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Summons received - Speeding
Ray Adams
post Wed, 21 May 2008 - 16:31
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Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice, any would be appreciated!

On 10th December 07 the following happened:

Went to Asda, picked up some shopping as well as my contact lenses from the in store opticians. After I left I was enjoying quite a pleasurable steady drive back on the motorway, driving mainly in the inside lane, when I came across a number of lorries. 2 miles to the junction the sat nav said, so I pulled out to overtake. As the junction got closer the traffic suddenly built up. I needed to come off at this junction, coming off a the next one meant driving through town which would be nightmare. Anyway, the traffic was doing about 50-60mph and I indicated to pull in from the outside lane. Despite the speed, the cars in the middle lane were travelling bunched up as if to say "You shall not pass" and the car just to the rear of me in the middle lane (a dark blue volvo) gave no indication as to it's intentions and with the junction looming I decided to pull across into the inside lane. As I did, I realised the reason for the sudden build up in traffic was roadworks which actually meant the inside lane was closed just before the junction, which meant that I needed to pull out in to the middle lane again, so I indicated and, with the same car in the middle lane a bit further back now I pulled in to the middle lane.

There was a gap in the roadworks to come off at the junction so I did. I noticed that the car I had 'cut across' came off too but with my 'road rage temper' now in check, compared to my younger days, I decided to ignore him. We both turned left at the junction roundabout and after about 600 yards I went straight on at the next roundabout thinking nothing more of it. Suddenly I glance up into my rear view mirror and noticed the same volvo was now right up my @rse, I slowed down trying to give him the hint to back off but he was still right up my @rse so I decided to floor it, a bad habit that I still have from my younger days. Anyway, the volvo caught up at the lights at the next roundabout. And as it pulled up behind me I noticed the lights in the grill and the flourescent jacket worn by the driver, and that's when I thought "Oh dear" (or something to that effect)

Anyway, we continued on and when the lights came on, as expected, I pulled over.

The conversation started as much as anyone who has been pulled over by the police would expect.

Police Oficer "You know why i've pulled you over, don't you"
Me "I have a fair idea, yes"

Then, it just went down hill. You see, I have an affliction, I know not of any name for the affliction I have, none the less, I have it!

I HATE POLICE OFFICERS!

Generally because they are all arrogant bullies who think they are above the law, and this one was not about to do anything but prove this fact.

When asked why I cut across him on the motorway I asked the question back "Why were you refusing to indicate wether or not you were letting me in?" and "Why were you travelling within a couple of cars length of the car in front at 60 mph on the motorway?" Plod's response to this questioning was......well, I think you can imagine.

I was summoned into the unmarked police car were I was promptly informed by the judge.....sorry, police officer, that I was going to lose my license for 'this'.

I was given a producer and told that I would be reported for the offence of speeding in a 50mph limit. As I opened the door and got out of the car, I asked the officer if I could borrow his pen, to which the reply was "No" and the officer laughed as he said it. So, leaving the passenger door open I went to take a photo of the unmarked car to record the reg no. The officer got out of the car and asked me "What are you doing that for?" So, I told him that I was going to be reporting him for the rather innapropriate habit of his for driving far to close to the vehicle in front at speed.

Again, his response was not good. "Fine, then in that case i'll be reporting you for the offence of driving without due care and attention also". Seeing that this was going nowhere I decided to leave and at this point the officer starting hurling his verbal abuse "People like you shouldn't be allowed to have a license" and "You're a sad little man" we're among the taunts. I got into my car and realised the memory card was not in my phone so it did not save the photo, so I waited for him to leave so I could record the reg no.

Anyway....moving on......On Saturday (18th May) I received a summons to court for the 10th June. The witness statement from the officer ommits lots of details about what happened and claims that he maintained a speed behind me of 94-96mph for a distance of 0.2mls which is ludicrous. I know for a fact that I accelerated up to 70mph at which point i'd pulled away from the car so I slowed down to the speed limit which was 50mph.

I am willing to plead guilty to the charge of speeding, because I did break the speed limit, however I dispute the speed the officer accuses me of.

I have been down to the court and received some advice from the legal clerk (If that's what they're called?) Who say's that I can plead guilty but refute the speed.

Any advice on what to expect in court? I'm representing myself so any advice on how to do that would also be very appreciated.


p.s. After receiving advice from CAB and friends I decided not to pursue a complaint against the officer at the time.
p.p.s. I know, i'm an idiot! wink.gif
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post Wed, 21 May 2008 - 16:31
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jobo
post Wed, 21 May 2008 - 16:51
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sorry mate dozed off in the middle

what have you been charged with exactly


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jobo

anyone but Murray, Wish granted for another year,
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jobo
post Wed, 21 May 2008 - 16:54
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occording to one of our new poster an ex pc

all these cars are fitted with video which may help your case


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jobo

anyone but Murray, Wish granted for another year,
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Ray Adams
post Wed, 21 May 2008 - 23:27
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Sorry for the late post but i'm a United fan so you can guess what i've been doing tonight biggrin.gif

jobo: dozed off?? not much help there then!! I do apologise for boring you, lol.....nobody forced you to read my post.....I've been charged with doing 94-96mph in a 50mph zone.

As for the unmarked police car being fitted with video recording equipment, I don't think it was because there's no mention of it???

Anyway......if anyone else can manage to stay awake through my boring ramblings then any help/advice would be appreciated.

This post has been edited by Ray Adams: Wed, 21 May 2008 - 23:34
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BaggieBoy
post Thu, 22 May 2008 - 09:45
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Completing the NIP Wizard might be a good start.

This post has been edited by BaggieBoy: Thu, 22 May 2008 - 09:46
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davepoth
post Thu, 22 May 2008 - 10:18
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The PC wouldn't mention the video equipment if it didn't back up his case.

If you believe you have done nothing wrong, you need to plead not guilty and ask for the video that would almost certainly have been recorded. And complaining about the officer would be a very good idea given the circumstances.


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The Rookie
post Thu, 22 May 2008 - 12:34
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Personally I think special reasons not to endorse are more applicable....

Special reasons criteria:-
1) be a mitigating or extenuating circumstance;
2) not amount to a defence in law to the charge;
3) be directly connected with the commission of the offence;
4) be one which the court ought propoerly to take into consideration when imposing sentence .

This would be on the basis that the police driver was acting in a threatening manner and essentially you were trying to make the situation safe.

To do this you plead guilty, but as part of the trial will need to 'suggest' the video evidence is reviewed as it will show this action.

And how NOT to do it! http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?d...;method=boolean


Simon


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Ray Adams
post Thu, 22 May 2008 - 13:02
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QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Thu, 22 May 2008 - 10:45) *
Completing the NIP Wizard might be a good start.


It would be a great start mate......but I only received a written summons. I did get a verbal NIP at the time, but the NIP Wizard seems to be for written ones received in the post.....I'll fill one out anyway smile.gif

This post has been edited by Ray Adams: Thu, 22 May 2008 - 13:02
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Ray Adams
post Thu, 22 May 2008 - 13:07
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - December 2007
Date of the NIP: - 0 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 0 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A473 towards Bridgend
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? -
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 6
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - A car was driving to close behind me. I slowed down to give a hint to the guy to back off, he didn't so I put my foot down to get away from him. I then found it was an unmarked police car and was pulled over. (See post for further details)

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 22 May 2008 14:07:40 +0100
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Ray Adams
post Thu, 22 May 2008 - 13:18
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QUOTE (davepoth @ Thu, 22 May 2008 - 11:18) *
The PC wouldn't mention the video equipment if it didn't back up his case.

If you believe you have done nothing wrong, you need to plead not guilty and ask for the video that would almost certainly have been recorded. And complaining about the officer would be a very good idea given the circumstances.


Hi Mate. I don't believe I have done nothing wrong. I did speed on the bypass and I did cut in between the unmarked car and the car in front [of the unmarked car] on the motorway. Both of which were stupid things to do which I would not repeat today (not just because it was an unmaked police car! wink.gif ). If I honestly believed that complaining about the officer would result in anything (even a slim chance) then I would do, however we're talking about the police force here! And knowing how corrupt it is, I know how pointless a complaint would be.


QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 22 May 2008 - 13:34) *
Personally I think special reasons not to endorse are more applicable....

Special reasons criteria:-
1) be a mitigating or extenuating circumstance;
2) not amount to a defence in law to the charge;
3) be directly connected with the commission of the offence;
4) be one which the court ought propoerly to take into consideration when imposing sentence .

This would be on the basis that the police driver was acting in a threatening manner and essentially you were trying to make the situation safe.

To do this you plead guilty, but as part of the trial will need to 'suggest' the video evidence is reviewed as it will show this action.

And how NOT to do it! http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?d...;method=boolean


Simon


Hi Simon, thank-you for your points. How do I find out if there is video evidence? Can I go along to the police station and ask?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 22 May 2008 - 13:37
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It should be listed as unused evidnce in the summons....

Simon


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Ray Adams
post Thu, 22 May 2008 - 13:42
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 22 May 2008 - 14:37) *
It should be listed as unused evidnce in the summons....

Simon


Nope, no mention of any unused evidence in the summons. I assume that means there isn't any..??
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The Rookie
post Thu, 22 May 2008 - 13:58
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Probably not, making it all but impossible to prove I'm afraid....


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Ray Adams
post Thu, 22 May 2008 - 14:02
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Am I best to just plead guilty and take the hit then? I'm getting the impression that if I try to defend myself saying that I wasn't going as fast as the officer claims then, to put it simply, I will not be believed over a 'fine, upstanding, pillar of the community' police officer.

What sort of punishment should I expect if I just plead guilty?

This post has been edited by Ray Adams: Thu, 22 May 2008 - 14:03
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The Rookie
post Thu, 22 May 2008 - 14:11
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http://www.pepipoo.com/Magistrates_guidelines.htm

Simon


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Ray Adams
post Thu, 22 May 2008 - 14:14
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Thanks again Simon.
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Ray Adams
post Tue, 10 Jun 2008 - 13:21
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For Information:

I attended the court hearing this morning and decided to keep quiet and plead guilty. Not my normal attitude but I just wanted it over and done with and wasn't confident that I would be treated fairly if I dared to say the officer behaved unprofessionaly.

Anyway, I received a 10 week ban and a £165 fine incl costs.

And I thoroughly enjoyed being treated like a statistical stereotype!

I'm off to have my tongue stitched back on.

Peace out
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