NEED HELP WITH THIS l Hoxton pedestrain zone fine! Can I appeal this?, I received a fine and do not know to do |
NEED HELP WITH THIS l Hoxton pedestrain zone fine! Can I appeal this?, I received a fine and do not know to do |
Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 16:36
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 10 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,464 |
I do not drive in London much or own a car. I used this DriveNow car hiring service and my friend and I went to pick his younger brothers in a primary school in that street. We were in there for not longer than 5-6 minutes, a few days later, I received an email from DriveNow stating that I've received a fine for entering a pedestrian zone whereby I could not tell whilst I entered in. I will include what i've recieved and any advice to appeal this would be highly appreciated. I was driving a Mini where it is very compacts view so as I was turning in, I did not see any signs or I would not have entered. Are there any grounds to appeal against this penalty
I NEED TO SEND IN THE APPEAL AS SOON AS SO ANY QUICK ADVICE WOULD DO!!!! |
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Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 16:36
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Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 16:45
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
There are several fairly new school street schemes in Hackney where cars are banned from the road at school start and end times.
Post all of the PCN and let's see if there is anything on it that could help. The scheme at Crondall Street is too recent for Street View. I could take some pics next week. It's a pilot for 9 months started end June so still just in this. https://hackney.gov.uk/school-streets This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 16:50 |
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Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 17:09
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
You still have a few days to appeal without loosing the discount option, so no need to panic. Post all the paperwork on here.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 17:20
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 10 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,464 |
There are several fairly new school street schemes in Hackney where cars are banned from the road at school start and end times. Post all of the PCN and let's see if there is anything on it that could help. The scheme at Crondall Street is too recent for Street View. I could take some pics next week. It's a pilot for 9 months started end June so still just in this. https://hackney.gov.uk/school-streets I have went to the location and took some more pictures. Unfortunately, I could not take the whole picture. This post has been edited by johnThames: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 17:30 |
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Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 17:22
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Use and external site like flicr to upload the front page of the PCN, obscuring just your name, address and number plate. Leave everything else in.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 17:28
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 10 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,464 |
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Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 18:55
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 21,014 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
Is the PCN addressed to you or the hire company ? Whilst a hire company can appeal a PCN on the basis that they are a hiring company, they must get this appeal accepted by the council, following which the council cancel off the original PCN and then issue another to the hirer of the vehicle.
Until you get a PCN addressed to you personally, the hire company continue to have responsibility for paying or appealing. Far too many hire companies do not seem to understand the law on PCNs. Many of them just like to pay the PCN, and charge an admin fee. What is there about PCNs in their hiring conditions ? |
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Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 19:00
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Do you have a PCN in your name or is it in the name of the car share company?
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 19:04
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,324 Joined: 9 May 2014 Member No.: 70,515 |
QUOTE Not entirely sure how to upload to flickr. Try this: Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method: Some are having problems with Tinypic at he moment.. try Flickr, where the BBcodes are concealed behind the curly arrow (click on it) for sharing. Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0 for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems. Thera are other sites, such as Flickr, which enable you to paste the BBCodes into your post here. STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [ ] ), and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post. Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space. Redact/obscure name, address, PCN number and reg.mark. LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description. |
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 08:34
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 10 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,464 |
Do you have a PCN in your name or is it in the name of the car share company? It is in the hire company name but they passed liability to me, since I accepted to appeal against it. QUOTE Not entirely sure how to upload to flickr. Try this: Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method: Some are having problems with Tinypic at he moment.. try Flickr, where the BBcodes are concealed behind the curly arrow (click on it) for sharing. Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0 for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems. Thera are other sites, such as Flickr, which enable you to paste the BBCodes into your post here. STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [ ] ), and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post. Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space. Redact/obscure name, address, PCN number and reg.mark. LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description. I can't seem to open a flcikr account but here is a dropbox folder https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9nfscgolnrrkyum/...UbadYbAlqa?dl=0 QUOTE Not entirely sure how to upload to flickr. Try this: Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method: Some are having problems with Tinypic at he moment.. try Flickr, where the BBcodes are concealed behind the curly arrow (click on it) for sharing. Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0 for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems. Thera are other sites, such as Flickr, which enable you to paste the BBCodes into your post here. STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [ ] ), and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post. Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space. Redact/obscure name, address, PCN number and reg.mark. LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description. I can't seem to open a flcikr account but here is a dropbox folder https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9nfscgolnrrkyum/...UbadYbAlqa?dl=0 |
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 12:45
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 10 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,464 |
So is there any chance to appeal against this or do I have to pay?
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 12:52
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Do you have a PCN in your name or is it in the name of the car share company? It is in the hire company name but they passed liability to me, since I accepted to appeal against it. It doesn't work like that, they can't just give you the PCN. They need to submit an appeal to the council on the grounds that they are a hire company and you signed a hire agreement accepting liability, the council will then send you your own PCN. However the online system suggests an appeal has already been submitted, so the hire company might have done this already, in which case all you need to do is wait for a PCN in your name to turn up. Until you receive your own PCN, you can't really do anything. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 15:13
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 10 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,464 |
Do you have a PCN in your name or is it in the name of the car share company? It is in the hire company name but they passed liability to me, since I accepted to appeal against it. It doesn't work like that, they can't just give you the PCN. They need to submit an appeal to the council on the grounds that they are a hire company and you signed a hire agreement accepting liability, the council will then send you your own PCN. However the online system suggests an appeal has already been submitted, so the hire company might have done this already, in which case all you need to do is wait for a PCN in your name to turn up. Until you receive your own PCN, you can't really do anything. They have sent an email with a PDF stating, "Thank you for using DriveNow. We are writing regarding your recent rental agreement with vehicle XXXXBFY on 02.02.2018. Unfortunately following your booking we received a Penalty Charge Notice. See attached. We are writing to let you know that, as per our terms and conditions, £65 plus an administration fee of £15 will be debited from your chosen payment method in the next few working days for the costs incurred. What if I would like to appeal the PCN? If you feel that you have been wrongly issued a PCN and would like to appeal then you may do so by appealing directly to the council (details of how to appeal are included in the PCN). Please notify us WITHIN 48 HOURS if you wish to appeal so we don't pay the PCN which would forfeit your appeal. You will need to keep us informed on how your appeal is progressing. If your appeal is successful we will refund in full all charges incurred.", Thereafter I REPLIED: I will appeal! which they replied... DriveNow (email): Thank you for letting us know. we have transferred liability to you so you can appeal. Please get in touch with the Borough to make your appeal. With kind regards I wanted to know if there are any grounds with what I explained on the post title |
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 15:20
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Go on Hackney's site and see if you can download council pics and video.
The pic on the PCN shows your car turning into the road and there are two signs on either side. You say you were low down - this may be an 'angle' as indeed the signs do look quite high but are probably at usual height. On balance it will be hard to appeal this though I reckon. It's unfortunate but these new types of restrictions are springing up in many places and people will often miss them the first time because they are so unexpected. |
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 17:37
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 21,014 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
QUOTE DriveNow (email): Thank you for letting us know. we have transferred liability to you so you can appeal. Please get in touch with the Borough to make your appeal. With kind regards They may say this, but they cannot just transfer liability. As I have already pointed out, they have to appeal the PCN on the grounds that they are a car hire company.Once the council accept this, they will issue a fresh PCN to you. It seems Drivenow don't understand the law on this. |
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 18:45
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 288 Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Member No.: 83,810 |
QUOTE DriveNow (email): Thank you for letting us know. we have transferred liability to you so you can appeal. Please get in touch with the Borough to make your appeal. With kind regards They may say this, but they cannot just transfer liability. As I have already pointed out, they have to appeal the PCN on the grounds that they are a car hire company.Once the council accept this, they will issue a fresh PCN to you. It seems Drivenow don't understand the law on this. Perhaps they have a special agreement with Hackney, seeing as they would have needed special permission to operate there? (DriveNow cars can use resident permit bays, pay and display bays for free in the borough). Would be good to find out. -------------------- PCNs sucessfully contested with the help of this forum:
Newham 1/1 Enfield 1/1 Hackney 3/4 Ealing 0/1 LCC 1/1 CoL 1/1 PPC successfully contested with the help of this forum: UKPC 1/1 TPS 1/1 ECP 0/1 Overall success rate getting tickets overturned: 75% |
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 18:55
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
QUOTE DriveNow (email): Thank you for letting us know. we have transferred liability to you so you can appeal. Please get in touch with the Borough to make your appeal. With kind regards They may say this, but they cannot just transfer liability. As I have already pointed out, they have to appeal the PCN on the grounds that they are a car hire company.Once the council accept this, they will issue a fresh PCN to you. It seems Drivenow don't understand the law on this. Perhaps they have a special agreement with Hackney, seeing as they would have needed special permission to operate there? (DriveNow cars can use resident permit bays, pay and display bays for free in the borough). Would be good to find out. they cannot. This is a legal process if it is not completed correctly then a PI occurs. Drivenow as owners are liable unless liability is transferred by submission of representations along with evidence of a correctly filled in hire agreement -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 21:00
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Drivenow as owners are liable unless liability is transferred by submission of representations along with evidence of a correctly filled in hire agreement Hackney's website states "A representation has already been submitted for this PCN.", this suggests Drivenow have followed the correct procedure. johnThames, it might be sensible for you to contact Drivenow and confirm they have appealed the PCN on the ground that they are a hire company and that you signed a hire agreement accepting liability. This post has been edited by cp8759: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 21:00 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 21:21
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,156 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
For goodness sake.
The process is clear and is not going to change for this OP. OP, there is nothing you can do at present. There are two scenarios: 1. The company have paid the penalty - this is what is implied by their email, or 2. They have made reps to transfer liability to you. Therefore one of two things will happen: You card will be debited £80 and you will hear no more, or You will receive a PCN if you hired the car. We cannot help with 1, and if you get a PCN come back. That's it. |
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Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 21:49
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
We cannot help with 1, and if you get a PCN come back. I can and I will gladly help with 1 if it comes to that (but I doubt it, the only reasonable explanation I can see for the fact that the council says reps have been made is that Drivernow have correctly transferred liability). -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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