Sold car, received notice of further steps due to not IDing driver |
Sold car, received notice of further steps due to not IDing driver |
Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 20:11
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 4 Dec 2019 Member No.: 106,941 |
Hi all, you were recommended on several pages I've visited trying to piece together what I should do.
I sold my old car several months ago. A few days ago I received a notice of further steps for a fine in the high £800's as I had failed to give identifying information on the driver of the car who was caught speeding. The car was sold and v5 sent off on the day of sale. Obviously there is delay between sending it and updating and I'm not 100 percent sure of the date of sale. The first thing I did was call the dvla for proof I was not the keeper at the time of the offence. The lady said she could see the vehicle had been transferred but that I would have to apply for a v888 form for detailed information and that can take up to 2-4 weeks and costs 5 pounds. The car was registered to my previous address and all mail regarding this issue I have not received, the first thing I've had is this notice of further steps so it was all a shock. I phoned my local magistrates today to make a statutory declaration that I have not received any correspondence in regards to this until now. Any advice would be appreciated. I had to hound the relevant court for more info regarding this fine, they never answer the phone and are barely responding to my emails. They asked for a number to call me and discuss my options but I've had no call. Thanks for taking the time to read this! This post has been edited by Jumpgates: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 20:12 |
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Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 20:11
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Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 09:58
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#41
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 4 Dec 2019 Member No.: 106,941 |
Presumably the OP had insurance on car. This would have been cancelled on 15th may; when car was sold. A letter from insurance company affirming this might be useful evidence in confirming the backstory. I could dig that up. I also received a refund for the tax on the vehicle in question on the month of the new owners offence. But all this wont help if my case boils down to the fact that the police simply send it off to whoever's registered on system and it's my fault because I didnt update the address before the sale. It's looking more and more likely to me that its indefensible and I may simply have to accept the fine, points and insurance hikes due to another person's speeding. |
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Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 10:44
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#42
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Your call, I've explained the defence although you don't seem to understand it as you keep introducing factors of no relevance or without saying how they are relevant.
It doesn't matter what the Police say, what matters is the law and how the magistrates view what was reasonably practicable. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 10:55
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#43
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 4 Dec 2019 Member No.: 106,941 |
Your call, I've explained the defence although you don't seem to understand it as you keep introducing factors of no relevance or without saying how they are relevant. It doesn't matter what the Police say, what matters is the law and how the magistrates view what was reasonably practicable. What factors are not relevant? I understand the defence you provided but my concern lays with the counter point of the police having fulfilled their obligation in sending it to my last known address on system, negating my defence and deeming it properly served, my failure to update the v5c notwithstanding. Or is this all moot in the face of it was not RP for me to continue receiving mail regardless of the not updated address? |
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Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 11:27
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#44
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
You have teh defence that you were not required to have processes in place to recieve post for a car you ceased to own. The obligations referred to in "Whiteside" just dont seem to apply.
It does not negate your defence At all BEcause your defence is not based on them sending it to your last known address. |
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Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 13:24
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#45
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,214 Joined: 24 Mar 2013 From: Scotland Member No.: 60,732 |
I would be wary of claiming your responsibility ended when you posted the change of owner paperwork. Given that DVLA suggests that it might take up to four weeks to be processed I think a reasonable view might be that you continued to have some responsibility until you had confirmation that the change had been processed.
In terms of dates there's a difference between the date on which the keeper changed, and the possibly much later date that DVLA recorded the change. So if you posted on say the 1st of the month, and DVLA processed it on the 12th then any query from the police before the 12th is going to return your details. Even though the DVLA will finally record the change as being on the 1st. |
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Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 19:29
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#46
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 4 Dec 2019 Member No.: 106,941 |
Thanks Tony, this is my cause for concern. If my defence has merit it could fall flat as the court could say I still had responsibility to receive mail regarding the car and that the address on system at the time was valid for them to send the s.172 to and still get convicted.
Obviously the answer to this will only come out if I try and defend with the reasonably practicable argument, and I'm not sure what I'm going to do as of yet. The court actually rang me back today and said the conviction had been set aside for the stat dec this wednesday and that I'll have to see what decision they take after I make it. Dvla also clarified today as the rookie started - the date of change of keeper is simply the date listed by me as date of sale. I was also informed that a new logbook was sent to the new owner on the 4th, 3 days after the initial incident!!! I've always held I've had bad luck but this is astoundingly so. |
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Tue, 10 Dec 2019 - 09:58
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#47
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
When you do the stat dec could be worth seeing if a prosecutor is there, to explain the situaiton and provide them with this proof in person. They may decide its not in the interests to prosecute you there and then.
Dont ask, dont get |
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Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 00:21
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#48
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 4 Dec 2019 Member No.: 106,941 |
Thanks, I will inquire. After I've made the stat dec explaining all of this and why I didn't receive the nip, is it normal for the court to just recharge immediately or is the declaration looked at by someone before deciding to proceed? And will I be asked to state my plea there and then?
I've never been to a court of any kind before so forgive the ignorance. |
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Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 03:15
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#49
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
At the stat dec you will be asked how you plead, if you plead guilty they will sentence there and then (saving an extra hearing) if you plead not guilty it will be adjourned a you'll be notified of a trial date (by post). It's the CPS (relevant people likely not there that day) who decide whether they wish to continue or not.
As you've already been 'summonsed' there would be no charge needed. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 03:37 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 10:29
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#50
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 4 Dec 2019 Member No.: 106,941 |
Stat dec done, nerve wracking being in court for the first time.
I explained myself and it was checked I think by prosecution or someone sitting in front of the magistrates/judges, and it came back that I was not the registered keeper at the time of the offence and the case was withdrawn! So that's the end of all of that I think, nothing else to do? They dismissed.me pretty quick, just its withdrawn and you can leave. Very happy with that. |
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Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 10:41
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#51
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Good result! It was worth brinigng it up as we thought it coul dbe. Useful someone was there
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Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 11:30
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#52
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Well done, no defence needed.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 00:17
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#53
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 4 Dec 2019 Member No.: 106,941 |
Regardless, thanks for the helpful advice from all of you. Without this forum I likely would have had a much worse result.
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