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3 Tickets in 3 Days, Can I contest?
DSic
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 10:26
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I was unable to park on my road due to the lack of spaces caused by the road works. Believing that a neighbouring road was within my parking zone, I left my vehicle there on a Sunday evening.
I generally leave the house very early and return quite late for work and there were no spaces on my road available, due to the road works and multiple suspended bays. I only discovered the 3 parking tickets upon returning to my car on the Wednesday evening.

The 2nd tickets was issued issued within 24 hours of the previous one, which as far as I know is illegal and I have also been told that councils are unable to issue more than one ticket for the same offence but I am not sure of the latter.

After pointing this out to the council, as well as the road words which have caused hell on my road for the last 2 months, they have refused to cancel any of the tickets.

Essentially I received 3 PCN tickets without moving my car.

Are you able to suggest what my next best course of action is please?

Thanks for any help.

Daniel

This post has been edited by DSic: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 14:48
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post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 10:26
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peterguk
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 11:01
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QUOTE (DSic @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 11:26) *
I was unable to find a parking space outside my house each time


QUOTE (DSic @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 11:26) *
I only discovered the 3 parking tickets upon returning to my car on the Wednesday evening.


It is not clear whether you moved the car each day, or did the car receive 3 PCNs without being moved?


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stamfordman
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 11:14
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Post a PCN and Google Street View of location, and also your challenge and their rejection.
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DSic
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 14:53
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Hi Guys,

I left my car in the same spot, so essentially it was 3 tickets issued without my car moving.

I've attached the PCN challenges and response to this.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  P0004689620.PDF ( 167.75K ) Number of downloads: 38
Attached File  P0004689328.PDF ( 158.32K ) Number of downloads: 102
Attached File  P0004689621.PDF ( 163.3K ) Number of downloads: 78
 
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cp8759
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 15:24
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It is a continuous contravention, so PCNs 2 and 3 can be challenged on that ground. The basic principle is that you can't be punished more than once for a single contravention.

As for PCN 1, please post the PCN (both sides) in full, so we can check for errors. Also if you post a google street view link to the location we can check the signs.


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stamfordman
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 15:27
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:24) *
It is a continuous contravention, so PCNs 2 and 3 can be challenged on that ground. The basic principle is that you can't be punished more than once for a single contravention.


We have though just seen an appeal turned down as the restricted times were not contiguous.
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cp8759
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 15:30
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:27) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:24) *
It is a continuous contravention, so PCNs 2 and 3 can be challenged on that ground. The basic principle is that you can't be punished more than once for a single contravention.


We have though just seen an appeal turned down as the restricted times were not contiguous.

I take the view that that case was wrongly decided, but even so, we first need to see the signs to confirm whether the restriction is continuous. Even if it isn't, continuous contravention is still a point that should be put forward.


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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:03
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:30) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:27) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:24) *
It is a continuous contravention, so PCNs 2 and 3 can be challenged on that ground. The basic principle is that you can't be punished more than once for a single contravention.


We have though just seen an appeal turned down as the restricted times were not contiguous.

I take the view that that case was wrongly decided, but even so, we first need to see the signs to confirm whether the restriction is continuous. Even if it isn't, continuous contravention is still a point that should be put forward.


agreed. if not continuous then continuing and the same legal principle applies


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DSic
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:07
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Here is the google street view:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5433609,-...3312!8i6656

Let me know if you require anything else.

Thank you for all the help so far.

Thanks,

Daniel
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:16
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PCN's front of each and back of one


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DSic
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 10:51
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Hi All,

Apologies for the delay in uploading this.

I can't seem to get the pictures uploaded due to file size. Can you help without them?

Thanks,

Daniel
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John U.K.
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 12:11
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QUOTE (DSic @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 10:51) *
Hi All,

Apologies for the delay in uploading this.

I can't seem to get the pictures uploaded due to file size. Can you help without them?

Thanks,

Daniel


Try this:

Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method:

Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems. Thera are other sites, such as Flickr (where the BBcodes are concealed behind the curly arrow (click on it) for sharing), which enable you to paste the BBCodes into your post here.
STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [ ] ), and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post.

Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space.

Redact/obscure name, address, PCN number and reg.mark.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.
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DSic
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 13:34
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Here we go:

Back of PCN
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/8440/iQfVyZ.jpg

PCN. No.1
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/170/FoCFjp.jpg

PCN. No.2
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/2470/rnIOJV.jpg

PCN. No.3
https://imageshack.com/a/img924/5162/HJV8YA.jpg


Let me know if you need anything else.

Thanks and I hope you all have great weekends of some sunshine
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DSic
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 13:03
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Hi Guys,

I'll have to pay the fine in 3 days time unless I can get some help here.

Seems like the council will just enforce these tickets even if they're in contravention to the standards that you have mentioned.

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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 13:20
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Can we see your challenge to the council and the rejection please.


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cp8759
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 13:22
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Was the first PCN badly printed or have you spilt something over it?

For PCNs 2 and 3, just make representations stating it was a continuous contravention so only one PCN should have been issued. Case 2110166557 is relevant:

"The authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was parked in a residents' parking place or zone displaying an invalid permit when in Lausanne Road on 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 15, 18, 19 and 21 January 2011 at 09.00.

The Appellant's case is that the permit had not been renewed because they had not received a renewal notice from the authority. The Appellant and his wife were on holiday from 31 December 2010 until 23 January 2011 during which period the Penalty Charge Notices were incurred.

I have considered the evidence and I find that the Appellant's vehicle was parked in a residents parking place displaying an invalid permit when in Lausanne Road on 4 January 2011. It is the Appellant's responsibility to renew their permit and they are not entitled to rely on the courtesy renewal letter, which may not have been received.

However, I find that the Appellant's vehicle committed one contravention of parking in a residents' permit bay without clearly displaying a valid permit when in Lausanne Road on 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 15, 18, 19 and 21 January 2011.

I find that one continuous contravention has occurred; the vehicle remains at the same location throughout the period these Penalty Charge Notices were issued. Further, I have taken into account that the residents' bay is operational from 8am to 6.30pm Monday to Saturday and I find that the situation would be the same if the residents' bay was operational 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

There is no rule of law or regulation that entitles an authority to issue a penalty charge notice every 24 hours or as in some of these Penalty Charge Notices less than 24 hours. An enforcement authority has other powers at its disposal for a continuous contravention, such as removal.

For the reasons given this appeal is allowed.
"

As there was only one contravention, the wrongdoing should have been punished only once, so PCNs 2 and 3 are invalid. If the council felt that the first PCN had not had the desired effect, they should have considered towing the vehicle away.


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DSic
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 14:18
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Thanks CP.

It rained pretty heavily over the 3 days that the tickets were there so I had to dry them out after I collected them. The damage on the first PCN is due to that.

Your explanation makes a lot of sense and I feel like this is my best course. Are you suggesting that I pay PCN No.1 and wait until the Notice
to Owner form arrives for the other two?


This was my initial challenge to the PCN's. I posted their rejections early on in this post. Annoyingly I left off the continuous contravention issue:

I was unable to park on my road on the 25.03 due to the lack of spaces caused by the road works. Believing that the road I parked on was within my parking zone, I left my vehicle there on Monday 26.03.
I generally leave the house very early and return quite late for work and was unable to find a parking space on my road each time, due to the road works and multiple suspended bays. I only discovered the 3 parking tickets upon returning to my car on the evening of Wednesday 28.03. I was very disappointed to learn that one of the tickets had been issued within 24 hours of the previous one BT8183077A, which contradicts the Traffic Management Order.
I accept that it was my responsibility to check my vehicle was parked in a zone I have an approved permit for. I had already paid a fine for parking in a suspended bay outside my flat 3 weeks ago and I really am going to struggle to afford to pay these tickets. I ask for some leniency and to just pay 1 of them.
Thank you for your consideration.


This post has been edited by DSic: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 14:22
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Mad Mick V
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 14:52
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Permit terms here:-

https://www.brent.gov.uk/media/16407035/par...ril-2017-v2.pdf

Have to park in same zone as permit and no exceptions for parking in an adjoining zone.

Ask them why a higher penalty was averred if you were showing a Brent permit why wasn't it a lower penalty Code 19 "Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone either displaying an invalid permit or voucher or pay and display ticket, or after
the expiry of paid for time"

Mick
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cp8759
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 15:25
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I think you have two options now. You can either pay PCN 1 at the discounted rate, and then continue to fight PCNs 2 & 3 on the basis of it being a continuous contravention, or you challenge PCN 1 for failure to consider, and PCNs 2 & 3 as continuous contravention PCNs.

You could argue they have failed to consider PCN 1 properly because they have not stated why they're not willing to exercise discretion and they have ignored the fact that it was a continuous contravention, and the rejection letters for PCNs 1 & 3 are word by word identical, which suggests they are template responses. In this regard, adjudication 2170256432 is relevant:

The Rejection Notice has every appearance of a pro-forma letter and does not deal at all with the representations made. The response required was a very simple one, namely words to the effect that that whilst we accept that you had a permit on display you were not parked in the road to which it applied – see terms of permit. Motorists are entitled to have their representations properly considered and an explanation, even if brief, why they are rejected. I am unable to be satisfied that in issuing this rejection notice the Council had properly performed its statutory duty to consider representations and this amounts to procedural impropriety. The Appeal is therefore allowed”.

Given you implicitly raised the continuous contravention issue at the informal stage, it's hard to see how the rejections for PCNs 1 and 3 could be word by word identical if they have considered each PCN on it own merits. The difficulty you face is that a failure to consider at the informal stage is less serious than a failure to consider at the NtO stage, so if they send you a properly reason rejection for PCN 1, the adjudicator might be wiling to overlook the templated informal rejection. On the other hand, if they reject your reps at the NtO stage they often re-offer the discount, so you could say it's a low risk strategy to try and see if they commit a further procedural impropriety at the formal representations stage.

Personally I would fight all three of them, but it's your money and your choice. In any event, the only effective way to challenge the PCNs further is to wait for the Notice to Owner to arrive and then make formal representations. Once the NtOs arrive upload them on here so we can check for errors.


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DSic
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 15:52
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Thanks CP & Mick, great advice on both and plenty to contest over.

If you feel that I've got genuine reason to contest PCN.1 on the basis of their template copy, then I believe it's worth doing. My only concern would be my admission of guilt in my initial challenge, which may mute any points I have on their reasons for rejection
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