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[NIP Wizard] adudefromchepstow
adudefromchepsto...
post Wed, 3 Mar 2021 - 21:41
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: -
Date of the NIP: -
Date you received the NIP: -
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): -
Was the NIP addressed to you? -
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? -
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? -
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales
- Wales

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 03 Mar 2021 21:41:16 +0000
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post Wed, 3 Mar 2021 - 21:41
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Ahelpinggand
post Fri, 19 Mar 2021 - 22:30
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Realistically/practically not really.

You could set up cameras to record your speedometer in conjunction with GPS readings.

We have had a case a few months ago where police admitted 'human error' when someone had dashcam which showed the HUD speed.

In that case however there was a v discrepancy in the speed travelled and the speed alleged

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NewJudge
post Sat, 20 Mar 2021 - 10:30
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The main issue is that the defendant has to prove that the device used by the police cannot be relied upon, not that other methods of measurement can.
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cp8759
post Sun, 21 Mar 2021 - 23:12
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QUOTE (adudefromchepstow @ Fri, 19 Mar 2021 - 21:51) *
Dear Experts,
Recently as you will see in another thread, my speed was incorrectly measured. The Police are frequently at this known position so I want to replicate what happened on that occasion.

Is there a device available that I could have in my vehicle that will 100% confirm the speed that my vehicle is doing at any given time over a short measured distance?

If there is such a device, how much would I be looking at?

If you wanted to challenge the police's evidence, you could hire your own experts to analyse the enforcement video. This would involve forgoing all out-of-court disposal options as you'd need the case to go to court in order to request disclosure of the video, as opposed to a couple of stills, and expert evidence is likely to cost you thousands of pounds. However if you know i.e. are absolutely certain beyond the shadow of a doubt that you were not speeding and therefore the measurement must be wrong, you may think it's worth it. Of course if you lose you'll be on the hook for the CPS's costs, and they will spare no expense.

But in theory, if the measurement is wrong, photogrammetry should be able to show the speed reading is unreliable.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sun, 21 Mar 2021 - 23:13


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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 22 Mar 2021 - 00:15
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To be clear, it is impossible to show using photogrammetry that the police reading is incorrect, seeing as the quality of the video will not allow an accurate measurement over the fraction of a second a laser gun makes a measurement.

However, you are only required to prove on balance of probabilities the gun was not working correctly. A calcculation showing that, over a larger period of time any acceleration and deceleration is impossible will do that.

As others have said though it would require an expert witness and experts aren't cheap. However, in a case where you know the result, it arguably has low long term risk.
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cp8759
post Mon, 22 Mar 2021 - 10:32
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These guys are reportedly quite good, the police seem to use them a lot https://www.roadsafetysupport.co.uk/ and if you instruct them first, then they can't act for the police. I can send you their price list if you'd like.

If you want to go down this route, you'll need to refuse any out of court disposal (driver improvement course, fixed penalty), go to court and plead not guilty. You will then need to request the Initial Details of the Prosecution Case which should include the video, but if not you'll need to ask for it. You then hand it over to the expert and he prepares a report. If the expert says the speed measurement is fine then you'd realistically want to change your plea to guilty and face the music, if the report says the device can't be relied upon then you go to trial where the evidence you have is your testimony that you weren't speeding, and the expert's testimony that the police's speed measurement cannot be relied upon.

Of course, you can expect the CPS to turn up with their own experts to prove the opposite, unless they accept the reading was wrong (in which case they would drop the case).


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