01: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours : Rear wheel and boot on DYL, Ticketed for having the rear wheel and boot beyond the parking bay |
01: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours : Rear wheel and boot on DYL, Ticketed for having the rear wheel and boot beyond the parking bay |
Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 10:15
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 27 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,262 |
Good morning
Re: CODE 01: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours I was ticketed for having the rear wheel and boot beyond the parking bay. 1) Rear wheels were 8-10 inches overhanging beyond the T-point of the DLY end-point 2) It was a Saturday 3) CEO observed the vehicle for 1 minute between 10:17 to 10:18 printed on PCN 4) Vehicle was parked in this position for 3 -4 minutes 5) 10 pictures taken 10:17:43 Picture of vehicle from rear wheel on DYL 10:17:50 Picture of windshield no PCN 10:18:58 Picture of vehicle from side 10:19:02 Picture of PCN on windshield 10:19:10 Picture of registration number 10:19:15 Picture of drivers side window 10:19:19 Picture of contravention 10:19:29 Picture of PCN print in CEO hand 10:19:39 Picture of PCN print in CEO hand 10:19:48 Picture of PCN print in CEO hand Images: Any advice would be appreciated please. Best regards |
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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 10:15
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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 10:38
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Looks bang to rights on contravention, but you could try De Minimus.
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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 10:44
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 634 Joined: 8 Dec 2012 Member No.: 58,778 |
Why did you park there? There are potential exemptions for loading and assisted boarding / alighting.
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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 14:05
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 27 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,262 |
Why did you park there? There are potential exemptions for loading and assisted boarding / alighting. To withdraw cash from a cash machine 10 meters away. I had a six year old with me and did not want to leave her unattended in the vehicle. So took her with me. |
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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 15:29
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Why did you park there? There are potential exemptions for loading and assisted boarding / alighting. To withdraw cash from a cash machine Which is not on the list of exemptions. -------------------- |
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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 16:33
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 27 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,262 |
Thank you, is the recommendation then to pay up?
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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 19:14
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,860 Joined: 12 May 2012 Member No.: 54,871 |
Thank you, is the recommendation then to pay up? As peteruk said above, you could try a de minimis defence, but the Council are almost certain to reject it, but will re-offer the discount. At that point, it will be a 'double or quits' punt at London Tribunals. Obviously, it's your time and money, but I'd pay up. This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 19:17 |
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Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 21:52
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,055 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Location and GSV pl.
I want to check that the DYL were not placed just to draw attention to the dropped footway but without the benefit of an underlying traffic order restriction. |
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Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 00:38
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
You could try an informal appeal, but if they reject I would not take it further. I very much doubt an adjudicator would accept that as being de-minimis.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 07:31
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 27 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,262 |
Location and GSV pl. I want to check that the DYL were not placed just to draw attention to the dropped footway but without the benefit of an underlying traffic order restriction. Thank you, here it is. Windsor Rd E10 5LP GSV |
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Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 11:41
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,055 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Odd layout of DYL.
Just taking the DYL in question, it's not required, the dropped footway being the required indicator that a parking prohibition exists. For info, this is the prohibition which applies countrywide and is statutory: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/86 Looking across to the opposite side of the road, these DYL are marked wrongly. You have a pair of CPZ signs at the vehicle entrance to Thornhill Gardens, now look at the these DYL. You have one set running across the entrance and others starting by the CPZ signs. An impossible combination, the DYL are required to follow the curve of the kerb because this is (allegedly) carriageway, and not a footway. I know the above sounds technical, but it's given to raise the issue among other posters and to illustrate that the council do not know where to place DYL. And I suspect the same applies where you are. As a minimum, you should challenge on the basis that you accept that you were parked on what on the face of it appears to be a waiting restriction. However, you are challenging on the grounds that: 1. You incursion was trivial and did not go into the prohibited area by the dropped footway; 2. In any event, you believe that the DYL have been placed only to draw attention to the dropped footway, which is a statutory prohibition and does not require any road markings. Consequently, in the absence of any traffic order made by the council under the Road Traffic Regulation Act (which is a mandatory requirement) there is no waiting restriction at the location and therefore the cited contravention could not have occurred. In the event that the authority reject your challenge then they must provide a copy of the restriction from the relevant traffic order. Given that you have with good reason made representations on these grounds, it would be unacceptable for an officer merely conclude that the presence of DYL gives rise to a restriction without having first checked this point. Others will comment. |
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Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 12:17
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 27 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,262 |
As a minimum, you should challenge on the basis that you accept that you were parked on what on the face of it appears to be a waiting restriction. However, you are challenging on the grounds that: Thank you very much hcandersen, appreciate your guidance. I will wait for feedback from others as well. |
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Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 12:23
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I would be doffing my cap and following that advice to the letter.
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 13:52
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
In case of it being of use here's the traffic order:
http://www.walthamforesttraffweb.co.uk/dat...ION%20FINAL.pdf |
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Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 14:22
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 27 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,262 |
I would be doffing my cap and following that advice to the letter. I appreciate the response, Is there a template I can follow? In case of it being of use here's the traffic order: Thank you, is there any specific section i should refer to? @hcandersen Using the text from your reply, is the following draft letter appropriate? Dear Sir RE: PCN_Number As a registered keeper of vehicle XXXXXX, I received a parking ticket on XXXX but I believe the ticket was wrongly issued and I would like to submit an appeal as the alleged contravention did not occur. The PCN referenced above was attached to my vehicle. With alleged offence: "01: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours " The driver accepts that the vehicle was parked on the road with waiting restriction. However, the appeal is on the following basis: 1. The incursion was trivial and did not go into the prohibited area by the dropped footway; 2. The driver believes that the Double Yellow Lines have been placed only to draw attention to the dropped footway, which is a statutory prohibition and does not require any road markings. Consequently, in the absence of any traffic order made by the council under the Road Traffic Regulation Act (which is a mandatory requirement) there is no waiting restriction at the location and therefore the cited contravention could not have occurred. In the event that the Waltham Forest rejects the appeal, it must provide a copy of the restriction section from the relevant traffic order. Given that the I have with good reason made representations on these grounds, it would be unacceptable for an officer to merely conclude that the presence of DYL gives rise to a restriction without having first checked this point. Regards Registered Keeper Name |
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Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 09:18
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 27 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,262 |
Bump
Any feedback please, on the letter above? Thank you. |
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Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 09:28
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I would be doffing my cap and following that advice to the letter. I appreciate the response, Is there a template I can follow? In case of it being of use here's the traffic order: Thank you, is there any specific section i should refer to? @hcandersen Using the text from your reply, is the following draft letter appropriate? Dear Sir RE: PCN_Number As a registered keeper of vehicle XXXXXX, I received a parking ticket on XXXX but I believe the ticket was wrongly issued and I would like to submit an appeal as the alleged contravention did not occur. The PCN referenced above was attached to my vehicle. With alleged offence: "01: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours " The driver accepts that the vehicle was parked on the road with what appear to be valid waiting restriction. road marking However, the appeal is on the following basis: 1. The incursion was trivial and did not go into the prohibited area by the dropped footway; 2. The driver believes that the Double Yellow Lines have been placed only to draw attention to the dropped footway, which is a statutory prohibition and does not require any road markings. Consequently, in the absence of any traffic order made by the council under the Road Traffic Regulation Act (which is a mandatory requirement) there is no waiting restriction at the location and therefore the cited contravention could not have occurred. In the event that the Waltham Forest rejects the appeal, it must provide a copy of the restriction section from the relevant traffic order. Given that the I have with good reason made representations on these grounds, it would be unacceptable for an officer to merely conclude that the presence of DYL gives rise to a restriction without having first checked this point. Regards Registered Keeper Name Add the red -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 08:29
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 34 Joined: 27 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,262 |
Thank you, appeal sent. I will provide an update on response.
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Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 15:43
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
In case of it being of use here's the traffic order: http://www.walthamforesttraffweb.co.uk/dat...ION%20FINAL.pdf 404 error -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 15:55
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
In case of it being of use here's the traffic order: http://www.walthamforesttraffweb.co.uk/dat...ION%20FINAL.pdf 404 error Not on mu PC or my laptop. PDF opens. -------------------- |
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