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Stopped on a red double line
Bahar20
post Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 22:03
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Hi
I received a PCN on 25/06 because I stopped on a red double line. I know, I shouldn't have stopped on the double line but I had to deliver a parcel to a bank, I was late and there was no free loading bay around.
So I tried and challenged the PCN on this ground.
They rejected the appeal but increased it to £130!!
They should have held it at the discounted amount as I made the representation on 07/06 which was during the discounted period.
I don't know what to do now?

I upload the PCN and their response.
Thanks for your help.







This post has been edited by Bahar20: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 22:05
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post Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 22:03
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mdann52
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 10:24
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I've come back to this, but I'm still not seeing how this would apply. The PCN says
QUOTE
If we receive your informal representations during the discounted period, the penalty charge will be held at the discounted amount while we consider your representations


And from the TFL website
QUOTE
If we receive your representation within the discount period the PCN will be suspended. If we don't agree with your representation and you decide to pay the PCN, then the discount period will resume from the point at which it was suspended.

I can't see anywhere on there where it says the discount will be reoffered for another 14 days. As the reps seems to have been submitted on the last day of the period, assuming the discount was available on the day the rejection was sent, I don't see how a PI occurred here.
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hcandersen
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 10:43
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It’s not a PI, it’s the statutory grounds of ‘penalty exceeded......’

And it applies whichever counting system is used.

The OP has proof that they submitted their challenge on 7th.

Even on the worst analysis one day’s discount remains. The authority are obliged to extend this offer to the person submitting the challenge.

Their evidence is that they did not.

Appeal allowed, march out.







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DancingDad
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 12:27
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 11:43) *
It’s not a PI, it’s the statutory grounds of ‘penalty exceeded......’

.........Appeal allowed, march out.


IMO it is both.
They didn't re-offer, ie penalty exceeded
They failed to honour a promise...PI

Agree on the last bit.
My only concern is if TFL re-offer.
While I do not agree this would wind back the initial error, I am not an adjudicator so would become the double or nothing gamble again.
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Bahar20
post Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 19:39
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Hi everyone
This ticket is becoming a painnn...
It was not possible to appeal it online, so I sent the appeal by post and when I track it I can see that it was delivered on time. It appears the appeal was not registered by London Tribunal as I received another letter from TFL and the PCN is increased to £195!
I don't know whom to contact now? sad.gif(
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stamfordman
post Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 20:14
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You can just wait for the debt recovery. Not receiving a reply to reps is a statutory ground for having it reset to PCN stage.

you are not at tribunal stage - you have a charge certificate.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 20:15
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Bahar20
post Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 20:21
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 21:14) *
You can just wait for the debt recovery. Not receiving a reply to reps is a statutory ground for having it reset to PCN stage.

you are not at tribunal stage - you have a charge certificate.


I don't quite understand what you mean by I am not at tribunal stage??
I received the notice to owner and I sent my appeal to London Tribunal...
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stamfordman
post Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 20:33
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QUOTE (Bahar20 @ Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 21:21) *
I received the notice to owner and I sent my appeal to London Tribunal...


Oops - it should have gone to TFL as it says on the form. I don't know whether you can recover from this now - a grovel to TFL may do it.

A parking ticket has two stages with an authority - informal challenge (if so desired) and formal reps to NTO (must be done or paid). Only after that is it tribunal time.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 20:34
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Bahar20
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 21:07
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Can anyone tell me whom I can contact why London Tribunal didn't register my appeal please?
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cp8759
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 21:17
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QUOTE (Bahar20 @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 22:07) *
Can anyone tell me whom I can contact why London Tribunal didn't register my appeal please?

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/co...-hearing-centre

However, the problem here seems to be that you didn't follow the instructions in the Notice to Owner, which tell you to send your representations to TFL. I'm not sure the Tribunal can help because you haven't followed the correct process.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 21:19


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Bahar20
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 22:57
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QUOTE (Bahar20 @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:50) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 09:01) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 23:10) *
Go online and see what amount is showing and also copy the status timeline.



I checked online and it shows £130 and I can't challenge it anymore. This is the status of it:





omgggg I couldn't challenge it online anymore and that's why I made a mistake and sent the appeal to london tribunal!!!!
why did I even need to appeal it again to them when they rejected me once!!

So what can I do now?

This post has been edited by Bahar20: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 23:12
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DastardlyDick
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 04:01
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QUOTE (Bahar20 @ Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 22:57) *
QUOTE (Bahar20 @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 20:50) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 09:01) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 23:10) *
Go online and see what amount is showing and also copy the status timeline.



I checked online and it shows £130 and I can't challenge it anymore. This is the status of it:




why did I even need to appeal it again to them when they rejected me once!!


Because that's the process laid down in Law.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 07:50
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Process for parking PCNs:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process
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hcandersen
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 09:05
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OP, you are wasting time.

There is no point arguing the toss about the procedure, it is the procedure.

You did not make reps as required.

Contact the authority and, as per stamfordman, ‘ a grovel to TFL may do it.’

Apologise, say you submitted reps in time - but you sent them to the adjudicator in error ( I’m intrigued as to how you obtained these details as you didn’t have an appeal form!) of which you only became aware when you received the CC.

You apologise and would hope that the authority would consider your reps as they are able to do even at this late stage. Enclosed is a copy of the reps sent to ETA on ***.

(Copy of the original, not a re-paste).

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Bahar20
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 14:02
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I called them and they said no we can't accept the representation now. £195 needs to be paid!
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:56
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OP----you made it easy for them by phoning. Now send in hca's letter with the enclosures and get an acceptance or rejection in writing.
My view on this case is that if the OP cannot get access to adjudication there might be a case to submit the circumstances to the LA Ombudsman due to the simple fact that the error in not re-offering the discount has escalated the penalty. OK, the OP has made a number of errors, which should not be discounted, but he should have had the opportunity to settle earlier at a much lower amount which has been denied him.
In this I presume that TfL falls under the Ombudsman's remit.
Mick


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