PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Can Town councils enforce via DPE?
soggi
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 12:58
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 174
Joined: 10 Dec 2016
Member No.: 89,005



Dorset is going to be split into two unitary authorities next spring. They seem totally unprepared and haven't even decided who will run the car parks the unitary or town councils. Should the new authorities have to re apply for CPE powers or will the old county council ones just change and can town councils if given the car parks use DPE powers?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 10)
Advertisement
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 12:58
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
The Rookie
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:16
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



No (sort of), my understanding is to enforce via DPE you have to be a highway authority (so apart from London boroughs that's mostly counties, they can then permit a town council to enforce on their behalf of course, but its still on behalf of the HA.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
soggi
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:49
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 174
Joined: 10 Dec 2016
Member No.: 89,005



Originally the car parks were done by the Borough and District councils and roads by the County. The town councils seem keen to keep the car parks as they need the cash but I was under the impression they had no powers.
It will be interesting to see if they do the change correctly and have all the paperwork and legal stuff in place on April 1st.
It will also be interesting to see how outstanding PCNs are dealt with after the change as DCC will no longer exist and won't be able to consider reps?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:00
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (soggi @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:49) *
Originally the car parks were done by the Borough and District councils and roads by the County. The town councils seem keen to keep the car parks as they need the cash but I was under the impression they had no powers.
It will be interesting to see if they do the change correctly and have all the paperwork and legal stuff in place on April 1st.
It will also be interesting to see how outstanding PCNs are dealt with after the change as DCC will no longer exist and won't be able to consider reps?

Is there any reason the unitary authority can't enforce contraventions in car parks owned by the town council? To enforce in a car park there just needs to be a valid RTRA designation order, I don't see how the owner of the car park, or the author of the order, would make any difference.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:17
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,726
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



Town councils depend on whther or not classed as a metropolitan district council.
Schedule 8 of TMA 2004 still applies AFAIK.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/schedule/8
Section 92, minor definitions also refers
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
soggi
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 15:09
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 174
Joined: 10 Dec 2016
Member No.: 89,005



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:00) *
QUOTE (soggi @ Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:49) *
Originally the car parks were done by the Borough and District councils and roads by the County. The town councils seem keen to keep the car parks as they need the cash but I was under the impression they had no powers.
It will be interesting to see if they do the change correctly and have all the paperwork and legal stuff in place on April 1st.
It will also be interesting to see how outstanding PCNs are dealt with after the change as DCC will no longer exist and won't be able to consider reps?

Is there any reason the unitary authority can't enforce contraventions in car parks owned by the town council? To enforce in a car park there just needs to be a valid RTRA designation order, I don't see how the owner of the car park, or the author of the order, would make any difference.


I guess they could but the current traffic orders refer to being enforced by bodies that will cease to exist. Using that logic a CEO from Lambeth could enforce car parks in Southwark which doesn't seem right.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 16:19
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



No, the authority that takes over that area gets to carry on enforcing, its non sensical to suggest that every TRO would have to be rewritten. An authority can’t just start enforcing outside their area which is what your simile would suggest, that clearly can’t happen but isn’t analogous to what will be happening in Dorset.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DastardlyDick
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 12:37
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,860
Joined: 12 May 2012
Member No.: 54,871



With a bit of luck, they'll make the same mess St Albans Council made back in 2004, when the Police stopped enforcing, but the Council forgot to appoint someone to take over!

This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 08:26
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bama
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 14:01
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,931
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Member No.: 4,323



The mess there wnt way way further than that.
soggi, check ALL the paperwork, CPE applications, TROs, Notices of Making etc.


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mick V
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 15:49
Post #10


Member


Group: Closed
Posts: 9,710
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,355



The real danger here is that the Councils running car parks try to default on DPE, due to the changes, and reintroduce fixed penalty notices with the Mags Court being the "arbiter".

We had issues with this in Oxford and Wycombe IIRC.

They can set their own penalty --which is usually higher than DPE and don't have the strung out appeal process with an adjudicator looking over their shoulder. Streamlines the process and maximises the income stream ---what's not to like?

Why can't they do it? All the guidance said was the County Council, in applying for DPE, had to consider Off Street Car Parks--it was that wishy washy. Indeed if the County Council did not have a written commitment from the subordinate Councils,how can they be kept in check?

Mick
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ford poplar
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 02:22
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,816
Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Member No.: 24,962



Each Unitary Authority should create its own Highway Authority resp for its own patch, to which Town Councils should defer. No further DPE application is required.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 17:19
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here