William Morris Car Park Battery Charging Bay, PCN for Non Electric Car Parking Options

[zexx]

Hi All,

My wife parked in a bay reserved for electric cars. She thought the chargers were swipe and pay parking meters. Fallen leaves were covering the white car signs. She honestly didn't twig that the two spaces were only empty because they were meant for electric cars only. She purchased a ticket using the cash machine. I returned later that day and took photographs.

Do I have a chance of not paying this PCN?

Thank you in advance.





















This post has been edited by zexx: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 - 16:37

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[stamfordman]

Will be hard to get out of this with the parking sign. But can ask for discretion concerning leaves and also that sign is between two bays. At the end of the day this is an honest mistake.

[hcandersen]

We need the noticeboard to see the Ts and Cs.

With respect, the traffic sign means nothing without the noticeboard referring to marked bays.

How would you know that the sign referred to any bay and even if it did why to a bay 2 to the right as we look at it?

We start off with the noticeboard bringing motorists' attention to marked bays and then the marked bays.

IMO, the sign is superfluous.

But we need the Ts and Cs on the board.

[zexx]

Will look for the T's & C's tomorrow and report back with a photo.

[Longtime Lurker]

This might just be my bias as an electric car owner, but to me it's the paint in the bays that is superfluous. It's not mandatory that electric bays have any particular painted markings on them, so it makes no difference if the paint is covered up or even not there at all.

There's a large, obvious sign there which your wife ignored. Hcandersen says "How would you know that the sign referred to any bay", to which I'd reply 'what makes you think it doesn't apply to all the bays in that row?'

I hope your wife does get off the fine on a technicality, as that sort of thing will make councils sign electric car bays more clearly, but please do ask her to be a bit more observant in future. I don't park my electric car blocking pumps at petrol stations, so please return the favour and don't block charging points!

[hcandersen]

This is not on-street.

There are no 'traffic signs' as defined in the Traffic Signs etc. Regs or RTRA. IF a council chooses to use a sign then it MUST bring the type and meaning to the motorist's attention on the noticeboard.

The only terms and conditions of use are those stated on the board, nothing is imported from the Highway Code or Traffic Signs etc. regs.

And to be pedantic, the sign refers to 'vehicle' in the singular and there is no reference to its scope. Taken at face value, it can only be linked with the bay in which it is situated and no other.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 - 07:37

[cp8759]

And to be pedantic, the sign refers to 'vehicle' in the singular and there is no reference to its scope. Taken at face value, it can only be linked with the bay in which it is situated and no other.

+1

[zexx]

Ts and Cs added.

My wife is careful and never takes liberties, I assure you.

It was a mistake.

And to be pedantic, the sign refers to 'vehicle' in the singular and there is no reference to its scope. Taken at face value, it can only be linked with the bay in which it is situated and no other.

Valid point! Is it enough? I think so.


I have just looked at LBWF's photographs and they have her in the said bay with the sign. Will that make a difference?

Do you want me to upload their photos too?

Here's one:



This post has been edited by zexx: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 - 17:15

[Neil B]

Ts and Cs added.

HCA will be interested in that!

@HCA.
For info; these bays are very new: last 6 weeks or so.

[cp8759]

T&Cs don't support contravention. If they feel necessary to state that you can't parked in a disabled bay without a disabled BB, why don't they state that you can't park in an electric charging bay without charging?

I also agree the sign is only relevant to the bay it is directly in front of. Putting it another way, if it were a disabled sign, you wouldn't assume all the bays in that row were for BB holders only.

[PASTMYBEST]

No contravention cited on the T&C board will be the strongest point

[Longtime Lurker]

No contravention cited on the T&C board will be the strongest point

Playing devils advocate here... surely this this is "vi) Parked in restricted areas", and the bay in question is directly in front of the sign?

This post has been edited by Longtime Lurker: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 - 19:55

[Churchmouse]

Playing devils advocate here... surely this this is "vi) Parked in restricted areas", and the bay in question is directly in front of the sign?

Well, in that case, the restriction is applicable at all times--and does not exempt electric vehicles!

--Churchmouse

[Longtime Lurker]

Surely it's restricted in the way the sign says? Or if you're right the OP doesn't have a defence?

[PASTMYBEST]

Surely it's restricted in the way the sign says? Or if you're right the OP doesn't have a defence?

parked in a restricted area is an entirely different contravention. The OP only has to defend against the contravention cited

[zexx]

Do I say at my first representation that no contravention occurred due to the Ts and Cs not stating that parking is only allowed to electric cars being charged?

I think I've got it.

Will let you know how I get on...

This post has been edited by zexx: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 - 09:07

[cp8759]

Do I say at my first representation that no contravention occurred due to the Ts and Cs not stating that parking is restricted to electric cars?

Yes, and post a draft here before sending it to the council.

[Wretched Rectum]

Ts and Cs added.

HCA will be interested in that!

@HCA.
For info; these bays are very new: last 6 weeks or so.

IF Neil is right it explains why the car park notice boards have not yet been changed to reflect electric charging bays and there is a good chance that the parking places order has not yet been amended to reflect these new electric charging bays.

[hcandersen]

I won one against Worthing recently (D-i-L) on the same issue.

There is a sign staring permit holders and there are bays of a different colour, but no mention of permit parking on the Ts and Cs or the order. After the normal Worthing thrashing about and denials they cancelled and have amended the board. Presumably they'll amend the order as well.

NB. all parking in a car park is subject to restrictions, therefore restricted. The unqualified use of the term 'restricted area' therefore doesn't really seem to add anything to the mix.

And to add to the authority's problem, would someone tell me what 'Electric vehicle recharging point only at all times / 8am - 6.30pm ' means?

It's either all times or part-time, or never!

[zexx]

I won one against Worthing recently (D-i-L) on the same issue.

Very pleased to hear it.


Will this be okay?:

Dear Sir/Madam,

My wife thought that she parked her car in a normal bay. She assumed the chargers were swipe and pay parking meters. Fallen leaves were covering the white car markings. She honestly wasn't aware that some spaces had been redesigned for electric cars. She purchased a ticket using the cash machine.

I returned later that day and took photographs.

I have read the car park Ts and Cs and I believe that NO contravention occurred due to the Ts and Cs not stating that parking is restricted to electric cars. All parking in a car park is subject to restrictions, therefore restricted.

This post has been edited by zexx: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 - 10:12