PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

01: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours : Rear wheel and boot on DYL, Ticketed for having the rear wheel and boot beyond the parking bay
sir.liegelord
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 10:15
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 27 Mar 2018
Member No.: 97,262



Good morning

Re: CODE 01: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours

I was ticketed for having the rear wheel and boot beyond the parking bay.

1) Rear wheels were 8-10 inches overhanging beyond the T-point of the DLY end-point
2) It was a Saturday
3) CEO observed the vehicle for 1 minute between 10:17 to 10:18 printed on PCN
4) Vehicle was parked in this position for 3 -4 minutes
5) 10 pictures taken
10:17:43 Picture of vehicle from rear wheel on DYL
10:17:50 Picture of windshield no PCN
10:18:58 Picture of vehicle from side
10:19:02 Picture of PCN on windshield
10:19:10 Picture of registration number
10:19:15 Picture of drivers side window
10:19:19 Picture of contravention
10:19:29 Picture of PCN print in CEO hand
10:19:39 Picture of PCN print in CEO hand
10:19:48 Picture of PCN print in CEO hand

Images:


Any advice would be appreciated please.

Best regards

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 10:15
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
peterguk
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 10:38
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



Looks bang to rights on contravention, but you could try De Minimus.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
disgrunt
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 10:44
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 634
Joined: 8 Dec 2012
Member No.: 58,778



Why did you park there? There are potential exemptions for loading and assisted boarding / alighting.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sir.liegelord
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 14:05
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 27 Mar 2018
Member No.: 97,262



QUOTE (disgrunt @ Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 11:44) *
Why did you park there? There are potential exemptions for loading and assisted boarding / alighting.


To withdraw cash from a cash machine 10 meters away. I had a six year old with me and did not want to leave her unattended in the vehicle. So took her with me.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 15:29
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (sir.liegelord @ Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 15:05) *
QUOTE (disgrunt @ Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 11:44) *
Why did you park there? There are potential exemptions for loading and assisted boarding / alighting.


To withdraw cash from a cash machine


Which is not on the list of exemptions.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sir.liegelord
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 16:33
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 27 Mar 2018
Member No.: 97,262



Thank you, is the recommendation then to pay up?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DastardlyDick
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 19:14
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,860
Joined: 12 May 2012
Member No.: 54,871



QUOTE (sir.liegelord @ Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 17:33) *
Thank you, is the recommendation then to pay up?


As peteruk said above, you could try a de minimis defence, but the Council are almost certain to reject it, but will re-offer the discount.
At that point, it will be a 'double or quits' punt at London Tribunals. Obviously, it's your time and money, but I'd pay up.

This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 19:17
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 21:52
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 35,055
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



Location and GSV pl.

I want to check that the DYL were not placed just to draw attention to the dropped footway but without the benefit of an underlying traffic order restriction.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 00:38
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



You could try an informal appeal, but if they reject I would not take it further. I very much doubt an adjudicator would accept that as being de-minimis.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sir.liegelord
post Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 07:31
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 27 Mar 2018
Member No.: 97,262



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 27 Mar 2018 - 22:52) *
Location and GSV pl.

I want to check that the DYL were not placed just to draw attention to the dropped footway but without the benefit of an underlying traffic order restriction.


Thank you, here it is.

Windsor Rd
E10 5LP

GSV
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 11:41
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 35,055
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



Odd layout of DYL.

Just taking the DYL in question, it's not required, the dropped footway being the required indicator that a parking prohibition exists. For info, this is the prohibition which applies countrywide and is statutory:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/86

Looking across to the opposite side of the road, these DYL are marked wrongly. You have a pair of CPZ signs at the vehicle entrance to Thornhill Gardens, now look at the these DYL. You have one set running across the entrance and others starting by the CPZ signs. An impossible combination, the DYL are required to follow the curve of the kerb because this is (allegedly) carriageway, and not a footway.

I know the above sounds technical, but it's given to raise the issue among other posters and to illustrate that the council do not know where to place DYL. And I suspect the same applies where you are.

As a minimum, you should challenge on the basis that you accept that you were parked on what on the face of it appears to be a waiting restriction. However, you are challenging on the grounds that:

1. You incursion was trivial and did not go into the prohibited area by the dropped footway;
2. In any event, you believe that the DYL have been placed only to draw attention to the dropped footway, which is a statutory prohibition and does not require any road markings. Consequently, in the absence of any traffic order made by the council under the Road Traffic Regulation Act (which is a mandatory requirement) there is no waiting restriction at the location and therefore the cited contravention could not have occurred.

In the event that the authority reject your challenge then they must provide a copy of the restriction from the relevant traffic order. Given that you have with good reason made representations on these grounds, it would be unacceptable for an officer merely conclude that the presence of DYL gives rise to a restriction without having first checked this point.

Others will comment.






Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sir.liegelord
post Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 12:17
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 27 Mar 2018
Member No.: 97,262



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 12:41) *
As a minimum, you should challenge on the basis that you accept that you were parked on what on the face of it appears to be a waiting restriction. However, you are challenging on the grounds that:


Thank you very much hcandersen, appreciate your guidance. I will wait for feedback from others as well.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 12:23
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



I would be doffing my cap and following that advice to the letter.



--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stamfordman
post Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 13:52
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 23,582
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



In case of it being of use here's the traffic order:

http://www.walthamforesttraffweb.co.uk/dat...ION%20FINAL.pdf
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sir.liegelord
post Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 14:22
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 27 Mar 2018
Member No.: 97,262



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 13:23) *
I would be doffing my cap and following that advice to the letter.


I appreciate the response, Is there a template I can follow?

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 14:52) *
In case of it being of use here's the traffic order:


Thank you, is there any specific section i should refer to?

@hcandersen

Using the text from your reply, is the following draft letter appropriate?

Dear Sir

RE: PCN_Number

As a registered keeper of vehicle XXXXXX, I received a parking ticket on XXXX but I believe the ticket was wrongly issued and I would like to submit an appeal as the alleged contravention did not occur. The PCN referenced above was attached to my vehicle. With alleged offence: "01: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours "

The driver accepts that the vehicle was parked on the road with waiting restriction. However, the appeal is on the following basis:

1. The incursion was trivial and did not go into the prohibited area by the dropped footway;
2. The driver believes that the Double Yellow Lines have been placed only to draw attention to the dropped footway, which is a statutory prohibition and does not require any road markings. Consequently, in the absence of any traffic order made by the council under the Road Traffic Regulation Act (which is a mandatory requirement) there is no waiting restriction at the location and therefore the cited contravention could not have occurred.

In the event that the Waltham Forest rejects the appeal, it must provide a copy of the restriction section from the relevant traffic order. Given that the I have with good reason made representations on these grounds, it would be unacceptable for an officer to merely conclude that the presence of DYL gives rise to a restriction without having first checked this point.

Regards

Registered Keeper Name
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sir.liegelord
post Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 09:18
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 27 Mar 2018
Member No.: 97,262



Bump

Any feedback please, on the letter above?

Thank you.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 29 Mar 2018 - 09:28
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (sir.liegelord @ Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 15:22) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 13:23) *
I would be doffing my cap and following that advice to the letter.


I appreciate the response, Is there a template I can follow?

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 14:52) *
In case of it being of use here's the traffic order:


Thank you, is there any specific section i should refer to?

@hcandersen

Using the text from your reply, is the following draft letter appropriate?

Dear Sir

RE: PCN_Number

As a registered keeper of vehicle XXXXXX, I received a parking ticket on XXXX but I believe the ticket was wrongly issued and I would like to submit an appeal as the alleged contravention did not occur. The PCN referenced above was attached to my vehicle. With alleged offence: "01: Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours "

The driver accepts that the vehicle was parked on the road with what appear to be valid waiting restriction. road marking However, the appeal is on the following basis:

1. The incursion was trivial and did not go into the prohibited area by the dropped footway;
2. The driver believes that the Double Yellow Lines have been placed only to draw attention to the dropped footway, which is a statutory prohibition and does not require any road markings. Consequently, in the absence of any traffic order made by the council under the Road Traffic Regulation Act (which is a mandatory requirement) there is no waiting restriction at the location and therefore the cited contravention could not have occurred.

In the event that the Waltham Forest rejects the appeal, it must provide a copy of the restriction section from the relevant traffic order. Given that the I have with good reason made representations on these grounds, it would be unacceptable for an officer to merely conclude that the presence of DYL gives rise to a restriction without having first checked this point.

Regards

Registered Keeper Name




Add the red


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sir.liegelord
post Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 08:29
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 27 Mar 2018
Member No.: 97,262



Thank you, appeal sent. I will provide an update on response.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 15:43
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 14:52) *
In case of it being of use here's the traffic order:

http://www.walthamforesttraffweb.co.uk/dat...ION%20FINAL.pdf

404 error


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 15:55
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 3 Apr 2018 - 16:43) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 28 Mar 2018 - 14:52) *
In case of it being of use here's the traffic order:

http://www.walthamforesttraffweb.co.uk/dat...ION%20FINAL.pdf

404 error


Not on mu PC or my laptop. PDF opens.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 12:59
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here