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Speed enforcement needs to be more draconian - says Britain’s road policing chief, Threads merged
The Rookie
post Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 08:11
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/31...limit-britains/

Highlights
Motorists should be penalised for going just 1mph over the speed limit, Britain’s road policing chief has said as he called for the 10 per cent buffer zone to be scrapped

Speed awareness courses were being overused

However Tory MP Sir Greg Knight criticised the zero tolerance approach as he told the paper it would “make criminals of good drivers”.

For the over dramatized version
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-53...t-speeding.html

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 08:11


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post Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 08:11
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The Rookie
post Mon, 20 Aug 2018 - 08:50
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The +10% +2mph is a blunt instrument, it may be controversial on here but the impact of that extra 2mph in a 30mph limit on a pedestrian is quite significant, if its a 60 limit the pedestrian would probably be dead anyway (yes assuming they are hit at the travelling speed with no braking).

Of course we would never get an increased tolerance elsewhere to compensate, but if I were i favour of any reduction it would be for a 30 limit (ironically a 20 is low enough that small changes have little meaningful impact on survivability or chances of life changing injures). Maybe also invest some money back into education (Tufty club, Green Cross code/man, Charlie says etc.etc.) so kids aren't running into roads in the first place!


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ex-216
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 16:14
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Actually, I think there are two places this should apply now. Pulls on heavy metal shield to deflect the expected incoming flak.

Outside schools. I live in rural Yorkshire and a small village at that. We have a 20mph limit running along the area of the local school and nursery.
The amount of speeding drivers, and you can tell they are getting a shift on is a lot. I can only imagine what it would be like in an inner city.

The other is on motorways when the work force is present in road work areas. When driving at 50mph, the car is going to traveling at 45-47mph. Given that most speedometers over read, to average 51mph (if its a 50mph zone) the car, in most cases, will be doing a indicated 55. The driver will obviously be able to spot this by the amount of cars their passing.
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typefish
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 08:06
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QUOTE (ex-216 @ Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 17:14) *
Outside schools. I live in rural Yorkshire and a small village at that. We have a 20mph limit running along the area of the local school and nursery.


What about the other 90% of the time (4 hours a day for 195 days) when there is necessarily no need for a 20mph restriction at a school
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I am Weasel
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 10:33
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QUOTE (typefish @ Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 09:06) *
QUOTE (ex-216 @ Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 17:14) *
Outside schools. I live in rural Yorkshire and a small village at that. We have a 20mph limit running along the area of the local school and nursery.


What about the other 90% of the time (4 hours a day for 195 days) when there is necessarily no need for a 20mph restriction at a school


In my locality, the 20mph zones around schools are active only when the amber lights surrounding the 20-sign are flashing


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The Rookie
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 11:54
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QUOTE (I am Weasel @ Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 11:33) *
In my locality, the 20mph zones around schools are active only when the amber lights surrounding the 20-sign are flashing


Google Street View Example

The very sensible approach.....


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DancingDad
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 12:05
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QUOTE (typefish @ Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 09:06) *
QUOTE (ex-216 @ Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 17:14) *
Outside schools. I live in rural Yorkshire and a small village at that. We have a 20mph limit running along the area of the local school and nursery.


What about the other 90% of the time (4 hours a day for 195 days) when there is necessarily no need for a 20mph restriction at a school



Done exactly that at more then one local school to me.
Permanent 20mph zones, 24/7/365 days, complete with speed bumps.

To protect the little darlins who are only wandering about 2 hours a day, 5 days a week, termtime.
Admittedly one is a rat run where the old 30 limit was not respected but even so.

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The Rookie
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 15:22
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 13:05) *
Admittedly one is a rat run where the old 30 limit was not respected but even so.

By rat run, I presume you mean 'road'?

We all use the most sensible 'road' for a journey, no-one goes out of their way to sit in an avoidable traffic queue OR drive down an otherwise quiet road needlessly.

If the 30 limit wasn't respected why not enforce that, lowering the limit to 20 without enforcement will achieve two parts of nothing except perhaps for the first month.


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DancingDad
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 17:10
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 16:22) *
......….If the 30 limit wasn't respected why not enforce that, lowering the limit to 20 without enforcement will achieve two parts of nothing except perhaps for the first month.

Don't ask me rolleyes.gif
The speedbumps have probably reduced the average speed to 30 except for cars without the wheelbase to straddle them, they are at about 15 and still bounce biggrin.gif


But it is a good question re why not enforce.
To me it makes far more sense to stick a camera on a road with a school on it, especially in a residential area as this is, then some of the places that cameras are placed.
I never quite see the point of hammering someone who exceeds a notional 50 limit for a few MPH over on a road that is good for 70 when people wizz along at 40 past a school at kicking out time.


Oh, and I meant Rat Run but only in the sense of a road that is used as an escape route to bypass bottlenecks, if taken in a derogatory sense, why?

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The Rookie
post Thu, 23 Aug 2018 - 14:14
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 18:10) *
if taken in a derogatory sense, why?

The name creates a negative intonation, that's why I dislike the phrase.

Noting we had a local housing estate where residents were complaining about drivers using it as a 'rat run' turns out most lived on the estate anyway, they were just leaping to uninformed conclusions.


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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 23 Aug 2018 - 18:23
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The problem with schools is surely one of education. Honestly at school kicking out time anyone with a brain cell should know to drive slower, and the rest of the time they are able to drive quicker.

The simple fact is that a significant chunk of drivers can't do that which is why we have ended up with the ridiculous situation of speed limits being slapped everywhere. Whilst it would be lovely to get rid of them, you need to work out how to deal with the totally inept drivers first. We all know one, and honestly sometimes it seems to be treated as a joke "haha Dani got her car wedged trying to drive across a pedestrian bridge", "haha Dani smashed her car because she didn't realise the dual carriageway was ending and drove into the central reservation" (there are a lot more Dani ones).

The secondary school I went to was right on the edge of a town, on a road which was a nice cut through to the M25. I remember there were several collisions, including one boy who got run over, because people used to hare along even at 3.45pm. You can see why authorities get pressure to do something in those sorts of situations.
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ex-216
post Thu, 23 Aug 2018 - 20:21
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"What about the other 90% of the time (4 hours a day for 195 days) when there is necessarily no need for a 20mph restriction at a school "

A more pragmatic approach is required, when I lived in Germany, outside schools was a 30Kph limit, 0700-1900 Mon-Fri. Outside of this it was 50Kph. This was to allow for early drop offs for breakfast type clubs and for after school clubs. During school holidays, the restriction was lifted as the signs were covered. However, I don't get the feeling this would happen over here as councils would say it's a drain on their limited resources.
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DancingDad
post Thu, 23 Aug 2018 - 20:39
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QUOTE (ex-216 @ Thu, 23 Aug 2018 - 21:21) *
"What about the other 90% of the time (4 hours a day for 195 days) when there is necessarily no need for a 20mph restriction at a school "

A more pragmatic approach is required, when I lived in Germany, outside schools was a 30Kph limit, 0700-1900 Mon-Fri. Outside of this it was 50Kph. This was to allow for early drop offs for breakfast type clubs and for after school clubs. During school holidays, the restriction was lifted as the signs were covered. However, I don't get the feeling this would happen over here as councils would say it's a drain on their limited resources.



Near to us is a well used road with a secondary school half way along and a primary at the end.

The primary has attendant lollipop lady morning and evening to help kids/parents cross.
It has had flashing "20mph when lights flash" signs for as long as I can remember.
Lollipop lady would reach up, flick a switch and they would flash.
Between the lady and the lights plus junction onto main road, never a real issue with speed.
Lights now come on automatically, even during holidays though not at weekends.


Secondary now also has automatic "20mph" flashing signs.
Personally I cannot see any safety improvement.
No one can get up to 20 at school run time with cars parked both sides and traffic reduced to single lane anyway.
And guess where the two vehicle passing spot is?
Yup, yellow zigzags, right outside the gate rolleyes.gif

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Guest_Charlie1010_*
post Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 18:50
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Sign of the times with all the disrespectful drivers many who don’t deserve a licence.
The lollipop lady at our primary school left because she was hit by a car overtaking stationary traffic queuing at the zebra crossing.
I too have been overtaken whilst waiting at the crossing with children crossing. Twice in the last year.
Once by a white van and once by a Porsche.
I beeped the Porsche driver who then constantly brake checked me for the next mile into town as he ended up in front of me. Thereby not gaining much progress.
I’ve seen driving standards drop significantly over the last 40 years I have been driving, riding motorbikes and hauling heavy loads.
I would agree there needs to be more enforcement in the right places, education for the ignorant and for those selfish and arrogant drivers who, if they do get caught, heftier punishment.

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Ocelot
post Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 17:59
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QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Fri, 24 Aug 2018 - 19:50) *
Sign of the times with all the disrespectful drivers many who don’t deserve a licence.
The lollipop lady at our primary school left because she was hit by a car overtaking stationary traffic queuing at the zebra crossing.
I too have been overtaken whilst waiting at the crossing with children crossing. Twice in the last year.
Once by a white van and once by a Porsche.
I beeped the Porsche driver who then constantly brake checked me for the next mile into town as he ended up in front of me. Thereby not gaining much progress.
I’ve seen driving standards drop significantly over the last 40 years I have been driving, riding motorbikes and hauling heavy loads.
I would agree there needs to be more enforcement in the right places, education for the ignorant and for those selfish and arrogant drivers who, if they do get caught, heftier punishment.


The Porsche driver wouldn't like that!

Maybe it's me, but drivers seem to be much more impatient and hostile these days. Possibly I think that because I'm getting older, but fortunately I haven't yet found the need to don on a high-viz shirt and hold a hair dryer out in the face on oncoming traffic...
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Guest_Charlie1010_*
post Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 18:28
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Perhaps one solution would be to reduce the points needed for totting up down to 9. Then maybe there would be more attention to driving properly and with respect for other road users.
I was beeping more as a warning to him and the children on the crossing. Not to tell him off. But he didn’t take it that way obviously. They were so lucky not to have been killed by someone who wasn’t really in a hurry or he wouldn’t have been the piece of door furniture he was.
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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 22:57
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QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Sat, 25 Aug 2018 - 19:28) *
Perhaps one solution would be to reduce the points needed for totting up down to 9. Then maybe there would be more attention to driving properly and with respect for other road users.
I was beeping more as a warning to him and the children on the crossing. Not to tell him off. But he didn’t take it that way obviously. They were so lucky not to have been killed by someone who wasn’t really in a hurry or he wouldn’t have been the piece of door furniture he was.

Or just have it as it is in many countries where there is a much larger range of (for example) speeds that attract different points before it needs to go to court.

The issue is that it is clearly a different offence to be caught doing 35mph vs 49mph in a 30mph limit, but at the moment they are treated identically.

You are right though that some people's driving is shocking. When I was on my bike a couple of weeks ago I stopped for a pedestrian crossing a zebra crossing. The car behind me decided to overtake at speed. I thought the pedestrian was going to have a heart attack. As normal I caught up with him at the second next set of traffic lights anyway. You rarely gain much from aggressive driving.
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Neil B
post Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 20:51
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Sorry late to the party but I've just been informed in the pub, very firmly, as 'bloke in pub' knows, that
this was implemented 3 days ago.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 22:08
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 21:51) *
Sorry late to the party but I've just been informed in the pub, very firmly, as 'bloke in pub' knows, that
this was implemented 3 days ago.

Jeez that bloke gets around. Is it the one who has a string of traffic offences all of which are the fault of the police for obscure reasons?

I really feel for him, the police seem to be picking on him for nothing more than a continual inability to follow the Highway Code. What a bunch of bastards.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 15:02
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 21:51) *
Sorry late to the party but I've just been informed in the pub, very firmly, as 'bloke in pub' knows, that
this was implemented 3 days ago.

Yeah that was all over the press..... oh wait......


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