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PCN due to change of location code
Son of Captain A
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 11:44
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Hi all,

PCN received through the post.

The driver parks fairly often in a space by a gym they use. There are green visitors bays. The driver pays via the app - the payment didn't go through as the app kicked back an error regardless of which payment method the driver tried (bank card, Android pay).

It was chucking it down so the driver didn't go to check the sign for the number, just figured they'd chance it as it was always a parking warden there rather than ANPR and they've parked there a few times without getting a ticket.

Lo and behold the keeper got a ticket through the post.

The driver went back to check the signs at the weekend (all located min 30 metres from the parking bay and not lit as can be seen in the photos which their camera did brighten) and saw that they had actually changed the parking location code by putting stickers over the top of the number. The app autocompletes the location code and name.

We imagine there's nothing that they can do but thought it worth a shot so any help would be great and please just shout if they've missed any vital info.

Images below - hope they suffice.

Thanks in advance.











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post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 11:44
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The Rookie
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 12:41
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If the App is meant to auto detect location and fails to that's a failing by their chosen agent, that's not the drivers fault.

Is there any scope to enter manually?

Edit your post above NOW, refer to the drivers actions as by 'the driver' you are the vehicle keeper, a different legal entity.


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Son of Captain A
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 12:52
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Edited, thanks.

There is scope to enter manually.


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doreen4161
post Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 22:09
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Have you tried to get the gym to cancel this. ?
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Son of Captain A
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 07:10
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Why would they do that?


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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 09:16
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Because the gym would like the perosn driving to contiunue using the gym, usually.
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Son of Captain A
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 09:44
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There’s plenty of public transport around etc. Fairly sure they won’t care.


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Redivi
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 10:18
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Doreen and Nosferatu are referring to your continued membership of an organisation that lets a parking company charge members a minimum £60 when its own payment system is the cause of the problem
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The Rookie
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 10:38
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Depends if its a 'space by a gym' as mentioned in the first post or 'the gym's car park' which I suspect not as they are usually free to users.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 11:26
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QUOTE (Son of Captain A @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 10:44) *
There’s plenty of public transport around etc. Fairly sure they won’t care.

They wont care if the member cancels their membership and goes elsewhere?
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ostell
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 13:46
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I would say that the PCN is not POFA compliant. 9 (2) (e) is not there for a starter.
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Son of Captain A
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 13:52
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It's a shared car park between various offices, a gym and a climbing centre.

@ostell - could you expand?

Thanks all


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bearclaw
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 13:57
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Look up schedule 4 of the protection of freedom act 2012. Find section 9(2)(e) and see whats missing. There is required text etc that MUST be there or keeper liability cannot be established
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Son of Captain A
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:08
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Hopefully the keeper is missing something:

Schedule 4 of the protection of freedom act 2012, 9(2)(e):

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—
(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or
(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;


From the parking ticket:

"As we do not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and having reasonable cause that a contravention occurred through a breach of the car park terms and licensing conditions, the vehicle details were passed to the driver and the Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) and your details were requested as the Registered Keeper on the date of the event. Or the Registered Keeper has named you as the driver on the date of the event"

The only difference the keeper can see is that is doesn't explicitly state that the Registered Keeper may pay the unpaid parking charges.

This post has been edited by Son of Captain A: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:21


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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:13
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The driver does absolutley nothing
The KEEPER is the only person who is handling this ticket
Even if the driver and keeper are the same person, the parking co cannot know that is the case unless they are told.
So
EDIT YOUR POST, NOW

The "only" differnce is the really material one, which is that they are not inviting the keeper to pay NOR are they asking the keeper to send the name and address along.
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Son of Captain A
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:23
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 12:41) *
If the App is meant to auto detect location and fails to that's a failing by their chosen agent, that's not the drivers fault.

Is there any scope to enter manually?

Edit your post above NOW, refer to the drivers actions as by 'the driver' you are the vehicle keeper, a different legal entity.



QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:13) *
The driver does absolutley nothing
The KEEPER is the only person who is handling this ticket
Even if the driver and keeper are the same person, the parking co cannot know that is the case unless they are told.
So
EDIT YOUR POST, NOW

The "only" differnce is the really material one, which is that they are not inviting the keeper to pay NOR are they asking the keeper to send the name and address along.


Edited, thank you.



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Redivi
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:28
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:13) *
The driver does absolutley nothing
The KEEPER is the only person who is handling this ticket
Even if the driver and keeper are the same person, the parking co cannot know that is the case unless they are told.
So
EDIT YOUR POST, NOW

The "only" differnce is the really material one, which is that they are not inviting the keeper to pay NOR are they asking the keeper to send the name and address along.

The really really material one is whether it warns that they will have the right to recover payment from the keeper if they don't have a name and address for the driver
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Son of Captain A
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:38
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:28) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:13) *
The driver does absolutley nothing
The KEEPER is the only person who is handling this ticket
Even if the driver and keeper are the same person, the parking co cannot know that is the case unless they are told.
So
EDIT YOUR POST, NOW

The "only" differnce is the really material one, which is that they are not inviting the keeper to pay NOR are they asking the keeper to send the name and address along.

The really really material one is whether it warns that they will have the right to recover payment from the keeper if they don't have a name and address for the driver


It says this in the 'important note' section:

"we do have the right, subject to the requirements of the act to recover from the registered keeper the amount that remains outstanding"


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The Rookie
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:48
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Reading the scans and assuming the details blanked out times are present I'd suggest it's substantially compliant with PoFA.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Son of Captain A
post Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:51
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 14:48) *
Reading the scans and assuming the details blanked out times are present I'd suggest it's substantially compliant with PoFA.


Indeed, times are blanked out.


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