Parking only past this point |
Parking only past this point |
Wed, 1 Aug 2018 - 18:26
Post
#1
|
|
New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 24 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,523 |
Hi everyone.
I received today PCN on Waldeck Rd Chiswick, London for "parked in a residents or shared use parking place or zone without either clearly displaying a valid permit".... . The street I parked on there is no parking bays, lines, signs. There is a one sign only on one side of the connected road entrance. When you turn left on this street "what the passenger sees" And what the driver sees Second entry Photos from "View Your Penalty Charge Notice" they do not show much, some close photos of the car without street view. After I got a ticket, I looked at other cars, there were a lot of cars with PCN. I've parked on this street for several years and never got a ticket before. Do I have a chance to fight back? Council pictures Thanks for help. This post has been edited by Peter101: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 - 19:37 |
|
|
Advertisement |
Wed, 1 Aug 2018 - 18:26
Post
#
|
Advertise here! |
|
|
|
Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 21:49
Post
#21
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I would definitely carry on with this one. They say you were in a Controlled Parking Zone, but as previously discussed a Controlled Parking Zone (as opposed to a Restricted Parking Zone or a Permit Parking Area) needs bays and yellow lines. If it later turns out it was a Permit Parking Area, at the very least they've sent you a rejection letter which is misleading and then we can look at the fairness / procedural impropriety route. I'm starting to suspect there might not even be an order creating a Permit Parking Area, as otherwise they would normally provide it. In any case if they don't come up with some good pictures of the alleged signage, it's a sure win. Post the Notice to Owner when you get it and we'll take it from there.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 22:15
Post
#22
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 35,155 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
???
TMOs do not create PPAs or CPZs or RPZs, they create restrictions and permissions. If as part of a plan the authority have decided to create a CPZ, for example, then they do not need to include this in an order’s citation, they just have to place the traffic signs required by the order and TSRGD. Traffic signs are not orders. Geraldine and Waldeck cannot be part of the same PPA and rely on the traffic sign at the entrance to Geraldine because this is not an entrance into the area, just into one of the streets in the area. At best it’s a repeater, but this is not a gateway sign at the area’s entrance. If the sign in the OP’s photo is a gateway sign then what precedes it cannot be the same PPA. The authority’s response is tosh for the reasons given, particularly as they have used capitals. A parking place in a CPZ MUST be marked, end of. |
|
|
Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 22:42
Post
#23
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 29,280 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Member No.: 16,671 |
I can't reconcile your first pic to GSV, and assuming you parked here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4878417,-...3312!8i6656 you wouldn't have turned left, so you wouldn't have passed that sign anyway no matter which access you used. The photo of Geraldine road is irrelevant, if you drove right out of Geraldine, a sign which is only visible to traffic going the other way would be utterly irrelevant. I'm not sure what the first pic is but the others seem to clearly show OP's point of entry to the PPA as being Geraldine. But you're linking the other end, inside ppa. -------------------- |
|
|
Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 00:04
Post
#24
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I can't reconcile your first pic to GSV, and assuming you parked here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4878417,-...3312!8i6656 you wouldn't have turned left, so you wouldn't have passed that sign anyway no matter which access you used. The photo of Geraldine road is irrelevant, if you drove right out of Geraldine, a sign which is only visible to traffic going the other way would be utterly irrelevant. I'm not sure what the first pic is but the others seem to clearly show OP's point of entry to the PPA as being Geraldine. But you're linking the other end, inside ppa. I think I had assumed the OP's photo of Geraldine was of the northern end, when in fact it was the southern end. I don't know what the first photo is either. Peter101, can you confirm where the sign in the very first photo is placed? To answer hcandersen, I think the second sign posted by the Peter101 is a gateway sign located here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B...33;4d-0.2820606 Obviously GSV is out of date. Still, the restrictions included in the TMO are not compatible with a PPA. This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 00:09 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 08:07
Post
#25
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 35,155 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
OP, at present we have their reply which refers to a Controlled Parking Zone, photos of your car in an unmarked area of street, a PCN alleging parked in a parking place and regulations which other than in limited and prescribed circumstances require parking places to be marked.
And a CPZ ain’t one of them! |
|
|
Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 16:55
Post
#26
|
|
New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 24 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,523 |
I can't reconcile your first pic to GSV, and assuming you parked here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4878417,-...3312!8i6656 you wouldn't have turned left, so you wouldn't have passed that sign anyway no matter which access you used. The photo of Geraldine road is irrelevant, if you drove right out of Geraldine, a sign which is only visible to traffic going the other way would be utterly irrelevant. I'm not sure what the first pic is but the others seem to clearly show OP's point of entry to the PPA as being Geraldine. But you're linking the other end, inside ppa. I think I had assumed the OP's photo of Geraldine was of the northern end, when in fact it was the southern end. I don't know what the first photo is either. Peter101, can you confirm where the sign in the very first photo is placed? To answer hcandersen, I think the second sign posted by the Peter101 is a gateway sign located here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/51%C2%B...33;4d-0.2820606 Obviously GSV is out of date. Still, the restrictions included in the TMO are not compatible with a PPA. Meade Close |
|
|
Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 17:06
Post
#27
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
No it's 1 Pyrmont Road, Meade Close is the narrow one way street between Pyrmont Road and Geraldine Road. I think you have an arguable case on the signage, and an open and shut case on the fact that the signs and the Traffic Management Order don't match up with each other.
Just post the NtO when you get it and we'll take it from there. In the mean time it might be worth double checking the address on the V5C is correct / up to date. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 20:25
Post
#28
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
This one is as clear as Thames mud. The authority hasn't provided any evidence of wrongdoing in its rejection so I would write back to them asking for it.
|
|
|
Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 16:58
Post
#29
|
|
New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 24 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,523 |
NTO arrive
|
|
|
Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 16:32
Post
#30
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Formal reps:
------------------------------- I am making formal representations against PCN n. XXXXXX. I parked on Waldeck Road in an area where there were no parking bays, no yellow lines and no signs indicating that parking was restricted, so I was very surprised when I found a Penalty Charge Notice on my car. I consulted the council's website and the photos taken by the CEO simply show my car parked on a seemingly unrestricted stretch of road, again no signs, yellow lines, bays or other parking restrictions are visible in the council's evidence. In your rejection of my informal representations you assert that "There is a sign where you parked that explains that the bay you parked in is for people with a permit", however your own photos clearly evidence I was not parked in a bay at all. I note you also assert that there is clear signage at the entrance of the Control Parking Zone, and I do not disagree, however a Controlled Parking Zone requires the council to use bay markings with appropriate sings in conjunction with yellow lines, to indicate to motorists where parking is allowed (and under what conditions) and where it is prohibited. CPZ signs themselves only indicate the hours of operation of the single yellow lines within the zone, they do not create restrictions within parking bays, nor do they create restrictions on any section of road that has neither parking bays nor yellow lines. In light of the abofe, it would be wholly unreasonable for you to seek to enforce this Penalty Charge Notice and I look forward to receiving confirmation that the PCN and the NtO have been cancelled. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 21:58
Post
#31
|
|
New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 24 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,523 |
45 days have passed since I send NTO and I still did not get an answer, Is it normal?
|
|
|
Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 22:07
Post
#32
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
They have 56 days to reply. If they don't, you win automatically.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
Wed, 21 Nov 2018 - 09:24
Post
#33
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 35,155 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
45 days have passed since I send NTO and I still did not get an answer, Is it normal?
Be clear please. You submitted your representations against the NTO by ***(email/online/post, be clear) addressed to ***** as stated on the NTO on **** date. And here's a copy of my reps. Precision please. |
|
|
Wed, 17 Apr 2019 - 15:38
Post
#34
|
|
New Member Group: Members Posts: 1 Joined: 17 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,470 |
45 days have passed since I send NTO and I still did not get an answer, Is it normal? Hi Peter101, Did you end up getting a response to your NTO and did you win your case? I received the same Penalty Charge Notice 2 weeks ago for parking on this street (Waldeck Rd) and gave very similar reasons to your appeal for my own, but they have decided not to cancel my PCN. I've now got until Tuesday 23rd April to pay the penalty at the discounted rate. Should I just pay it (even though I strongly disagree with the rejection of my appeal) or wait for the Enforcement Notice form make a formal representation against my PCN? Thanks |
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Wednesday, 17th April 2024 - 02:06 |