

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 18 May 2022 - 09:59) *
A driver with a 'colourful' driving record (including TWO previous convictions for dangerous driving) was clocked at 151mph, first he gave a fake drivers name, then claimed it was in a garage (and faked an invoice for the work). His own phone provided much of the evidence it was a pack of lies.............


QUOTE
Asking for a suspended sentence for Hussain, barrister Abigail Langford said her client had learned his lesson........

His previous convictions would suggest otherwise.

Posted by: Irksome Thu, 23 Jun 2022 - 08:59
Post #1719055

https://www.kidderminstershuttle.co.uk/news/20225854.kidderminster-man-29-jailed-trying-get-speeding-ticket/

Posted by: DancingDad Thu, 23 Jun 2022 - 12:28
Post #1719116

QUOTE (Irksome @ Thu, 23 Jun 2022 - 09:59) *
https://www.kidderminstershuttle.co.uk/news/20225854.kidderminster-man-29-jailed-trying-get-speeding-ticket/


QUOTE
Florea, of Park Street, denied being the driver of the vehicle and nominated two other people on two separate occasions, despite being sent photographs which appeared to clearly show it was him driving.


Makes you wonder what people use for brains or even if they have one.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 1 Aug 2022 - 19:12
Post #1726994

Was taken in b6 a scam where he paid £150 to help make the offence (103/70) go away, of course the nominated driver didn’t exist, later claimed the car was in quick fit being driven b6 another customer but later came clean.

Sentenced to 80 days.

https://www.theoldhamtimes.co.uk/news/20591641.jailed-using-false-oldham-details-dodge-103mph-speeding-fine/

Posted by: morrisman Mon, 3 Oct 2022 - 11:46
Post #1738977

With a one-third discount for his guilty plea Britton was sentenced to four months in prison suspended for 12 months and was disqualified from driving for six months. He was also ordered to pay £500 towards prosecution costs.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/van-driver-tried-con-way-25136130

Posted by: Jlc Mon, 3 Oct 2022 - 12:13
Post #1738981

I was looking for this thread yesterday. The main forum had an application from a new 'customer'... Making such rather rash assertions.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 4 Oct 2022 - 10:06
Post #1739162

This thread from a potential future star!
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=146766

And another volunteer for the hall of shame

A van driver added stripes to his van to try and convince the police the van detected speeding as a clone!

4 months sentence suspended for 12.

The stupidity is he only had 3 points at the time so a further 3 via fixed penalty would have been fairly meaningless.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/van-driver-added-stripes-vehicle-25158813

Posted by: DancingDad Thu, 6 Oct 2022 - 09:17
Post #1739579

Not PCOJ or speeding but of the same ilk so seems to fit in here.

From the Daily fail so excuse the reporting.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11286387/Elizabeth-McKnight-avoids-jail-drunk-two-bottles-wine-roadside-car-breakdown.html
Basic summary.
Woman broke down.
Decided to neck some wine while waiting for help.
Police turn up, realise she has had a drink, ask for breath test.
She refuses, refuses again at station.
End result, 2 years ban, 12 month community correction order, 60 hours unpaid work, 20 hours probation service rehabilitation and £234 total costs.
If she'd have given the sample, would likely have been away and clear, no proof she was drink driving, the hipflask defence.

Posted by: andy_foster Fri, 7 Oct 2022 - 21:26
Post #1739908

Remind me, where does the burden of proof lie in the hipflask defence?

Posted by: southpaw82 Fri, 7 Oct 2022 - 21:37
Post #1739909

QUOTE (andy_foster @ Fri, 7 Oct 2022 - 22:26) *
Remind me, where does the burden of proof lie in the hipflask defence?

See, now I resisted saying that…

Posted by: DancingDad Sat, 8 Oct 2022 - 09:33
Post #1739953

QUOTE (andy_foster @ Fri, 7 Oct 2022 - 22:26) *
Remind me, where does the burden of proof lie in the hipflask defence?

I doubt that you would need reminding but was one reason why I ws careful to use the word likely and not say she would have got away with it.
A lot would have depended on actual levels and whether they stacked up with her story and perceived timings relating to when she had broken down etc.
The assumption in law is that she would have been driving over the limit and it would be up to her defence to show that the assumption was unsafe.

The main point to me was that by refusing, she guaranteed conviction, simply by refusing.
She may have got away with it had she blown into the machines

Posted by: andy_foster Sat, 8 Oct 2022 - 12:47
Post #1739979

AIUI, if you are utterly w*nkered, refusal is a better option, in much the same way that if the unidentified driver was caught doing 150, 6 points for the s. 172 offence would seem quite attractive.

Posted by: southpaw82 Sat, 8 Oct 2022 - 13:59
Post #1739990

QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 8 Oct 2022 - 13:47) *
AIUI, if you are utterly w*nkered, refusal is a better option, in much the same way that if the unidentified driver was caught doing 150, 6 points for the s. 172 offence would seem quite attractive.

I once had a barrister (delivering police station training) say much the same and for the UK it is probably correct. He was surprised when I told him that where I am has a mandatory minimum 5 year ban for failing to provide.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 10 Oct 2022 - 07:27
Post #1740253

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 8 Oct 2022 - 14:59) *
He was surprised when I told him that where I am has a mandatory minimum 5 year ban for failing to provide.

Which is presumably on a similar basis for the S172 points being raised (some time ago) from 3-6, though arguably still too lenient to be a genuine deterrent for gross offenders such as AF's hypothetical scenario.

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 27 Oct 2022 - 13:36
Post #1743693

Husband (taxi driver) named wife as driver when he was in fact driving.

Both prosecuted for PCOJ, both pleaded guilty.

Sentenced to 9 and 4 months respectively which was suspended for 18 months for both due to the wife's disability and him being her and the children's primary carer.

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/crime/leeds-judge-sentences-wakefield-couple-for-perverting-course-of-justice-after-kirkstall-speeding-offence-3893401

Posted by: roythebus Sat, 5 Nov 2022 - 22:21
Post #1745248

I'm surprised the taxi licencing authority hasn't done him for allowing an unlicenced person drive a licenced hackney carriage or private hire car. It's not permitted uned the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions)Act 1978 (I think).

Posted by: 666 Sun, 6 Nov 2022 - 08:25
Post #1745269

QUOTE (roythebus @ Sat, 5 Nov 2022 - 22:21) *
I'm surprised the taxi licencing authority hasn't done him for allowing an unlicenced person drive a licenced hackney carriage or private hire car. It's not permitted uned the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions)Act 1978 (I think).

But he hadn't!


Posted by: andy_foster Sun, 6 Nov 2022 - 09:43
Post #1745276

QUOTE (roythebus @ Sat, 5 Nov 2022 - 22:21) *
I'm surprised the taxi licencing authority hasn't done him for allowing an unlicenced person drive a licenced hackney carriage or private hire car. It's not permitted uned the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions)Act 1978 (I think).


Presumably https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1976/57/part/II

Probits unlicensed persons driving PHVs as PHVs. Does not appear to prohibit unlicensed persons driving cars that happen to be PHVs when not being used as a PHV.

QUOTE
46 Vehicle, drivers’ and operators’ licences.

(1)Except as authorised by this Part of this Act—

(a)no person being the proprietor of any vehicle, not being a hackney carriage [F1or London cab] in respect of which a vehicle licence is in force, shall use or permit the same to be used in a controlled district as a private hire vehicle without having for such a vehicle a current licence under section 48 of this Act;

(b)no person shall in a controlled district act as driver of any private hire vehicle without having a current licence under section 51 of this Act;

©no person being the proprietor of a private hire vehicle licensed under this Part of this Act shall employ as the driver thereof for the purpose of any hiring any person who does not have a current licence under the said section 51;

(d)no person shall in a controlled district operate any vehicle as a private hire vehicle without having a current licence under section 55 of this Act;

(e)no person licensed under the said section 55 shall in a controlled district operate any vehicle as a private hire vehicle—

(i)if for the vehicle a current licence under the said section 48 is not in force; or

(ii)if the driver does not have a current licence under the said section 51.

(2)If any person knowingly contravenes the provisions of this section, he shall be guilty of an offence.

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 7 Dec 2022 - 10:58
Post #1751570

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/west-yorkshire-police-officer-wife-25639943

A serving West Yorks' police officer caught speeding named his wife as driver (also with the force, though as a civilian employee).

Both have pleaded guilty and are awaiting sentencing.

Why they went down that route hasn't been mentioned in any of the news articles.

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 4 Jan 2023 - 08:19
Post #1755960

Hopefully Jesus does forgive your sins if you repent!

A chaplain, when stopped by the Police, claimed to be one of his relatives (that doesn't sound a very Christian thing to do if I recall my Bible learnin's at school), he went on to do this again at another roadside stop but then retracted it before the stop was over.
The kicker - he was already driving while disqualified.

His barrister claimed "The offences were a wholly out of character aberration on his part" but to be honest it sounds more like he's just been good at covering it up until now. Offences sufficient for him to be disqualified, then choosing to drive (and surely more than just twice) while disqualified, I can sort of understand the perverting was a knee jerk reaction, but the driving while disqualified was surely a very deliberate premeditated action.

Sentenced to 6 months, an the appeal for a suspended sentence was rejected.

Disqualified from driving for a further 21 months.

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/23164199.respected-chaplain-jailed-trying-dodge-speeding-ticket/

Posted by: DWMB2 Wed, 4 Jan 2023 - 10:20
Post #1755973

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 4 Jan 2023 - 08:19) *
A chaplain, when stopped by the Police, claimed to be one of his relatives (that doesn't sound a very Christian thing to do if I recall my Bible learnin's at school)

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's licence.

Posted by: Jlc Thu, 26 Jan 2023 - 10:51
Post #1760700

West Yorks Police Officer jailed as Wife took points.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11676845/Disgraced-West-Yorkshire-police-officer-jailed-persuaded-wife-speeding-points.html

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 26 Jan 2023 - 11:16
Post #1760705

QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 26 Jan 2023 - 10:51) *
West Yorks Police Officer jailed as Wife took points.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11676845/Disgraced-West-Yorkshire-police-officer-jailed-persuaded-wife-speeding-points.html

Presentencing was in post #329

Same story on the Auntie https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-64401782

Him - 6 months and 18months disqualification from driving
Her - 4 months suspended for 2 years (as she has young children to care for) and 12 weeks disqualification plus 200hrs unpaid work.

Posted by: rosturra Thu, 26 Jan 2023 - 16:09
Post #1760786

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 4 Jan 2023 - 08:19) *
Hopefully Jesus does forgive your sins if you repent!


Perhaps Mohammad Desai isn't Christian...

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 15 Feb 2023 - 10:15
Post #1764421

Two counts of PCOJ after low level speeding (either would have qualified for a course) events, intercepted the NIP/S172 (or S72 according to the article) to the RK (his partner) and 'named' a made up person, sentenced to 8 months after pleading guilty.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/mercedes-driver-decent-family-paid-26187431

Posted by: mickR Wed, 15 Feb 2023 - 14:47
Post #1764466

QUOTE (rosturra @ Thu, 26 Jan 2023 - 16:09) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 4 Jan 2023 - 08:19) *
Hopefully Jesus does forgive your sins if you repent!


Perhaps Mohammad Desai isn't Christian...

perhaps the false name he gave was Morris Davis

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 20 Feb 2023 - 08:59
Post #1765253

A more interesting one, not for itself but for the extra information in the article

QUOTE
“The form was returned and an address in Oldham was given, Kelverlow Street.

“The address in Oldham was well known to the police as it had been used as a farm to some 700 nominated drivers.

May as well run up a red flag at the same time! (No, not sure what 'used as a farm' is meant to say either).

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/23321184.blackburn-man-used-well-known-address-avoid-speeding-ticket/

Delivery driver caught doing 46 and 61 in a 30 (same camera) lied about who was driving both times.

Jailed for 6 months.



Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 20 Feb 2023 - 11:16
Post #1765273

11 accused to stand trial in April for all trying to avoid points and being accused of PCOJ.

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/23221076.eleven-stand-trial-bradford-accused-conspiracy/

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 21 Feb 2023 - 09:12
Post #1765460

Oh what a tangled web we weave....

Caught speeding 3 times, first tried to claim the car was cloned, then tried to rope a friend into a conspiracy (the friend ended up giving evidence at the PCOJ trial) by claiming she had her phone when it went past the scenes of the crimes.

Sentenced to 6 months (seems the new normal) and disqualified from driving for 9 months.

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/crime/manipulative-woman-tried-to-rope-friend-into-lying-about-three-west-yorkshire-speeding-offences-4034118

While at risk of being accused that this is motivated by the wrong reasons, these sorts of cases seem far more prevalent in a certain ethnic community than the other 2 large ethnic communities in the UK, is it 'mindset' or just a lot of misinformation circulating within that community? I find it genuinely intriguing, and from a crime prevention point of view perhaps some pre committing of crime 'education' would help.

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 6 Mar 2023 - 14:21
Post #1767626

A women accused of speeding (would have qualified for a course ordinarily) named two separate non-existent drivers, she then claimed to be illiterate.

All untrue and she was charged with perverting.

An undisclosed 'tragedy' (details appear to have been provided to judge outside of open court) kept her out of prison but she was sentenced to 5 months suspended for 12.

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/crime/leeds-woman-claimed-she-could-not-read-or-write-to-avoid-m62-simple-speeding-fine-4049925

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 22 Mar 2023 - 09:06
Post #1770489

Two women have escaped going to jail as single mums due to the impact on their children.

Women on 9 points caught speeding, names a non existent man and then names a friend who agrees to 'take the points' in exchange for cash and weed. The friend doesn't actually drive (may ring alarm bells - you think?). Sentenced to 6 and 4 months respectively suspended for 12 months. The driver also got her 6 months ban she was trying to avoid (nice touch).

Posted by: DancingDad Thu, 23 Mar 2023 - 10:32
Post #1770693

Today's offering is a baby cop, his mum and stepdad.
Cop clocked speeding, stepdad agreed to be nominated and took the points
Cop then boasted to his work colleagues...which has got to be worth some sort of Darwin type award?
12 months suspended for 12 months each... including mum.
Presumably won't be a cop for much longer either...though you never know in this day and age.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/lying-police-officer-19-mum-26536474

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 23 Mar 2023 - 11:30
Post #1770705

The sentencing is all over the place without apparent logic, clearly the draft sentencing guidelines are desperately needed!
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/publications/item/perverting-the-course-of-justice-and-witness-intimidation-consultation/

Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 5 Jun 2023 - 11:07
Post #1782054

So after a dry spell we have two for the price of one!

Case 1 - Driver 1 and registered keeper gave the details of a passing acquaintance as the driver, twice.
Case 2 - Driver 2 and registered keeper named an innocent party (getting the details and probably the suggestion to 'lie' from her friend who was the driver/RK for case one).

Both provided 'burner phones' to try and cover up their crimes.

Driver 1 sentenced to 18 months, Driver 2 to 12 months suspended for 18. (plus 200 hours of unpaid work).

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/23550937.blackburn-women-sentenced-perverting-course-justice/

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 7 Jul 2023 - 09:11
Post #1785965

A councillor from Kirklees named a fictitious person as driver instead of her partner who was actually driving, she then went on to list the car on ebay to support a pretence the car was for sale at the time and to support her 'misnamed driver' nomination.

39 in a 30 so turned a SAC into a prison sentence for both of them - 14 weeks for her and 12 weeks for him.

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/23638737.councillor-partner-jailed-trying-dodge-speeding-fine/

Posted by: Ocelot Sat, 8 Jul 2023 - 15:45
Post #1786057

These cases always seem to involve speeds which would have been eligible for a SAC, which makes their actions all the more inexplicable.

Posted by: 666 Sat, 8 Jul 2023 - 18:10
Post #1786062

QUOTE (Ocelot @ Sat, 8 Jul 2023 - 16:45) *
These cases always seem to involve speeds which would have been eligible for a SAC, which makes their actions all the more inexplicable.

Easily explicable. Stupidity.

Posted by: rosysparkle Tue, 25 Jul 2023 - 21:01
Post #1788217

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dad-took-speeding-points-son-27390176

The headline here is slightly misleading as no points were in play.

Dad took SAC for his 17 year old son. But before he'd even taken the SAC, the son was involved in a crash which killed two people. Dad still turned up to the SAC!

Now dad is in prison for four months.

Posted by: andy_foster Wed, 2 Aug 2023 - 11:15
Post #1789051

The report appears to be a bigger fabrication than the s. 172 response.

Posted by: Irksome Thu, 10 Aug 2023 - 06:59
Post #1789941

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66304860

Posted by: DancingDad Thu, 5 Oct 2023 - 13:35
Post #1795275

Didn't result in PCoJ but I reckon that was luck
Man caught obscuring number plate with leaves and speeding
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12597421/Motorist-police-LEAVES-cover-license-plates-dodge-speed-cameras.html

Posted by: mickR Thu, 5 Oct 2023 - 14:23
Post #1795283

QUOTE (Irksome @ Thu, 10 Aug 2023 - 07:59) *
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66304860

it was the sons passengers who died not the son

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 21 Nov 2023 - 10:21
Post #1798979

After a bit of a dry spell...

A Tenby Barber convicted of two PCoJ offences for naming an innocent party as driver and arranging for the post to that person to be completed as if they were admitting driving. The innocent party lost their licence and job due to this abusive behaviour, apparently his name and details were circulated on Tik-Tok and used as a 'NIP farm' so I think we can expect a few more.

The accused maintained a not guilty approach until it got to court.
Sentence was 8 months (sounds a bit light really under the circumstances) and a years supervision plus 16 months disqualified from driving.
https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/23922646.jail-tenby-barber-perverted-course-justice/




Posted by: Jlc Thu, 21 Dec 2023 - 20:08
Post #1802383

And the back office spend some time in jail too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw90d7gr90eo

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 16 Jan 2024 - 13:23
Post #1804920

53 year old women replied to an S172 request stating it wasn't her car and she was at work at the time.

Changed her plates and added stickers to the car as part of her 'cunning plan'.

Maintained her innocence for a long time (even after sentencing for the underlying speeding offence) before finally pleading guilty to PCoJ.

6 months suspended for 12 months plus 20 days 'work'.
https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/24051265.grappenhall-woman-changed-car-reg-plates-avoid-speeding-points/

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 6 Feb 2024 - 08:34
Post #1807184

Serving police officer leant her car to her unlicensed boyfriend who was caught speeding and with officers abandoning the chase due to his dangerous driving. She then claimed the car was stolen at the time and also tried to tamper with computer records to cover this up. On top of this Weed was found in her house when it was searched as part of the enquiry.

This on top of a previous camera case where she named her brother as driver as she was on 6 points.

After long protesting her innocence she has now plead guilty to the main charges and sentenced to 18 months in prison suspended for 18 months plus 100hrs unpaid work.


https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/crime/police-officers-tried-to-dodge-leeds-speeding-fines-then-lied-about-her-bmw-being-stolen-4505750

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 12 Mar 2024 - 09:27
Post #1811180

A Southampton man caught speeding 4 times changed his number plate in order to try and claim his car had been cloned, GPS data from his car and also location data from his phone suggested that his car was in fact at the 'scene of the crime'.

Plead guilty and sentenced to 12 months in prison, also received a 6 months (or 18 months, story not clear) driving disqualification.

https://uknip.co.uk/news/uk/breaking/man-jailed-for-perverting-the-course-of-justice-to-evade-speeding-tickets/

Posted by: andy_foster Tue, 12 Mar 2024 - 14:33
Post #1811229

QUOTE
He was handed a 12-month prison sentence and will also face a six-month driving disqualification upon his release.


Apparently a 6 month ban to run from when he is released. Unusually this report is quite clear if you read the words. And presumably if you don't assume that sentences must necessarily run concurrently.

N.B. an 18 month ban from date of sentencing would effectively be a 15 month ban from when he is released on licence.

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