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2 Fines Same day ?
RocketRonnieRado...
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 09:40
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Posting OBH of a friend.

My friend was caught doing 37 in a 30 on say 1st sept, at 07.15hrs by average speed camera
He was then snapped again on the 2nd sept at 08.20 at 41 mph

He received a speed awareness course wrt the first offence but then got a court letter stating that he would get points and a fine for the second offence.

He has chosen to appear with the basis of his argument being that he thought it was a 40mph zone as the signage was not present in accordance to the Highway code.
The road has recently changed from a 40 to a 30 and he was not aware of the change and the road is one that he is used to using on a regular basis and has grown familiar with it being 40 in the past.

He went back to the location to check signage and there is only 1 small 30mph sign that could easily be obscured by a parked or passing vehicle.

Any assistance gratefully received.
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post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 09:40
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Jlc
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 10:06
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What's the exact location?

Is there streetlighting in place?

When did the limit change?


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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RocketRonnieRado...
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 10:17
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Thanks for the reply

Location - B6232 grane rd between Holden place and the haslingden western
Street lights - present on one side but not constant has breaks
Limit change is recent but not sure of specific date

Gent is due in court today.

Thanks
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Jlc
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 10:28
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QUOTE (RocketRonnieRadox @ Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 11:17) *
Gent is due in court today.

For trial or first attendance?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 10:32
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Will this offence take him to 12 or more points? I am wondering why he was not offered a fixed penalty.

Do you mean Haslingden Western Bypass? I am struggling to see any sign that Grane Road between those two points was ever a 40mph limit. It was certainly a 30mph limit in September 2015 which is the first time Jubilee Road was signed as 20mph, the other s of those signs show Grane road as a 30mph limit. LINK



This post has been edited by Logician: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 11:00


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Jlc
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 10:52
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Seems quite a hotspot from a quick google. 100 drivers a day caught.

The point about streetlighting is that it could be a restricted road (30mph) - no other signage is required. But a newly reduced limit has guidance for additional signage. (But guidance isn't necessarily a defence)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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BertB
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 10:52
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QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 11:32) *
Will this offence take him to 12 or more points? I am wondering why he was not offered a fixed penalty.


It looks like the court option was taken up by choice.

QUOTE (RocketRonnieRadox @ Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 10:40) *
He has chosen to appear with the basis of his argument being that he thought it was a 40mph zone as the signage was not present in accordance to the Highway code.
The road has recently changed from a 40 to a 30 and he was not aware of the change and the road is one that he is used to using on a regular basis and has grown familiar with it being 40 in the past.
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Jlc
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 11:01
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A quick look on GSV seems to show that section has been 30mph for many, many years. (At least 2009 - here)



--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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RocketRonnieRado...
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 11:12
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Thanks all.

Does being a hot spot qualify the location for more signs and hence be some for of mitigation ?
The sings are clear in one direction but not the other.
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Jlc
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 11:22
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QUOTE (RocketRonnieRadox @ Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 12:12) *
Does being a hot spot qualify the location for more signs and hence be some for of mitigation ?
The signs are clear in one direction but not the other.

Those signs are the terminal signs. It's the lamp posts that maintain the limit.

Coming from the other direction there should be terminal signs coming from a higher limit too. Or if the journey started within the restricted road area then 30mph must be assumed with the streetlighting unless there are signs to the contrary.

A hotspot per se doesn't demand additional signage. (As it's actually already fully compliant it seems)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 11:27
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QUOTE (RocketRonnieRadox @ Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 12:12) *
Thanks all. Does being a hot spot qualify the location for more signs and hence be some for of mitigation ? The sings are clear in one direction but not the other.


Not a chance. Approaching that stretch of road you either come off the by-pass which is clearly signed, from the West which is clearly signed, or from the East, where you are already in a 30 mph zone and there is no indication the limit has changed so it continues at 30 mph. The limit has not recently changed from 40mph, it has been 30mph for at least 8 years, so your friend must have been mistakenly thinking it was a 40 limit when it was not. I suggest he pleads guilty when he gets to court, does not attempt to offer mitigation because there is none, and apologises for wasting everyone's time.



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RocketRonnieRado...
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 07:28
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You were right Log.

Higher fine and more points.

Sorry for my friend.
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