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Speeding fine in New Zealand
alwaysstuckinsec...
post Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 20:41
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I visited NZ with 2 other friends in December. We rented a car and I was registered as first driver of the vehicle although all 3 of us drove the vehicle. Today I received a speeding fine, addressed to me, in the post and an infringement fee to pay.

Any one of the 3 of us could have been driving the car at the time, but the notice has come through to me as I was registered as first driver of the vehicle and the rental company have my credit card details which I am assuming are now with the police. Together we are not disputing paying the fine as the law was broken and these are the rules. But I do not feel okay with accepting responsibility for driving the vehicle when I was not.

On the notice, it says "if the infringement fee is paid, records will show you have accepted responsibility for driving the vehicle at the time of the offence".

The fact is I don't want to take responsibility for this, especially as I genuinely don't think I was driving the vehicle at the time and we don't know who was.

I am also planning to return to NZ and I don't want this to be on my records. I was reading about demerit points and understand this would affect me when I go back to NZ. I also don't want it to have an impact on my UK driving license as I have a job where any black mark against your name can seriously affect you.


I've also been sent a transfer of responsibility form with the option to say that it has "not been possible to identify the person in possession of the vehicle at the time of the offence" - does anyone have any experience with whether this would help get this fine off my records? And how do NZ police pursue fines if this was the case? The last thing I want is for the fine to increase, or for them to summon me to court as they would in the UK! I do accept that is a legitimate fine unlike a private parking one, so I understand the fine does somehow need to be paid. I just don't want to take responsibility for it.


Sorry for the lengthy post - I have looked on NZ's police website and at forums online but there isn't much information on what happens if I sent the form saying I was unable to identify who was in possession of the vehicle at the time. Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!
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post Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 20:41
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Fredd
post Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 20:54
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You could try sending a PM to jaykay - he hasn't been online for a year or so, but does seem to have considerable experience of dealing with traffic offences in New Zealand!


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cp8759
post Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 21:16
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Whatever happens, it can't affect your UK licence.
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thisisntme
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 00:22
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How many demerit points you might have will depend on the speed. I was caught by a police car on the Highway/motorway north of Auckland and was 3 kph away from them taking the keys. At 137kph the officer told me that if I had had a NZ licence I would have had my demerits halfway to losing the licence. You get 1kph tolerance around public holidays but 10% at other times.


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Churchmouse
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 21:28
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QUOTE (alwaysstuckinsecondgear @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 20:41) *
I visited NZ with 2 other friends in December. We rented a car and I was registered as first driver of the vehicle although all 3 of us drove the vehicle. Today I received a speeding fine, addressed to me, in the post and an infringement fee to pay.

Any one of the 3 of us could have been driving the car at the time, but the notice has come through to me as I was registered as first driver of the vehicle and the rental company have my credit card details which I am assuming are now with the police. Together we are not disputing paying the fine as the law was broken and these are the rules. But I do not feel okay with accepting responsibility for driving the vehicle when I was not.

On the notice, it says "if the infringement fee is paid, records will show you have accepted responsibility for driving the vehicle at the time of the offence".

The fact is I don't want to take responsibility for this, especially as I genuinely don't think I was driving the vehicle at the time and we don't know who was.

I am also planning to return to NZ and I don't want this to be on my records. I was reading about demerit points and understand this would affect me when I go back to NZ. I also don't want it to have an impact on my UK driving license as I have a job where any black mark against your name can seriously affect you.


I've also been sent a transfer of responsibility form with the option to say that it has "not been possible to identify the person in possession of the vehicle at the time of the offence" - does anyone have any experience with whether this would help get this fine off my records? And how do NZ police pursue fines if this was the case? The last thing I want is for the fine to increase, or for them to summon me to court as they would in the UK! I do accept that is a legitimate fine unlike a private parking one, so I understand the fine does somehow need to be paid. I just don't want to take responsibility for it.


Sorry for the lengthy post - I have looked on NZ's police website and at forums online but there isn't much information on what happens if I sent the form saying I was unable to identify who was in possession of the vehicle at the time. Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!

If the form gives you the option of responding without knowing who was driving (you seem to be quite sure it wasn't you), that would seem to be the obvious choice. For a local, that answer could mean a trip to court, but they're not going to extradite you from the UK to answer a speeding charge, so they might just drop the whole thing.

Can you post the notice?

Your hire agreement has probably authorised the rental company to charge an "admin fee" to your credit card (have you checked your credit card bill?), but whether the hire company could be held liable to pay your actual speeding fine (and thus charge your card in compensation) is debatable and, in my opinion, unlikely. I also cannot envision a situation in which the NZ police would be "authorised" to simply charge your credit card for the amount of the fine. So, financially, I think you're probably just out the admin fee at this point.

--Churchmouse
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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:59
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Flip this on its head, what happens when a UK driver nominates his NZ friend as the driver of his UK registered car? The police ask for proof of insurance. If this is provided, the case is dropped. There's a chance the same will work the other way round.
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nigelbb
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 23:45
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:59) *
Flip this on its head, what happens when a UK driver nominates his NZ friend as the driver of his UK registered car? The police ask for proof of insurance. If this is provided, the case is dropped. There's a chance the same will work the other way round.

The OP states it was a rental car with three of them driving so I think we can safely assume that the insurance was in order.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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cp8759
post Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 00:27
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 23:45) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:59) *
Flip this on its head, what happens when a UK driver nominates his NZ friend as the driver of his UK registered car? The police ask for proof of insurance. If this is provided, the case is dropped. There's a chance the same will work the other way round.

The OP states it was a rental car with three of them driving so I think we can safely assume that the insurance was in order.

I was more making the point that once UK police are persuaded that it really is a foreign resident who was driving the car, rather than an imaginary foreign Mexican friend, they pursue the matter no further. I suspect the NZ police will take the same approach, rather than seek the OP's extradition.
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GAZ237
post Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 00:16
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QUOTE (alwaysstuckinsecondgear @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 20:41) *
I visited NZ with 2 other friends in December. We rented a car and I was registered as first driver of the vehicle although all 3 of us drove the vehicle. Today I received a speeding fine, addressed to me, in the post and an infringement fee to pay. Any one of the 3 of us could have been driving the car at the time, but the notice has come through to me as I was registered as first driver of the vehicle and the rental company have my credit card details which I am assuming are now with the police. Together we are not disputing paying the fine as the law was broken and these are the rules. But I do not feel okay with accepting responsibility for driving the vehicle when I was not. On the notice, it says "if the infringement fee is paid, records will show you have accepted responsibility for driving the vehicle at the time of the offence". The fact is I don't want to take responsibility for this, especially as I genuinely don't think I was driving the vehicle at the time and we don't know who was. I am also planning to return to NZ and I don't want this to be on my records. I was reading about demerit points and understand this would affect me when I go back to NZ. I also don't want it to have an impact on my UK driving license as I have a job where any black mark against your name can seriously affect you. I've also been sent a transfer of responsibility form with the option to say that it has "not been possible to identify the person in possession of the vehicle at the time of the offence" - does anyone have any experience with whether this would help get this fine off my records? And how do NZ police pursue fines if this was the case? The last thing I want is for the fine to increase, or for them to summon me to court as they would in the UK! I do accept that is a legitimate fine unlike a private parking one, so I understand the fine does somehow need to be paid. I just don't want to take responsibility for it. Sorry for the lengthy post - I have looked on NZ's police website and at forums online but there isn't much information on what happens if I sent the form saying I was unable to identify who was in possession of the vehicle at the time. Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!


Unless things have changed in the last couple of years. If you get caught speeding from a speed camera it's just $80 fine, no points, ( You only get points if stopped by the police) I got caught by the same camera 3 times before I knew it had been installed. It will have no bearing on you in the future. just split the fine 3 ways and pay it .



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:59) *
Flip this on its head, what happens when a UK driver nominates his NZ friend as the driver of his UK registered car? The police ask for proof of insurance. If this is provided, the case is dropped. There's a chance the same will work the other way round.


Car Insurance is not compulsory in New Zealand.

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cp8759
post Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 01:22
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QUOTE (GAZ237 @ Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 00:16) *
Car Insurance is not compulsory in New Zealand.

Then you've missed the point, see post 8.
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nigelbb
post Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 01:59
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 00:27) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 23:45) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:59) *
Flip this on its head, what happens when a UK driver nominates his NZ friend as the driver of his UK registered car? The police ask for proof of insurance. If this is provided, the case is dropped. There's a chance the same will work the other way round.

The OP states it was a rental car with three of them driving so I think we can safely assume that the insurance was in order.

I was more making the point that once UK police are persuaded that it really is a foreign resident who was driving the car, rather than an imaginary foreign Mexican friend, they pursue the matter no further. I suspect the NZ police will take the same approach, rather than seek the OP's extradition.

Many years ago when I lived in France I was nominated as the driver who might have been speeding in the UK. In due course a letter arrived at my home in France from Norfolk Constabulary which I duly ignored & heard no more.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 02:00


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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mickR
post Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 10:40
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Jaykay gave advise on a matter for me.
About 7/8 years back someone I know was travelling round NZ in a rental.
After returning to the UK a speeding fine notice arrived at the hirers (last known) address, they were not the home owner. It was ignored by the home owner.
In all 3 or 4 letters were sent to that address all of which were ignored by the home owner. No reply was sent.
Whether there will be any repercussions if the hirer returns to NZ is not known.
Jaykay seemed to think it would be binned as it wasn't a high enough level offence or value of fine.
This may have changed in the meanwhile.
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Churchmouse
post Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 11:21
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 01:59) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 00:27) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 23:45) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:59) *
Flip this on its head, what happens when a UK driver nominates his NZ friend as the driver of his UK registered car? The police ask for proof of insurance. If this is provided, the case is dropped. There's a chance the same will work the other way round.

The OP states it was a rental car with three of them driving so I think we can safely assume that the insurance was in order.

I was more making the point that once UK police are persuaded that it really is a foreign resident who was driving the car, rather than an imaginary foreign Mexican friend, they pursue the matter no further. I suspect the NZ police will take the same approach, rather than seek the OP's extradition.

Many years ago when I lived in France I was nominated as the driver who might have been speeding in the UK. In due course a letter arrived at my home in France from Norfolk Constabulary which I duly ignored & heard no more.

So was the nominator convicted of failing to ID the driver, or just bog standard PCoJ?

--Churchmouse
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nigelbb
post Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 11:34
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 11:21) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 01:59) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 00:27) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 23:45) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:59) *
Flip this on its head, what happens when a UK driver nominates his NZ friend as the driver of his UK registered car? The police ask for proof of insurance. If this is provided, the case is dropped. There's a chance the same will work the other way round.

The OP states it was a rental car with three of them driving so I think we can safely assume that the insurance was in order.

I was more making the point that once UK police are persuaded that it really is a foreign resident who was driving the car, rather than an imaginary foreign Mexican friend, they pursue the matter no further. I suspect the NZ police will take the same approach, rather than seek the OP's extradition.

Many years ago when I lived in France I was nominated as the driver who might have been speeding in the UK. In due course a letter arrived at my home in France from Norfolk Constabulary which I duly ignored & heard no more.

So was the nominator convicted of failing to ID the driver, or just bog standard PCoJ?

--Churchmouse

Neither as they committed no offence. I was the driver & was correctly nominated. It may have helped that when they nominated me they also sent off a copy of my French driving licence which provided my address.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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