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UK's first Dutch style roundabout, A roundabout with a continous prority cycle path opens in Cambridge.
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post Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 12:13
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A Dutch style roundabout, with a continuous circular cycle path around the outer diameter giving cyclists priority over cars at entrances and exits has opened in Cambridge- implied to be the first in the UK.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-n...s-in-cambridge/

A bit of drone footage (apologies it is the Daily Mail)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUrZ3jmgXgs


I was initially quite impressed by this, then on inspection, somewhat less so.

The idea is sound, create a cycle lane that goes round the roundabout, giving cyclists priority, but the implementation seems flawed to me, the road markings are inconsistent.

At some exits the cycle path is within the bounds of a pedestrian crossing, at one of them it isn't, and has Give Way markings at the exit, and where the pedestrian crossing cuts the cycle path is marked inconsistently too.

There doesn't seem any actual reason for the inconsistency, except to confuse drivers, most of whom will be confused enough actually having to stop for cyclists coming from their left when exiting the island.

I foresee a few incidents at the exits....




I welcome them tbh, round here we have "The Circles of Death", 4 interlinked islands, some junctions have lights on entry, but not all, and there are lights half way round one of them too.
If you try cycling around with the traffic, you really do take your life in your hands with all the stopping and lane switching, but luckily there is a thoughtful cycle path, that crosses exits with no protection rolleyes.gif , so again you risk death using it as you never know if a car is about to exit on two wheels whilst you are crossing (assuming you could pass through the car halted across the cycle path on the other side wink.gif ).
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post Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 12:13
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The Rookie
post Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 14:23
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It looks obvious to me that the pedestrian crossing is further away on that one exit because of the private drive (grey car with panoramic sunroof), you would be exiting the road via the pedestrian crossing (and through the people waiting to cross) if it was in the same place as the others. (go to 1:31 on the video if in doubt).

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 14:24


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Atomic Tomato
post Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 16:22
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So you cycle up to the roundabout and want the third exit. You can either use the cycle path or the read, if you use the road you can cut the distance you need to cycle by over half

In my opinion it should have been 2 way

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post Tue, 11 Aug 2020 - 09:59
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 15:23) *
It looks obvious to me that the pedestrian crossing is further away on that one exit because of the private drive (grey car with panoramic sunroof), you would be exiting the road via the pedestrian crossing (and through the people waiting to cross) if it was in the same place as the others. (go to 1:31 on the video if in doubt).


I hadn't noticed the drive, but under TSRGD2016 the crossing give way dashes can be upto 10m from the crossing if the TA thinks fit (p475 in my copy), so they could still all 4 be the same, but I think I'd have moved the other 3 crossings 1m back, then the crossing Give Way could be at the cycle path, and they could have put 3 more triangular Give Way marks on the other exits, to make it obvious to cars that they have to stop for the cyclists.

QUOTE (Atomic Tomato @ Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 17:22) *
So you cycle up to the roundabout and want the third exit. You can either use the cycle path or the read, if you use the road you can cut the distance you need to cycle by over half

In my opinion it should have been 2 way



I think there will be enough near misses with cars when they are all going one way! Also, you don't have to use a cycle path clogged with wobbly 3mph riders, you can simply ride the road if you are confident enough, so you can just take the shorter road route on a cycle anyway.

This post has been edited by facade: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 - 10:00
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The Rookie
post Tue, 11 Aug 2020 - 10:34
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QUOTE (facade @ Tue, 11 Aug 2020 - 10:59) *
so you can just take the shorter road route on a cycle anyway.

And have drivers screaming at you to use the cycle path.......often that you MUST use it!

Personally I'm not keen, unless we get to a critical mass of these I can see drivers failing to give way properly when exiting, 'left hooks' are going to be an issue.


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mickR
post Tue, 11 Aug 2020 - 10:36
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I can see this ending in tears, mainly for cyclist families. We do not have the same cycling culture or road user mentality in this country.
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Atomic Tomato
post Tue, 11 Aug 2020 - 12:26
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Well that worked well

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post Wed, 12 Aug 2020 - 10:49
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 11 Aug 2020 - 11:34) *
Personally I'm not keen, unless we get to a critical mass of these I can see drivers failing to give way properly when exiting, 'left hooks' are going to be an issue.



Which is why I favour putting "proper" Give Way triangles and markings on every exit. I doubt if many drivers realise that the little single dashes are also "Give Way"!

Notice the road is single lane all the way round, which will likely cut car/car accidents right down as no-one is trying to change lanes half way round.
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roythebus
post Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 13:00
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The £2.8m cost would probably save more lives had it been used to fill pot holes. The cost of it has gone up by about 150% and nobody bats an eyelid. The cost of a rilway project goes up by the same % amount and the whole country screams about it.
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Fredd
post Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 13:42
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 14:00) *
The £2.8m cost would probably save more lives had it been used to fill pot holes. The cost of it has gone up by about 150% and nobody bats an eyelid. The cost of a rilway project goes up by the same % amount and the whole country screams about it.

Might be because the bill for railway projects seem to have another three zeros talked on the end. smile.gif


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Rallyman72
post Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 18:15
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 14:42) *
QUOTE (roythebus @ Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 14:00) *
The £2.8m cost would probably save more lives had it been used to fill pot holes. The cost of it has gone up by about 150% and nobody bats an eyelid. The cost of a rilway project goes up by the same % amount and the whole country screams about it.

Might be because the bill for railway projects seem to have another three zeros talked on the end. smile.gif

But the cost of the rail project is spread over 10 years. It is also Capital Expenditure which means it is funded from Government borrowing on a year by year basis, not from taxation, there simply isn't a big pot of money sitting there waiting to be spent. And that CapEx spend generates more tax for the Government, that is used for Operating expenses such as running the NHS ...


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The Rookie
post Thu, 20 Aug 2020 - 10:05
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QUOTE (Rallyman72 @ Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 19:15) *
it is funded from Government borrowing on a year by year basis, not from taxation,...

Erm, what repays the borrowing?

So yes it is payed for from taxation.


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cp8759
post Thu, 20 Aug 2020 - 11:28
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 20 Aug 2020 - 11:05) *
QUOTE (Rallyman72 @ Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 19:15) *
it is funded from Government borrowing on a year by year basis, not from taxation,...

Erm, what repays the borrowing?

So yes it is payed for from taxation.

Really? I thought it was paid from more borrowing. There's been no paying down of the national debt from taxation for many years.


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The Rookie
post Fri, 21 Aug 2020 - 07:28
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LOL, OK taxation pays the cost of the borrowing! To be fair it does happen occasionally (in real terms). Last pay down of the national debt was 1997-2000 at the start of the Blair governments (mostly through measures put in place by the Major government) before that government started to increase spending again, with a big uptick after the GFC in 08 and 09.

Of course the relevant measure is national debt as a percentage of GDP, that has just topped 100% (due to the CV19 measures) for the first time since 1963 having dropped to circa 25% at the end of the Thatcherite years.
The ONS has a an easy to see (and up to) date graph
https://www.ons.gov.uk/resource?uri=/econom...20/5b28d1d2.png

For more detail the ONS produce a Net borrowing page and you can adjust the timeline for detail.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpu...eries/dzls/pusf

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 - 07:30


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