PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Police haven't issued any NIP just Scottish court summons, Accused of running a red light
septemberj
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 22:34
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6
Joined: 5 Oct 2018
From: Scotland
Member No.: 100,232



I received a card though my door from the police on the 14th of August this year asking me to help them with their enquiries. I called immediately and was visited later that evening. They said a car the same description, colour and plate as mine had been recorded on another motorist's dashcam going through a light after it turned red. The alleged offence occurred on the 11th of May and was reported 2 weeks later by the driver. I told them that I had no recollection of running a red light and it was unlikely to be me as I was signed off work with a broken toe and had no reason to be driving. They then suggested that I remember who else might have been driving. Noone else drives my car, my son was already at work 30 miles in the opposite direction from 2 hours earlier and had driven in his own car as usual. I have concluded that my plate has most likely been cloned.
I never received any NIP but the other day a court summons arrived asking me to plead. It states on there that I was never cautioned or charged by the police but that they had advised me that they would be sending the details to the procurator fiscal [Scotland] Due to such a long time elapsing after the alleged offence I feel that I have been put in an unfair position regarding collecting evidence that it wasn't me.
I have since bought a different plate as I was worried about further, similar repercussions of my plate being cloned. After 37 blemish free years of driving I am finding the whole business very stressful to deal with. Regardless of who was driving, my understanding from this forum is that a NIP should have been sent within 15 days. My correct details are on the V5 and the police say they didn't get in touch earlier as they were 'busy'. I would welcome advice from anyone who has a knowledge of Scottish traffic law and feel they could give me some tips on how to deal with this.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 11)
Advertisement
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 22:34
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
andy_foster
post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 00:56
Post #2


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 24,220
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



What offence(s) have you been charged with?


--------------------
Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
septemberj
post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 03:33
Post #3


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6
Joined: 5 Oct 2018
From: Scotland
Member No.: 100,232



They have charged me with failure to stop at a traffic light. Traffic act 1988section 36[1]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 07:19
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,585
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



No driver confirmation (via s172) nor a mandatory NIP...

I can’t see how they have a case!


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
andy_foster
post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 09:01
Post #5


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 24,220
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



There might be an exception to the 14 day rule - s. 2(3)(a) RTOA 1988. However, if the other driver waited until the 14 days expired before submitting the footage/making a complaint, leaving it impossible for the police to serve a NIP within the 14 days, I would argue that the language of the statute does not limit the reasonable diligence to the police. However, as they have no evidence of the driver's identity, whether or not a NIP was required would seem to be somewhat moot.

QUOTE
(3)Failure to comply with the requirement of section 1(1) of this Act is not a bar to the conviction of the accused in a case where the court is satisfied—

(a)that neither the name and address of the accused nor the name and address of the registered keeper, if any, could with reasonable diligence have been ascertained in time for a summons or, as the case may be, a complaint to be served or for a notice to be served or sent in compliance with the requirement, or


Unless there is more that the OP has not told us, the red light allegation would seem to have no legs. The potential problem might be the s. 172 requirement - although mysteriously not also charged in this summons, the 6 months to instigate proceedings would run from 14th August.



--------------------
Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
septemberj
post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 09:13
Post #6


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6
Joined: 5 Oct 2018
From: Scotland
Member No.: 100,232



That's my understanding of procedures too. The guy who took the dashcam footage didn't give it to the police until 2 weeks after the event- wish he had got a shot of the driver's face and saved me all this stress. The police didn't contact me until 3 months after that. They say in the court summons that they didn't caution or charge me at the visit but advised me that they would probably be sending it to the prosecutor. They didn't believe my number could have been cloned. I am so sure it has been that I have purchased a new plate at considerable expense. Not looking forward to the hassle of trying to clear this mess up at court and was hoping the 14 day rule would put an end to the saga automatically. It's an expensive business pleading not guilty but I would be perjuring myself if I took the easy route and just plead guilty for a quick end to all this. Any advice out there folks?😀
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
septemberj
post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 09:25
Post #7


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6
Joined: 5 Oct 2018
From: Scotland
Member No.: 100,232



Thanks Andy. No you are right, there is no mention of the section 172 requirement. I did point out to them that no one else ever drives my car and my son, the only other householder was 30 miles away clocked in at his work with his own car with him. It has telematics fitted. I would have found it reasonable for the 14 days to run from when they first received the footage but almost 3 months later is late on in the day to try and gather evidence that my car was in the drive at the time.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 09:38
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,581
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



QUOTE (septemberj @ Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 10:25) *
Thanks Andy. No you are right, there is no mention of the section 172 requirement. I did point out to them that no one else ever drives my car and my son, the only other householder was 30 miles away clocked in at his work with his own car with him. It has telematics fitted. I would have found it reasonable for the 14 days to run from when they first received the footage but almost 3 months later is late on in the day to try and gather evidence that my car was in the drive at the time.


Yes, it might be thought reasonable that the police should have 14 days to take action after they become aware of the offence, but there is no such provision and actually since the point of the 14 days rule is that drivers should not be expected to remember part of an unremarkable journey for more than 14 days, it is justifiable as it does not matter why the 14 days was exceeded, it has been and the driver would have the same difficulty.



--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
septemberj
post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 11:41
Post #9


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6
Joined: 5 Oct 2018
From: Scotland
Member No.: 100,232



If they do decide to try and drag this out through the sheriff court does anyone know at what point I am entitled to view this dashcam footage. Was hoping I might be able to see some distinguishing features on the car that I don't have. Also any advice on what I should write on my covering letter that I was going to send for the first hearing. Thanks everyone, so out my depth with all this legal stuff and just can't afford to pay expensive legal bills.☹
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 20:26
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,261
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Once you have entered a not guilty plea, the police will have to supply a copy of the evidence they intend to rely on. They may not be relying on the dash cam footage but the other driver as a witness. But as there is no evidence as to who was driving then I’d suggest you are better served by focusing on that rather than on evidence which is less relevant to your defence.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
septemberj
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 23:33
Post #11


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6
Joined: 5 Oct 2018
From: Scotland
Member No.: 100,232



Just a quick update. I visited the procurator fiscal with my not guilty plea , a statement of my side of this saga and all relevant evidence to prove none of the householders were at the location. Thankfully common sense has prevailed and today I got a letter saying they had dropped the charges. Thanks for all your comments and support.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 06:11
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,261
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Well done, good result all round.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Tuesday, 16th April 2024 - 22:10
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here