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[NIP Wizard] Advice request.
CityofLondon
post Thu, 24 Mar 2011 - 11:02
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2010
Date of the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - UPPER THAMES STREET, BY STEW LANE, CITY OF LONDON
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I have been summonsed for speeding at 51 mph in a 30 mph zone. Looks like I was caught by a Gatsometer. The police have furnished the photographs and also a statement by a civilian police worker confirming the device is Home Office type-approved.

The roadway is marked by lines of 1 metre in length, at 5 metre intervals. The photographs purport to show that I had covered about seven of these lines in 0.5 seconds. A witness statement by a police officer confirms that the officer viewed the photographic evidence and believes I was speeding.

The statement of facts with the summons states that the speed limit is indicated by lighting placed at 200 yard intervals.

I can't remember if I was speeding.

I have the option of pleading Guilty by post.

I would just like some general advice on what I should do if I want to contest the allegation, or investigate further.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:02:11 +0000
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post Thu, 24 Mar 2011 - 11:02
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AntonyMMM
post Thu, 24 Mar 2011 - 11:14
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I suspect the lines are 5 feet apart, not metres .... in which case 35 feet in 0.5 seconds is about 47.7mph. On what basis do you think you can contest the allegation ?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 24 Mar 2011 - 11:58
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If the secondary check confirms the primary (radar) speed, unless you have some procedural loophole (and you've not given us anything to suggest you have) then pleading guilty to get the 33% discount on the fine seems the best option.

Simon


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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CityofLondon
post Thu, 24 Mar 2011 - 12:54
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Thanks for the replies.

By 'secondary check', do you mean the follow-up check by the police officer who checked the roll of film? Sorry for my ignorance, but I am not sure what you mean.

Does it make any difference that the Gatsometer was operated by civilians?

Thanks again.
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Logician
post Thu, 24 Mar 2011 - 13:01
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The secondary check is the number of lines passed in the roadway, and in your case appears to confirm your speed as measured by the Gatso. The cameras are always serviced by civilians, who also do the paperwork.

At 51 in a 30 you are in the area of a short ban, say 7 to 14 days, or 6 points. If you plead G by post, they will ask you to come in if they want to ban you. If you would prefer points, plead by post and they might give you the points to save that bother.

This post has been edited by Logician: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 - 13:07


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CityofLondon
post Wed, 30 Mar 2011 - 00:21
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Thanks for your help and advice.

There is another query I have. The RK is my GF. Actually, neither of us are sure who was driving. We were both in the car. She filled in the section 172 notice indicating she was driving, but I think she did this out of confusion rather than a firm belief that she was driving. Anyway, she is the one with the summons. She does not mention me on the section 172 notice.

Is it still possible for GF to put forward a defence of, 'I don't know who was driving'? Or, would this run the risk of GF earning a s. 172 conviction for 'failing to provide information'.

Any thoughts?

Thanks again.
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ford poplar
post Wed, 30 Mar 2011 - 01:08
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Your g/f as RK should have received the NIP and she named herself as driver on the s172. As such any defence as 'still don't know who was driving' may be perceived as s172 perjury as she/you had time to nominate driver based on 'reaonable diligence'.
Why did OP complete the NIP Wizard as recipient & driver if later they suggest they were not/were?
If g/f was RK and orig NIP recipient, she could plead NG and call b/f as witness who would confess to being the driver 'after further consideration'. Provided g/f DL does not unduely benefit from such admission, Mags may be inclined to accept
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Logician
post Wed, 30 Mar 2011 - 01:33
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QUOTE
Is it still possible for GF to put forward a defence of, 'I don't know who was driving'? Or, would this run the risk of GF earning a s. 172 conviction for 'failing to provide information'.

It is a possible defence, but she would have to demonstrate all she had done to try to identify the driver, and she would still probably be convicted. Too many people have tried that and the courts are deeply cynical about it, so I would advise a definite nomination of one or the other of you. She would get 6 points for the s172 and a big fine, for the speeding you or she would get 6 points or a short ban, but the fine would be smaller. Be careful whatr you are doing, normally these are alternatives, but it is possible to get both s172 and speeding.


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The Rookie
post Wed, 30 Mar 2011 - 08:35
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Now she has been summonsed, she would be challneged as to why she was suddenly withdrawing the S172 responce she submitted naming herself as driver, it may well be too late by the time it gets to court for a summons for the S172 to be made, however....
1/ They may not believe her and convict of speeding anyway
2/ They may believe that this has been done as a deliberate ploy and charge her with attempting to pervert the course of justice (that is she supplied a name and then withdrew that when it got to court knowing it may be hard then to convict her of speeding, especially as in the intervening 5 months she did nothing to correct the original responce), that usually ends in a jail term.

Simon


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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