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Lorry drove into me
Pezzy
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 13:29
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In Nov last year I was travelling to work when a lorry changed lanes and hit my car without seeing me. Admittedly I was overtaking him in the inside lane as I was doing the speed limit and he was not. Upon pulling over he was very apologetic and said he didn't see me.

Surprise surprise when my insurance company contacted him he blamed me for the accident and my insurance company agreed with him! Even though I sent them the dashcam footage. His fleet manager said all their lorries had dashcams, so I told my insurance company to make sure they get hold of it as it will show what really happened. So far though, they've not been able to obtain it, and of course it is because he's to blame.

I told my insurance company that I will not admit liability for an accident I didn't commit and that I'd be happy to take it to court. I'm not sure how it's progressing as there has been no update.

Below is my dashcam footage.

https://files.mycloud.com/home.php?seuuid=7...name=Accident_1

This post has been edited by southpaw82: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 - 09:51
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post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 13:29
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The Slithy Tove
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 14:03
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Rather than ask people to download a 100MB file of unknown provenance, how about uploading to somewhere like YouTube?

The video doesn't really show enough. Can't tell the moment of impact, or the reason for the sudden swerve to lane 2. Was there audio as well? With sound, it may indicate the impact. As it stands, it doesn't really prove your "innocence" and could be alleged that you swerved into lane 2 abruptly and caused the accident.
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Pezzy
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 14:14
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 15:03) *
Rather than ask people to download a 100MB file of unknown provenance, how about uploading to somewhere like YouTube?

The video doesn't really show enough. Can't tell the moment of impact, or the reason for the sudden swerve to lane 2. Was there audio as well? With sound, it may indicate the impact. As it stands, it doesn't really prove your "innocence" and could be alleged that you swerved into lane 2 abruptly and caused the accident.


If you look again you will see around 20 seconds in, my car moves when I get shoved on the drivers rear quarter. To get away from the lorry I accelerated hard and moved into the outside lane as I was afraid to get pinned between the lorry and the pickup in front. In hindsight I should have stayed in my lane as I don't have a rear facing dashcam, and that's the excuse the 3rd party is using saying I moved into him. But at the rate he's travelling and the rate at which I accelerate, surely it's common sense that there's no way I could make contact with him?

If you look at the damage on my car it's also evident that someone shoved me from behind rather than me somehow creating a long crease on my rear quarter panel and bumper.
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typefish
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 14:24
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QUOTE (Pezzy @ Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 15:14) *
If you look again you will see around 20 seconds in, my car moves when I get shoved on the drivers rear quarter. To get away from the lorry I accelerated hard and moved into the outside lane as I was afraid to get pinned between the lorry and the pickup in front. In hindsight I should have stayed in my lane as I don't have a rear facing dashcam, and that's the excuse the 3rd party is using saying I moved into him. But at the rate he's travelling and the rate at which I accelerate, surely it's common sense that there's no way I could make contact with him?

If you look at the damage on my car it's also evident that someone shoved me from behind rather than me somehow creating a long crease on my rear quarter panel and bumper.


Yeah, I can see what you're referring to - it's not a fluid motion.

I presume your car isn't rear wheel drive?

Sound, if available would help really well here.

This post has been edited by typefish: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 14:25
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Pezzy
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 14:57
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QUOTE (typefish @ Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 15:24) *
Yeah, I can see what you're referring to - it's not a fluid motion.

I presume your car isn't rear wheel drive?

Sound, if available would help really well here.


It is rear wheel drive. And with the sound on you can't hear the impact as my music is quite loud(not as loud as my cussing), and it was a shove not a bang.
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nigelbb
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 17:38
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QUOTE (Pezzy @ Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 14:29) *
In Nov last year I was travelling to work when a lorry changed lanes and hit my car without seeing me. Admittedly I was overtaking him in the inside lane as I was doing the speed limit and he was not. Upon pulling over he was very apologetic and said he didn't see me.

You are always going to struggle to prove it was the other vehicle at fault when you were performing a manoeuvre forbidden by the Highway Code.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 18:26
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I can see why your insurance accept liability. You can decline their service and take this to court yourself if you want, but they will not pay if you lose that will be down to you. And you will still have the accident on your record


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steeringwheel
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 19:52
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You didn't do yourself any favours by declaring that you overtook a lorry on left, on a motorway especially as it was dark, raining and poor visibility. (Rule 268) Do not overtake on the left.

Except in (Rule 163) Only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is turning right.

From what I can make out from your footage, you did overtake on the left and the lorry did hit you as you continued in a straight line.

The lorry must have changed lanes just as you passed it. And there can be no disputing that but would that sway in your favour? I would not count on it.

So, the powers that be (insurance, courts, etc) could see it as you put yourself in that position and that the lorry just didn't see you under all of the above weather conditions taken into consideration.

I can understand the insurance position as the manoeuvre you made is a big NO NO!! with lorries all over the country labeled with stickers DO NOT PASS ON THIS SIDE on the left-hand side of their vehicles.

If, you were as familiar with that stretch of motorway as I believe you may have been because you said that you were on your way to work.............why didn't you wait 20 seconds till the motorway opened up into three lanes and you could have passed the lorry on the right-hand side legally?

As for the third party camera footage, I don't believe they are at liberty to divulge its contents until a court case. It's their evidence after all.

I wish you good luck.
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southpaw82
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 20:02
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QUOTE (steeringwheel @ Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 20:52) *
As for the third party camera footage, I don't believe they are at liberty to divulge its contents until a court case. It's their evidence after all.

They’re at liberty to divulge it if they want to.


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andy_foster
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 21:29
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It would appear that "steeringwheel" was conflated "at liberty to" with "obliged to". I will leave the reader to decide what that says about the quality of their advice.


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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 22:16
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If you have to explain your dashcam footage, you're always in trouble as the other driver can also explain your footage. Dashcam footage only works when it is very obvious exactly what has happened.

Seeing as, best, by your own admission you would be be found xx% liable, it would seem insane to dispense of the services of your insurance company and allow the other party to take you to court.

If you leave it to your insurance company you are inevitably bound by the terms of your policy to let them handle the claim. If they have already decided to admit liability, then it seems very unlikely they will defend the claim.

It is inevitable you will feel cheesed off if you feel the other driver was at at fault. However, insurance is about pragmatism. They're not going to defend a claim as a point of principle that they are very likely to lose just because you have paid £300-ish and want them to.
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DancingDad
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 09:26
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About the worst position any driver can put themselves into is into the blind spots on the inside of a lorry.
And you did put yourself there, by undertaking.
I'm not surprised the insurance decided to accept.

BTW, similar situation when overtaking or running alongside a foreign lorry in lane 2, you may be legal but the driver cannot see you, totally reliant on mirrors.

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The Slithy Tove
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 12:57
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 10:26) *
BTW, similar situation when overtaking or running alongside a foreign lorry in lane 2, you may be legal but the driver cannot see you, totally reliant on mirrors.

Though not the same in terms of culpability in the event of an accident. I've been sideswiped by a large lorry as it moved from lane 1 to lane 2 (where I was). Luckily, it was in near stationary traffic as it pulled out to avoid an incident in lane 1 that the police were already dealing with, so speeds very low and no injury. Just left lane 2 closed as well as my car was now stranded and wouldn't move!
Anyway, after many months (Spanish truck driven by a Bulgarian driver), the insurance finally decided it was 100% the truck driver's fault.
Now I have a dash cam myself, which I would hope would make it easier (though as we see in this case, the dash cam evidence can be far from conclusive).
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notmeatloaf
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 13:41
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Undertaking in near stationary traffic is different to undertaking at speed.

Don't get me wrong, I've done it when there is some idiot staying in the outside lane. But always with an escape plan in case they decide to move in deliberately or obliviously.
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Atomic Tomato
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 17:52
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 13:57) *
Now I have a dash cam myself, which I would hope would make it easier (though as we see in this case, the dash cam evidence can be far from conclusive).

Dashcams are like tracer ammunition. They work both ways.
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roythebus
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 23:47
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Having looked at the video, the car passes the lorry in lane 1, nothing illegal in that, the law allows for it. But why then does said car suddenly move into lane 2 when the driver knows there is a lorry there? Maybe the lorry driver "could" have seen the car's headlights shining on the road, There's no way the lorry driver could have seen the car pull out in front of him and I'd suggest the lorry didn't change lanes at all.

It's not a move I would try to do! I often pass slower moving vehicles when I'm in lane 1, but would not cut in front of anything big I'd just passed!

The car driver's insurance will admit liability as it's cheaper for them than contesting it. I'd suggest damage to the lorry was minimal, maybe a scratched front bumper. What probably ****** off others was the ensuing delay as the motorway gets shut for an hour at a seemingly busy time.
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The Slithy Tove
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 06:58
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 00:47) *
Having looked at the video, the car passes the lorry in lane 1, nothing illegal in that, the law allows for it. But why then does said car suddenly move into lane 2 when the driver knows there is a lorry there? Maybe the lorry driver "could" have seen the car's headlights shining on the road, There's no way the lorry driver could have seen the car pull out in front of him and I'd suggest the lorry didn't change lanes at all.

The OP's explanation is different from your observations (see post #3). And that is the whole point - different interpretations of the same set of observations.

This post has been edited by The Slithy Tove: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 06:59
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Pezzy
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 08:50
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QUOTE (steeringwheel @ Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 20:52) *
You didn't do yourself any favours by declaring that you overtook a lorry on left, on a motorway especially as it was dark, raining and poor visibility. (Rule 268) Do not overtake on the left.

Except in (Rule 163) Only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is turning right.

From what I can make out from your footage, you did overtake on the left and the lorry did hit you as you continued in a straight line.

The lorry must have changed lanes just as you passed it. And there can be no disputing that but would that sway in your favour? I would not count on it.

So, the powers that be (insurance, courts, etc) could see it as you put yourself in that position and that the lorry just didn't see you under all of the above weather conditions taken into consideration.

I can understand the insurance position as the manoeuvre you made is a big NO NO!! with lorries all over the country labeled with stickers DO NOT PASS ON THIS SIDE on the left-hand side of their vehicles.

If, you were as familiar with that stretch of motorway as I believe you may have been because you said that you were on your way to work.............why didn't you wait 20 seconds till the motorway opened up into three lanes and you could have passed the lorry on the right-hand side legally?

As for the third party camera footage, I don't believe they are at liberty to divulge its contents until a court case. It's their evidence after all.

I wish you good luck.


My insurance company is not making a point about me undertaking. They say the problem is they can't see the accident happening. Plus the fact that I moved into the RH lane. If I stayed in my lane then there would be no dispute, and if they had footage of the lorry moving into me, undertaken or not, then it would be totally his fault. Maybe my dashcam footage seems cut and dry to me as I was in the car, but I can understand why anyone looking at it for the first time might have some questions. Still, what else can explain the thump to my car when I'm driving in a straight line?

I am angry that I have to take this on the chin when someone else crashed into me, especially since they're lying through their teeth. But, I won't be putting myself in that situation again. Plus I'm going to get a dashcam that's rear facing as well as that would have made my life a lot easier.
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Tartarus
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 09:32
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I haven't seen the footage yet, or whether it shows such thing, but it can depend if you deliberately moved into lane 1 to undertake him, or whether you were already there for a while and just happened to be going faster than him.

Almost the same accident happened to me about 3.5 years ago, I was in lane 1 travelling faster albeit I had been in said lane for about 3 miles (it was between J10 and J11 on M25) and the lorry was in lane 2 and moved over to lane 1, hitting the side of my car and spinning me 90 degrees. Insurance found him 100% liable, although my car was declared a valuation write-off (cost more to repair than worth, not that it couldn't be repaired).

So if you are adamant you didn't move to lane 1 to overtake, I say keep fighting...
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Pezzy
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 12:22
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QUOTE (Tartarus @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 10:32) *
I haven't seen the footage yet, or whether it shows such thing, but it can depend if you deliberately moved into lane 1 to undertake him, or whether you were already there for a while and just happened to be going faster than him.

Almost the same accident happened to me about 3.5 years ago, I was in lane 1 travelling faster albeit I had been in said lane for about 3 miles (it was between J10 and J11 on M25) and the lorry was in lane 2 and moved over to lane 1, hitting the side of my car and spinning me 90 degrees. Insurance found him 100% liable, although my car was declared a valuation write-off (cost more to repair than worth, not that it couldn't be repaired).

So if you are adamant you didn't move to lane 1 to overtake, I say keep fighting...

I was in lane 1 the whole time.
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