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Council PCN received please help!, Photos from warden dont prove anything
Geordie2806
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 15:36
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Hi,

This is my first ever parking ticket and I received it last night when picking up a takeaway. The ticket was for parking in a disabled bay which I absolutely would never do if I had realised that it was that type of bay. I have been back to check the bay today and it seems to be marked correctly if a bit faded. In the dark and rain I have failed to notice it was a disabled bay.

Anyway I’ve returned to the car to see the wardens processing the ticket. The reason I want to appeal is because the pictures they have posted about the ticket do not show at all that I was parked in a disabled bay. They are totally black apart from my car in the picture. Is this grounds to appeal?

I can post pictures of their evidence if required.

Thanks
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post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 15:36
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stamfordman
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 15:41
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Pictures are not needed - it's the CEO's notes that will do. But certainly show us the bay on Google Street View and any pic of yours as signage must be clear.

But it may be your lucky day - that PCN is printed badly out of registration in places and statutory details may be obscured. Others will comment.
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Geordie2806
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 15:54
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Yeah its not printed very well at all. I was only parked up for a couple of minutes so he’s frantically printing the ticket as I’m walking up to the car. If the PCN photo evidence isnt required then I am pretty sure I am liable for the offence, as after checking in the light today, the bay is properly marked on the road.

I have attached the wardens pic anyway so you can see how bad it is

Thanks for replying
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stamfordman
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 16:10
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You could check the car park terms - is it operational at 19:00?

According to this - or is the car park patrolled for certain bays after 18:00 or is this info out of date:

Whitley Road Car Park

Mon - Fri 8.00 - 18.00 Maximum stay 2 hours with no return with 4 hours

http://my.northtyneside.gov.uk/sites/defau...Changes_0_0.pdf
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hcandersen
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 16:18
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The contravention relates to a car park, not a road!

And the order is here:

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...neside/NH23.pdf

And restrictions apply 24/7.

OP, on entering and parking you were obliged to consult the conditions of use displayed. If these stated that marked disabled bays were only for the use of vehicles displaying a BB and if the bay was marked - whether you were diligent in checking is not the issue - and if you were not displaying a BB and if you left the car park, then you're bang to rights.
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Geordie2806
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 16:52
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Yeah it looks like I am in the wrong for sure and will pay the fine asap.

Does the badly printed ticket do anything for my case at all?
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disgrunt
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 20:40
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In my opinion it does. The bad printing makes important information unreadable.

I would make an informal challenge stating it was dark and wet and couldn’t see the markings clearly and ask the council to use its discretion etc. The discount should be held whilst they consider your challenge so there is nothing to lose.

Then include in the letter that as the ticket hasn’t printed properly it should be cancelled anyway. Include a photo copy of only the top half of the ticket (so only have the misprint)
If you take it to adjudication the council won’t be able to produce a true copy of the pcn so you should win.

However, I am a novice compared to other posters so wait to see if the regulars offer something first.
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Geordie2806
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 21:07
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Thank you. Your advice is much appreciated. Will wait to see what others say but I agree its at least worth an informal appeal.

Like you say its a no lose so why not.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 21:17
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QUOTE (Geordie2806 @ Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 21:07) *
Thank you. Your advice is much appreciated. Will wait to see what others say but I agree its at least worth an informal appeal.

Like you say its a no lose so why not.


to properly advise we need to see the rest of the PCN, There is information not there but it would be normal for this to be on the back.

The only thing missing/unclear that you would expect on the front is.


g) that the penalty charge must be paid not later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice was served;


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Geordie2806
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 21:29
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Here is the back of the ticket....
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disgrunt
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 21:32
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 21:17) *
to properly advise we need to see the rest of the PCN, There is information not there but it would be normal for this to be on the back.

The only thing missing/unclear that you would expect on the front is.


g) that the penalty charge must be paid not later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice was served;


Arguably, everything below the words payment slip to the council's name, crest and words "Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) is missing. The stuff above that is the "payment slip" (or so it claims) and so does not form part of the PCN.

My recommendation is to send a photo copy of what the council would consider the top of the PCN with the informal challenge.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 21:38
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You could make an argument that there is further information missing re what to do on receipt of a NTO. But it is there, albeit on the tear off strip. The high court has found that the tear off strip is not part of the PCN.
trouble is in this case the printer is so badly misaligned that it appears twice so an adjudicator might find you somewhat disingenuous.

i would stick with the first bit. It would be a good bet that if this went to appeal the council would not provide a true copy of the PCN something they are required to do



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Geordie2806
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 21:56
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Ok great. I will send off the appeal tomorrow and update you all with what they comeback with.

Thanks again
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