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Residents Parking (Hackney) - lapsed permit
xanthe_tyler
post Mon, 5 Jan 2015 - 20:08
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Hi all, first time poster!

I have not attached the PCNs in question as I'm sleep deprived and it all seems way too hard right now - may do so tomorrow! But it's just general advice I am after.

I recently went abroad very suddenly due to bereavement, for a month. While I was away my resident's permit expired (on Dec 3) and I was dismayed to arrive home to 3 PCNs (on Dec 30). They were dated 17, 22, and 29 Dec.

On my return on December 30, I went directly to the Town Hall to renew my permit but found it closed until Jan 2. So I was completely open to more PCNs that day, the next, and the 2nd. This seems really unfair to me. When I got back to my car, there was yet another PCN on the windscreen.

Two questions:

1. why were there only 3 PCNs - is there a limit to the number that can be issued? (I'm not complaining, just worried that more were issued but became unattached!) It seems as though it was only 1 per week - sound correct?

2. is it lawful for the council to issue PCNs to its residents, when they are offering no way for them to arrange a new permit? It's true that I had received a letter (probably back in Oct) that my permit was up for renewal and that I should do so online. But when I tried to renew online, the site would not process it because it had to be within 6 weeks of the expiry. So the letter got put aside and then forgotten in the rush to go abroad for a funeral. It's lovely that the council's employees got such a nice long christmas break but it does leave people like me high and dry.

Any ideas?

Thank you!
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post Mon, 5 Jan 2015 - 20:08
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Mad Mick V
post Mon, 5 Jan 2015 - 20:35
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Phone the Council to determine how many PCNs have been issued.

Post up the PCNs and outline the contravention code used.Was the expired permit displayed during your trip or is it a virtual permit?

If the vehicle was not moved during the period the PCNs were given then only the first is relevant. The rest fall under continuous contravention (use the search box) and most likely could be cancelled.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 - 20:36
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xanthe_tyler
post Wed, 7 Jan 2015 - 10:13
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Hi Mike, thank you for your reply. Been rather slow in organising the photos but here they are. I've included the back once, and the payment slip once.

The PCN dated 22nd I have already challenged, as it was coming to the end of the 14 day discount period there was a slight error on the registration number. Hopefully that will be enough to remove that one from the equation.

Annoyingly I miscalculated the dates when we returned on the 30th, we were actually still within the 14 day period to challenge that one too, but I was in such a tizzy that I didn't realise.

Thanks for looking!






And the back and slip:


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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 7 Jan 2015 - 11:14
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A code 19 on the PCN would suggest that the expired permit was evident to the CEO. Otherwise the charge would have been £130 per PCN.

If you have to pay, make sure it's the 1st PCN only.

If the vehicle was not moved
then it is a continuous contravention and only the 1st PCN should be valid.

Send the Council something like this:-

??? additional PCNs (numbers????) were issued to my vehicle on ???? and ???? and ??? although the vehicle had not moved since the first PCN was issued. This is therefore a continuous contravention and the additional PCNs should be classed as invalid and cancelled. The effect of the additional PCNs is that I am being penalised numerous times for the same alleged contravention. This is both unfair and against the European Convention on Human Rights which indicates you cannot be punished twice for the same "offence". Therefore the aggregate penalty charge exceeds the amount applicable in the circumstances of this case.

In terms of Continuous Contravention I would refer the Council to PATAS Cases 2110166557, 2140191859, 2140184092, 2140234882, which all justify this ground of appeal.

Mick
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John U.K.
post Wed, 7 Jan 2015 - 12:40
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QUOTE
The PCN dated 22nd I have already challenged, as it was coming to the end of the 14 day discount period there was a slight error on the registration number. Hopefully that will be enough to remove that one from the equation.



"A slight error"

Was the registration number on the PCN the number of your vehicle?
If not, it refers to a different vehicle.
The owner of that vehicle, not you, is liable for that PCN.
The owner of that vehicle, not you, is entitled to challenge that PCN.

If this is the first of your series of PCNs, then the first issued with the correct reg. is the first applying to your vehicle.




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xanthe_tyler
post Mon, 12 Jan 2015 - 17:46
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Mick - thank you so much for replying and apologies for the delay in my reply. I am appealing the 29th and 30th now, and using your words! Thanks again!

John - the CEO put down an "I" instead of a "1". Easily done but I'm hoping it is enough to invalidate it - any chance d'you think? It wasn't the first one issued though (loath to put any more detail than that)...
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John U.K.
post Mon, 12 Jan 2015 - 19:15
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QUOTE (xanthe_tyler @ Mon, 12 Jan 2015 - 18:46) *
Mick - thank you so much for replying and apologies for the delay in my reply. I am appealing the 29th and 30th now, and using your words! Thanks again!

John - the CEO put down an "I" instead of a "1". Easily done but I'm hoping it is enough to invalidate it - any chance d'you think? It wasn't the first one issued though (loath to put any more detail than that)...


Hmmmmmm. I fear I have not enough experience to judge on the merits of 1 v. I v. I sad.gif

See what the experts say.

Have you had a reply to your challenge on this one?

This post has been edited by John U.K.: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 - 19:32
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Enceladus
post Mon, 12 Jan 2015 - 19:25
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When posting documents such as your Penalty Charge Notices, it is only necessary to obscure/redact your name & address, PCN number and vehicle reg where these are present. Everything else, especially any time, date, location and council info please leave clearly visible.

I suggest you proceed in the tried and tested manner. So please re-post your PCNs correctly.

Thanks,

This post has been edited by Enceladus: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 - 21:51
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xanthe_tyler
post Wed, 21 Jan 2015 - 10:48
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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Mon, 12 Jan 2015 - 19:15) *
QUOTE (xanthe_tyler @ Mon, 12 Jan 2015 - 18:46) *
Mick - thank you so much for replying and apologies for the delay in my reply. I am appealing the 29th and 30th now, and using your words! Thanks again!

John - the CEO put down an "I" instead of a "1". Easily done but I'm hoping it is enough to invalidate it - any chance d'you think? It wasn't the first one issued though (loath to put any more detail than that)...


Hmmmmmm. I fear I have not enough experience to judge on the merits of 1 v. I v. I sad.gif

See what the experts say.

Have you had a reply to your challenge on this one?


No reply yet, but a bonus "Notice to Owner" for yet another PCN, issued before the other 4, that I didn't even know about! Hooray.

I have written to them using the photographs they took at a later date, which show there was no PCN attached at the time. I was out of the country so could not have removed it myself.

What a mess, if these disputes don't work I'm really in for a lean month.
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