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Liverpool JLA Letter of Claim received
webster1
post Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 23:58
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Hi, I was wondering if anyone can assist. I've had advice from the facebook Fight Your Private Parking Invoice Page but now I've received a Letter of Claim from BW Legal threatening to take me to the County Court for an alleged 'parking offence' stopping in a prohibited zone at JLA.
I've responded to all VCS letters, this has now been passed to BW Legal who are saying pay £160 to avoid us taking you to Court. Advice all the way has been no way will this get to Court, but here I am being threatened with County Court.
Any advice/assistance would be greatly appreciated. As you can imagine I'm worried about this and thinking should payment have been made when the first letter came through the door with the £60 fine.
Thanking you in advance!
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post Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 23:58
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 08:24
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Of course not! I was tlaking about the lost case, sorry for not making it clear smile.gif
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hexaflexagon
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 15:19
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 19:34) *
That is a shame but I fully understand your position.

Given that a lot of thios was done 'off forum,' I wonder if you might be kind enough to show us your final defence? Indeed, although it will not help you, you may get some satisfaction in hanging around and commenting on other cases, given your experience and knowledge gained through this process.

Well done for sticking with it as far as you did.


I see that webster1 is checking whether the witness statement and skeleton argument can be uploaded here. I do hope they are.

I played a very small part in providing some of the factual stuff and quotes from various parties including LJLA, Liverpool Council and the DfT. for the defence arguments.

I saw the eventual defence arguments and statements and (admittedly as a lay person) felt that an important milestone had been reached with the final defence papers which were to be used in court. It appeared to me an extremely well constructed and argued case, which of course I'd expect from a professional barrister who put the thing together, and I had high hopes.

The defence was I believe somewhat different to bargepole's view, but that's not to say that was wrong, just different. If we learn anything from these things it's that sometimes different judge's are swayed by different arguments on essentially the same circumstances.

I of course respect Webster1's decision not to go ahead in the circumstances but believe the work that has been done will be extremely useful at some point.

One aspect that I think we should try and thrash out is where best to have one of these cases heard. I believe webster1 chose Sheffield, almost next door to the VCS offices because it had been suggested that St. Helen's, which was the nearest court was too close to the Liverpool court which heard the Business Park case which was similar, but different in some important aspects and therefore distinguishable.

Was there any reason to believe that a St Helen's Court would have any connection with Liverpool, and that the mere fact they are only a few miles apart might mean the same Judges might sit in both?

One thought I had was that it would do no harm to make it more expensive for VCS to argue in a court as far removed from Sheffield as possible. Carlisle or perhaps Berwick on Tweed ~200 miles away in the North spring to mind. And even better somewhere in Devon or Cornwall ~ 300 miles away.
That would surely increase the possibility of VCS asking for the case to be heard on the papers, or in the event that they do seek to make the case in person the chance that on the day they would be delayed and fail to appear.

The point about the pledges has been answered but in Lynnzer's absence, since it seeme he alone held the pledge list, it would do no harm to formalise this, perhaps as a thread in this forum to which people could add their own pledges so that there's complete clarity.

Thoughts...
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Dave65
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 15:24
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Agree as my pledge is still there.
Another 14 months gone without hearing anything more on my airport Penalty.

This post has been edited by Dave65: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 15:26
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Blue62
post Fri, 26 Oct 2018 - 21:41
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It appears BW have changed tack and are trying to explore what they consider contractual breaches.
This has just been highlighted to me for the first time in my 3rd 'letter before claim'. Going back to an alleged stopping PCN from 2015.
I was wondering whether permission has been granted yet for the sharing of the prepared defence in your case as I am sure it would be of benefit to the next guineapig.
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Dave65
post Fri, 26 Oct 2018 - 21:50
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I believe Lynnzer is back, he gathered the pledges to support one of these court cases.
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Spudandros
post Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 15:18
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QUOTE (Blue62 @ Fri, 26 Oct 2018 - 22:41) *
It appears BW have changed tack and are trying to explore what they consider contractual breaches.
This has just been highlighted to me for the first time in my 3rd 'letter before claim'. Going back to an alleged stopping PCN from 2015.
I was wondering whether permission has been granted yet for the sharing of the prepared defence in your case as I am sure it would be of benefit to the next guineapig.


BW aren't handling these. VCS are doing them directly courtesy of Jake Burgess
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Blue62
post Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 22:33
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QUOTE (Spudandros @ Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 16:18) *
QUOTE (Blue62 @ Fri, 26 Oct 2018 - 22:41) *
It appears BW have changed tack and are trying to explore what they consider contractual breaches.
This has just been highlighted to me for the first time in my 3rd 'letter before claim'. Going back to an alleged stopping PCN from 2015.
I was wondering whether permission has been granted yet for the sharing of the prepared defence in your case as I am sure it would be of benefit to the next guineapig.


BW aren't handling these. VCS are doing them directly courtesy of Jake Burgess

All the paperwork I have received has come from BW as did the previous two letters of claim , could this be because it is a claim going back to early 2015?
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Spudandros
post Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 23:46
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QUOTE (Blue62 @ Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 23:33) *
QUOTE (Spudandros @ Sat, 27 Oct 2018 - 16:18) *
QUOTE (Blue62 @ Fri, 26 Oct 2018 - 22:41) *
It appears BW have changed tack and are trying to explore what they consider contractual breaches.
This has just been highlighted to me for the first time in my 3rd 'letter before claim'. Going back to an alleged stopping PCN from 2015.
I was wondering whether permission has been granted yet for the sharing of the prepared defence in your case as I am sure it would be of benefit to the next guineapig.


BW aren't handling these. VCS are doing them directly courtesy of Jake Burgess

All the paperwork I have received has come from BW as did the previous two letters of claim , could this be because it is a claim going back to early 2015?


BWL are likely handling all the initial paperwork, but the actual claim will come from VCS themselves. If the LBA comes with the relevant annexe document, its probable VCS will issue court papers.
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instrumentsofjoy
post Sun, 28 Oct 2018 - 10:58
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I am another one who pledged. Happy to continue with it. I think I offered a tenner.
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bobthesod
post Sun, 28 Oct 2018 - 14:47
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Lynnzer dis pop up on a thread the other day. If he sees this perhaps he could clarify the situation. and Yes i will be in for a tenner as and when
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 28 Oct 2018 - 17:50
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Me too but not to pay for a certain lay rep who should be avoided.
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Dave65
post Sun, 28 Oct 2018 - 18:16
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My pledge is still their also.
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webster1
post Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 12:13
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[quote name='hexaflexagon' date='Wed, 17 Oct 2018

I played a very small part in providing some of the factual stuff and quotes from various parties including LJLA, Liverpool Council and the DfT. for the defence arguments.

I saw the eventual defence arguments and statements and (admittedly as a lay person) felt that an important milestone had been reached with the final defence papers which were to be used in court. It appeared to me an extremely well constructed and argued case, which of course I'd expect from a professional barrister who put the thing together, and I had high hopes.

The defence was I believe somewhat different to bargepole's view, but that's not to say that was wrong, just different. If we learn anything from these things it's that sometimes different judge's are swayed by different arguments on essentially the same circumstances.

I of course respect Webster1's decision not to go ahead in the circumstances but believe the work that has been done will be extremely useful at some point.

One aspect that I think we should try and thrash out is where best to have one of these cases heard. I believe webster1 chose Sheffield, almost next door to the VCS offices because it had been suggested that St. Helen's, which was the nearest court was too close to the Liverpool court which heard the Business Park case which was similar, but different in some important aspects and therefore distinguishable.

Was there any reason to believe that a St Helen's Court would have any connection with Liverpool, and that the mere fact they are only a few miles apart might mean the same Judges might sit in both?

One thought I had was that it would do no harm to make it more expensive for VCS to argue in a court as far removed from Sheffield as possible. Carlisle or perhaps Berwick on Tweed ~200 miles away in the North spring to mind. And even better somewhere in Devon or Cornwall ~ 300 miles away.
That would surely increase the possibility of VCS asking for the case to be heard on the papers, or in the event that they do seek to make the case in person the chance that on the day they would be delayed and fail to appear.

The point about the pledges has been answered but in Lynnzer's absence, since it seeme he alone held the pledge list, it would do no harm to formalise this, perhaps as a thread in this forum to which people could add their own pledges so that there's complete clarity.

Thoughts...
[/quote]
Apologies for the late reply I've just returned from a couple of weeks away. I just want to say that Hex played no small part and has been a huge source of support to me throughout this whole case, so thank you!
I've been given permission to share the SA and also another SA for the case that went to Court after me. I'll have to sort this out and take my info off, as people know as I'm pretty abysmal at uploading stuff onto this site! I'll get it sorted in the next few days. Again thank you to all those that supported me and hopefully this will help the next person that VCS take to Court.

.....also initially I got the Letter Before Claim and a Directions Questionnaire from BW before VCS sent one.
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hexaflexagon
post Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 13:49
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QUOTE (webster1 @ Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 12:13) *
Apologies for the late reply I've just returned from a couple of weeks away. I just want to say that Hex played no small part and has been a huge source of support to me throughout this whole case, so thank you!
I've been given permission to share the SA and also another SA for the case that went to Court after me. I'll have to sort this out and take my info off, as people know as I'm pretty abysmal at uploading stuff onto this site! I'll get it sorted in the next few days. Again thank you to all those that supported me and hopefully this will help the next person that VCS take to Court.

.....also initially I got the Letter Before Claim and a Directions Questionnaire from BW before VCS sent one.


Thanks webster1. Good to know that it can be shared. Thanks.
If it helps I've grapped the text from the original SA .pdf and can redact it to remove any references to your case and making it a general SA.

One thought arises, what's the general view about making it publicly available here? One downside is presumably that VCS will undoubtedly read it and allow them to tailor their arguments accordingly...or maybe they can do that anyway once a SA and WS are filed at court, in which case it may not matter. But I think we should agree how best to use this.

I also asked the other day about choosing a court other than Sheffield (too easy for VCS) or Liverpool (which seems to be unfriendly as far as these matters are concerned). What's the general view with this?

Lynnzer, if you're watching this thread can you let us know how much has been pledged? Louise may well have been able to continue had there been some de-risking of the costs.

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bearclaw
post Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 16:20
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Further to the comments above at some point I pledged a tenner and I am happy for that to stand as well.
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hexaflexagon
post Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 17:13
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Note to the Admins/Moderators.

Re the fighting fund pledges.

Is there a forum facility which would allow members to record their pledges so that they are visible and we can understand what's available. Perhaps a sticky which anyone could add to?
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bobthesod
post Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 20:18
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Good idea hexa
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webster1
post Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 20:29
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[quote name='hexaflexagon' date='Mon, 29 Oct 2018

Thanks webster1. Good to know that it can be shared. Thanks.
If it helps I've grapped the text from the original SA .pdf and can redact it to remove any references to your case and making it a general SA.

One thought arises, what's the general view about making it publicly available here? One downside is presumably that VCS will undoubtedly read it and allow them to tailor their arguments accordingly...or maybe they can do that anyway once a SA and WS are filed at court, in which case it may not matter. But I think we should agree how best to use this.

I
[/quote]

If it's decided that the SA be posted on here then I woukd very much appreciate you doing that, thank you. I'll send the other SA too which has already had info redacted.
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