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PCN from council
John Bravo
post Fri, 9 Sep 2016 - 21:48
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Hi All,
I hope you are well.
Some time ago I have received a PCN. I have done online representation to it. They have sent a letter asking to provide an invoice of car repair as a proof or accept the fine and pay £65 within 14 days.
After that I have scanned, uploaded and submitted a scanned document via their online system. Used exactly the same PCN number and car reg number to login to online appeal facility.
After 2 weeks I have received a Notice To Owner instead asking to pay £130, so no Notice of Rejection or Acceptance, so far.
What should I do now. I can only do a formal representation at the moment. I assume that the previous online representation was kind of informal.

I have these options on the list:
A - The alleged Contravention did not occur
B I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of contravention
- I have sold the vehicle before that date
- I had brought the vehicle after that date
- I have never owned that vehicle
C - The vehicle was taken without my consent
D - We are a hire firm and have supplied details
E - The Penalty Charge exceeds the relevant amount
F - There has been a procedural impropriety by the Enforcement Authority
G - The traffic order contravened is invalid
H - The Notice should not have been served because the Penalty Charge had already been paid
I - Other

I was going to go for Other, but not sure how they treat Other in comparison to variant F - procedural impropriety.
Please advise.
Thank you
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post Fri, 9 Sep 2016 - 21:48
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John U.K.
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 19:24
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QUOTE
So, show us the original PCN.


John said he long ago mislaid original PCN (post #158)

Hence my query - IF the council maintain there is a true copy in the evidence pack .. if the Adj takes the Council's evidence as submitted at face value as a triue copy... then ergo there was info missing on the original.
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hcandersen
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 19:56
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A certified true copy of the PCN IS a requirement in that without it no adj could satisfy themselves that one was served, after which the whole house of cards falls.

Whether this is a 'legal' requirement is beside the point, in the absence of a true copy substantially correct in all detail the adj would allow an appeal - and as we know even if these grounds had not been raised by the appellant.

As the government made clear in their briefing paper which accompanied the TM Bill, decriminalisation was not to be used to water-down the standard of evidence.
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John Bravo
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 20:12
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The front page of the PCN apart from PCN number and dates does not state any authority. Only on the reverse I can read in section HOW TO PAY, HOW TO CHALLENGE the address details of the TH council.
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cp8759
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 13:58
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Then you can reasonably contend the PCN does not satisfy the requirements of paragraph 1b of the schedule to the general regs: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3483/schedule/made


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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John Bravo
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 23:54
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 18 May 2018 - 13:58) *
Then you can reasonably contend the PCN does not satisfy the requirements of paragraph 1b of the schedule to the general regs: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3483/schedule/made

Should write all this down and let them decide "offline" or ask for a hearing "online"?
I have 2 days to send a response, evidences.
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cp8759
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 13:32
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Hearings are in person, so you'd have to go to the tribunal. Personally I would chose to attend a hearing but you have to consider whether this would mean taking time off work.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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John Bravo
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 14:13
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 21 May 2018 - 13:32) *
Hearings are in person, so you'd have to go to the tribunal. Personally I would chose to attend a hearing but you have to consider whether this would mean taking time off work.

ok, it is not a problem for me to go there, from the last time I remember they are based in Islington, Angel station, London.
I think including commute it should not take longer than 1.5-2h
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John U.K.
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 14:21
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QUOTE
rom the last time I remember they are based in Islington, Angel station, London.


Now moved to Furnival Street. See

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat
and
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/co...-hearing-centre
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John Bravo
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 17:14
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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Mon, 21 May 2018 - 14:21) *
QUOTE
rom the last time I remember they are based in Islington, Angel station, London.


Now moved to Furnival Street. See

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat
and
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/co...-hearing-centre


Oh, great, it looks even closer to me.
Do I have to write to them to ask for a hearing or give them a call?
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John U.K.
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 18:43
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Should write all this down and let them decide "offline" or ask for a hearing "online"?
I have 2 days to send a response, evidences.



What is the source of this deadline? The letter in Post #136 which says 27th.May?

Must admit I am a bit confused sad.gif

I think you need to ring LT in morning and ask whether a personal hearing is possible in your particular circumstances.

Hopefully the experts here will chip in with some advice for you.



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John Bravo
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 13:57
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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Mon, 21 May 2018 - 18:43) *
QUOTE
Should write all this down and let them decide "offline" or ask for a hearing "online"?
I have 2 days to send a response, evidences.



What is the source of this deadline? The letter in Post #136 which says 27th.May?

Must admit I am a bit confused sad.gif

I think you need to ring LT in morning and ask whether a personal hearing is possible in your particular circumstances.

Hopefully the experts here will chip in with some advice for you.

yes, the deadline is 27th

I think I give them a ring
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John Bravo
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 15:45
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ok, so I have asked for a hearing which will be on 7th of June at 2:30pm, so I can start preparing my line of defence.
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