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UKPC Charge, In private bay at my rented flat
boro12856
post Tue, 27 Aug 2013 - 10:43
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Hi all, spent a while reading various threads but thought I had best ask for my own personal advice.

Me and my partner rent a flat which has a gated entrance and you have your own space (corresponding to flat number) ours is in the underground section. We had a parking permit which has the number of the space on it to display on a daily basis.

Recently the gates to the carpark have been 'broken' and one side is constantly left open, which now has resulted in three UKPC notices in the space of two weeks.

We currently only have her car at the flat and I very rarely use the car, both occasions I have used it and returned to our parking bay I have once forgotten to put the parking permit on the dashboard, returning to the car next morning to see we had a ticket given to us around 4am for not displaying permit. And the second one for the same reason this time however I am 100% certain the permit was placed on the dashboard, however it wasn't there the next morning and another ticket was given (again around 4am, these idiots love a nightshift)

The third notice we had received was when we had friends staying for a weekend, we have a visitor permit too, which we were not given any advice about how long this could be used for by our landlord. All we were told is that if using a visitor permit please park in the disabled bays. Now this permit was used constantly for around 2 weeks when we first moved in as we had two cars then, and no problems. I have also noticed other cars at the flats always in the disabled spots and not disabled drivers.

But one weekend we gave our permit to friends to park downstairs and my girlfriend parked her car in the visitors bay, on the second night she received another charge notice this time saying that she had over stayed her welcome in the visitors bay.

Now I am just looking for what to do with these pieces of paper I have been given, as there is NO WAY I will be paying them a penny! We need to use an electric fob to gain access to the carpark, and our parking spot corresponds with our flat number. So if they are coming in EVERY NIGHT they must see the car in the same bay using the permit, yet the ONE occasions I genuinely know I forgot to display the permit a ticket is slapped straight on. It is funny however how the influx of tickets corresponds with the gated entrance been broken.

Thanks for any help.

Regards
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post Tue, 27 Aug 2013 - 10:43
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Ollyfrog
post Thu, 3 Jan 2019 - 15:51
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Interestingly (but as Nosferatu says, not relevant) is the bullet point where they can take court action against drivers (or owners). No mention of keepers/registered keepers. If the car was leased they'd be up the creek (although that would never stop them trying it on just the same.)
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boro12856
post Fri, 4 Jan 2019 - 22:15
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QUOTE (bearclaw @ Thu, 3 Jan 2019 - 14:46) *
Stop being nice to them. If you make it very prickly then they might think this is too painful to swallow.

These people work by pressure, and with frive tickets they will pile it on. If you fold - youa re an easy markl and they wont let go they will be coming back for more. So please don't give in - you will probably have to go to court and it is not at all a scarey environment. It's a room with a judge in a suit, you one side of a large table and the scum from the PPC on the other side of the table.

Dear SCS,

Take note, by virtue of the 1999 Third Parties Act clause contained in my lease as supplied (supply relevant part), as a non-party to the lease, UKPC cannot enforce any term of the lease.

The actions of your client UKPC over the preceding period of times, including trespass on <list all dates tickets were laid on the car> are in contravention of and are in fact tortuitous intereference in the quiet enjoyment that I benefit from in regards to the parking space in the lease. Take note that if your client is imprudent enough to continue with the vexatious threat to litigate on this matter, I will robustly defend and will consider suing in my own capacity for damages for such tortuitous interference.

Yours etc.



I'd await comments from others before sending it though. It might just make them realise you wont back down - at this point it might be a case of who blinks first.


Only issue is that this is regarding a visitors space and not my parking space. I would like to send something of this ilk to them though as a final email before the court letter will arrive in a weeks time I think.
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boro12856
post Fri, 4 Jan 2019 - 22:38
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 3 Jan 2019 - 15:41) *
No
Their contract isn't relevant as it has no ability to override your lease.


But isnt in my case the lease not any help in the case of me winning? The lease does not have anything regarding the visitors parking etc just the one parking space which was used by my vehicle (I also received many PCN as I never displayed permit) But I sent one strong worded letter and they all got dropped, unfortunately this wasnt the case for my partner who was using the visitors spaces.
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boro12856
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 10:57
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Morning all, I have sent a reply to SCS to acknowledge receipt of their latest letter of the instruction to issue CC and also to UKPC this morning as going through the SAR I was sent by UKPC I was not fully satisfied that I have been sent all information and again I requested them to answer as to why they told the MA that they could not cancel the charges as pointed out by SRM back on post 98.

Does anyone believe it maybe worth my salt trying to contact the management agent again requesting the charges to be dropped again? Maybe mentioning the fact that the contract I was sent through the SAR shows it had expired? Just I read over on the MSE forum in the NEWBIE section that at this stage now (with the CC due to drop on our doorstep next week) it is worth complaining to them to get the charges cancelled.

TIA
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Churchmouse
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 13:08
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QUOTE (boro12856 @ Thu, 3 Jan 2019 - 15:03) *
Contract MA & PPC

See above, should I ask if they can produce another contract? This contract was sent with the SAR to UKPC to provide all information they will reference to on the case, and I cannot see anywhere where it includes an extension.

I would. I would also question the evidentiary value of a redacted contract which purposely omits a critical term: the name of the other party! They no doubt have dozens of parking service contracts with landowners and managing agents around the UK, so the fact that they apparently have one with [OMITTED] is simply irrelevant to the case at hand. The critical question is whether they have been authorised to provide parking services at your location--such an authorisation can only be valid if given by the landowner or managing agent at that location. Since you already know who the landowner and the managing agent are (or can find out), the redaction of the other party's name is inexplicable. The only rational reason I can think of for doing that would be if their service agreement is actually with a third party--which would call into question their "authorisation" to provide parking services at that location at all.

--Churchmouse
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boro12856
post Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 13:35
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 13:08) *
QUOTE (boro12856 @ Thu, 3 Jan 2019 - 15:03) *
Contract MA & PPC

See above, should I ask if they can produce another contract? This contract was sent with the SAR to UKPC to provide all information they will reference to on the case, and I cannot see anywhere where it includes an extension.

I would. I would also question the evidentiary value of a redacted contract which purposely omits a critical term: the name of the other party! They no doubt have dozens of parking service contracts with landowners and managing agents around the UK, so the fact that they apparently have one with [OMITTED] is simply irrelevant to the case at hand. The critical question is whether they have been authorised to provide parking services at your location--such an authorisation can only be valid if given by the landowner or managing agent at that location. Since you already know who the landowner and the managing agent are (or can find out), the redaction of the other party's name is inexplicable. The only rational reason I can think of for doing that would be if their service agreement is actually with a third party--which would call into question their "authorisation" to provide parking services at that location at all.

--Churchmouse


Sorry Churchmouse, that was myself who redacted the client and location information just incase it allowed sensitive information regarding the case to be posted on a public forum. Maybe just being too cautious? The info I was sent does show the location of services and the client details.
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Churchmouse
post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 15:10
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QUOTE (boro12856 @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 13:35) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sat, 5 Jan 2019 - 13:08) *
QUOTE (boro12856 @ Thu, 3 Jan 2019 - 15:03) *
Contract MA & PPC

See above, should I ask if they can produce another contract? This contract was sent with the SAR to UKPC to provide all information they will reference to on the case, and I cannot see anywhere where it includes an extension.

I would. I would also question the evidentiary value of a redacted contract which purposely omits a critical term: the name of the other party! They no doubt have dozens of parking service contracts with landowners and managing agents around the UK, so the fact that they apparently have one with [OMITTED] is simply irrelevant to the case at hand. The critical question is whether they have been authorised to provide parking services at your location--such an authorisation can only be valid if given by the landowner or managing agent at that location. Since you already know who the landowner and the managing agent are (or can find out), the redaction of the other party's name is inexplicable. The only rational reason I can think of for doing that would be if their service agreement is actually with a third party--which would call into question their "authorisation" to provide parking services at that location at all.

--Churchmouse


Sorry Churchmouse, that was myself who redacted the client and location information just incase it allowed sensitive information regarding the case to be posted on a public forum. Maybe just being too cautious? The info I was sent does show the location of services and the client details.

LOL, okay, then just ignore the above! As long as your copy shows the relevant details, it's fine.

--Churchmouse
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