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Chester cc, parked in disabled bay that doubles up as loading bay
cal28
post Sat, 24 Mar 2018 - 23:51
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Hi I recently got a parking ticket from a traffic warden in Chester city center, I appealed and told them l was aware of the signage but wished to appeal on the grounds of mitigating circumstances that on my return to the car the l began feeling ill, and needed to rest for a while until l felt better, stating that I felt my medication was the cause of this. The first letter they sent rejected this stating the attendant was in the right to issue the ticket as l was parked in loading bay during the stated times, also stating,

"you have not disputed the fact that the contravention did not occur but offer mitigating circumstances for consideration. I have considered your circumstances and have to advise they do not merit cancellation of the PCN. cancellation will only be considered where the circumstances that led to the contravention were unavoidable and unforeseen".

Now what is unusual about this parking bay is that is used as a disabled bay until 4.30 pm when it then changes to a loading bay. After the letter, I considered it for awhile and decided to wait for the NTO.

I was also wondering since does becoming ill become avoidable or foreseen. So l appealed the NTO with this...


Sir' i am a disabled driver my car was parked on St, werburgh st on the 10.1.18 with my blue badge correctly on display.
I am also aware that my car was parked in an area that doubles up as a loading bay after 4.30pm, however, on parking, the car I believed I would return to my car before 4.30pm.

on returning to my vehicle L began getting extremely bad headaches, raised temperature and nausea and wanting to throw up, causing me unavoidable and unforeseen delay as I needed to sit down.

I also believe that this was caused by my medication due to side effects as this has happened to me before, but on this occasion, I actually soiled my self-causing me more unforeseen delay. (Thought long and hard about sending them the evidence but didn't,t think it would do me any favors) I apologize for overstaying in in a duel disabled / loading bay, but would ask on this occasion you reconsider my mitigating circumstances.

Anyway, after pissing themselves laughing, they rejected my appeal. So I am wondering where I stand with the adjudicator.

This post has been edited by cal28: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 - 14:49
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post Sat, 24 Mar 2018 - 23:51
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stamfordman
post Sat, 24 Mar 2018 - 23:57
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Post the PCN, your challenge and their rejection. Also give Google Street View of location.

Use a pic site such as Flickr or Imgur and post the links (BBCode links best as they embed pics here).

Are you a BB holder?
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cal28
post Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 00:31
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will try my best to upload not very good though, yes I am a blue badge holder, just to say i think you may have replied before I,d finished the full post.


This post has been edited by cal28: Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 02:37
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ford poplar
post Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 04:31
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Was your BB and clock correctly displayed when you parked?
If your medication did cause you to sh1t yourself, should you still drive whilst taking it?
Sounds like Council may have been prepared to cancel the ticket if you had explained your 'embarassment' in your initial reps.
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 08:38
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The parking campaigner Neil Herron raised doubts about whether a Council could enforce a loading bay restriction where a BB holder was parked -----so there is a potential appeal ground.

However we need to see current photos of the bay, the signage and esp any road markings unless GSV is up to date.

My view is that the Council have fettered their discretion if they stick with their "unavoidable and unforeseen" criteria; notwithstanding their duty to consider any reps under the Equality legislation.

Mick
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cal28
post Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 15:30
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I,ll try and get as much as I can up but from memory, I don't remember any road markings although I was parked on top of a sign. I also remember wondering what they had done with the disabled road markings it's akward because I don't live in chester, so I would have to go back up there and take photo's.The photo's of the car are dark along with the sign.

This post has been edited by cal28: Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 15:31
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 18:05
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Here by any chance?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.1913623,-...3312!8i6656

What time was the PCN issued?


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cal28
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 00:38
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managed to get paperwork up probably not what you're used to so excuse the pics but me being totally thick it's the best I can do.

https://imgur.com/a/rpDMS


https://imgur.com/a/rpDMS


https://imgur.com/a/rpDMS


https://imgur.com/83o4a43

https://imgur.com/LkW98qB

This post has been edited by cal28: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 09:52
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cal28
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 01:13
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 19:05) *
Here by any chance?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.1913623,-...3312!8i6656

What time was the PCN issued?



yes that' the place if you turn to your right you can see the sign and I was parked in the bay nearest to it, stated on the PCN it was observed from 16.55 to 17.02.
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Mad Mick V
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 07:41
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Then Art 8 of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Exemptions for Disabled Persons) (England) Regulations 2000 applies (there is an exemption for vehicles displaying a BB):-

Exemptions from prohibitions on waiting at all times or during specified periods

8.—(1) This regulation applies to an order made under section 1, 6, 9, 35, 45 or 46 of the 1984 Act which includes a provision which–

(a)prohibits (except for the purposes of loading or unloading) the waiting of vehicles, or any class of vehicles, in a road at all times of day or during one or more specified periods of the day;

(b)does not apply to a bus lane or cycle lane during its hours of operation; and

©is not a provision of the kind referred to in regulation 7(1).

(2) An order to which this regulation applies shall include an exemption from the prohibition in accordance with whichever of paragraphs (3) and (4) is appropriate in favour of any vehicle displaying a disabled person’s badge in the relevant position.

(3) Where the period of the prohibition does not exceed 3 hours the exemption shall be for the whole of that period.

(4) Where the period of the prohibition exceeds 3 hours the exemption shall be for a period of 3 hours


Mick
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hcandersen
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 10:43
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?

As loading is exempted from the scope of this section by virtue of 8(1)(a), then how could 8(2) have effect?

I'd be more interested in what appears to be a single yellow line in the parking place, its restrictions and the possible conflict between these and either of the parking place restrictions.

And OP, the authority are correct in that if you have a pre-existing condition then it is not straightforward just to say that you were prevented from moving because of it. Adjudicators have often taken the view that if a motorist is too ill to manage their vehicle safely, then they should not be on the road until they are. (this also applies to the condition of a vehicle).

this was caused by my medication due to side effects as this has happened to me before does not help you.

As regards fettering their discretion, IMO this would be difficult for an adjudicator because the reference is a direct quote from the council's policy and it does not lie with an adjudicator to interfere with such a policy unless it is manifestly wrong in law. I cannot see this happening here.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 10:46
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 10:49
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two things spring to mind re the reg posted by Mick

first i think it was Sunderland city council refunded a large amount of money for PCN's issued in breach of it, and second i have seen a DfT circular explaining their take on it. That being that it was not the intent of parliament to give the exemption for loading bays.

cant find either of them now though, so unless anyone else has a copy ??


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cal28
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 22:31
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So should I just throw my hand in and pay it?
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hcandersen
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 07:56
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Why? But you need to do some legwork.

And start at the beginning.

Is there or is there not a single yellow line at the location?
Did it have any loading restrictions indicated by yellow 'blips' - forget parkiing places, this is a distraction as regards this point (move the GSV and you will see DYL with loading restrictions but these cease to have effect IMO when the SYL starts).

Your defence:
I was parked on a SYL without loading restrictions and displayed my BB. The combination of restrictions at the location is very confusing: a disabled bay, loading bay and a waiting restriction indicated by a SYL (albeit without the benefit of the correct traffic sign). I believed that I was entitled to wait there by virtue of displaying my BB and the waiting restriction.

The council's case:
??? no idea. The SYL should not and legally cannot exist in the parking place without there being the correct sign in place. GSV shows that there is no such sign.

I'd focus on the SYL.
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 12:15
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OP-----don't pay you have a case!!!

Like hca the single yellow line throws up possibilities and I would reiterate the ground I advocated despite his misgivings. Perhaps this post might change his mind:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1045046

Mick
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cal28
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 17:36
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Gents thanks for all the input,sounds like l could do with going back up their and and taking a few photo’s of the area, which I will do hopefully tomorrow.


This post has been edited by cal28: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 01:02
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cal28
post Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 01:15
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@HCA, from what I can remember and going back on GSV that's exactly what it looks like, but I'll go back up tomorrow ,do some leg work and take some photo's of the area.

This post has been edited by cal28: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 01:16
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ford poplar
post Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 05:22
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No where does OP confirm that his BB & clock were correctly displayed at time of parking.

Instead OP is expecting Council to accept an unproved medical reason.


A BB cannot negate the legal requirements of a clearly defined sole Loading Bay.
Cheshire West & Chester is a de-criminalised Authority and cannot employ Traffic Wardens (Police status), only CEOs since the changeover.



This post has been edited by ford poplar: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 05:33
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Wretched Rectum
post Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 06:53
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TPT has often decided that blue badge holders can park in loading only bays for up to 3 hours. Appeal case numbers KM05633F & YD05198JSD can be used in support.

QUOTE
The appeal is therefore allowed on the ground that Mr Clarke was
entitled, by virtue of the Exemption Regulations, to an exemption allowing him to
park in the loading bay, subject to a 3 hour limit, provided that he displayed a
disabled badge and a parking disc (clock) showing the time of arrival. I have
found that he did so on this occasion and was not parked for in excess of the 3
hour limit.

For this reason the alleged contravention did not occur. Mr Clarke is not
liable to pay the penalty charge.


This post has been edited by Wretched Rectum: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 07:03
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cal28
post Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 10:19
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QUOTE (Wretched Rectum @ Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 07:53) *
TPT has often decided that blue badge holders can park in loading only bays for up to 3 hours. Appeal case numbers KM05633F & YD05198JSD can be used in support.

QUOTE
The appeal is therefore allowed on the ground that Mr Clarke was
entitled, by virtue of the Exemption Regulations, to an exemption allowing him to
park in the loading bay, subject to a 3 hour limit, provided that he displayed a
disabled badge and a parking disc (clock) showing the time of arrival. I have
found that he did so on this occasion and was not parked for in excess of the 3
hour limit.

For this reason the alleged contravention did not occur. Mr Clarke is not
liable to pay the penalty charge.




Just to clear it up but it is stated in my rep to Chester my blue badge was correctly on display.

This post has been edited by cal28: Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 10:20
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