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Spring Parking ticket, Parking on private land
lorelei gilmore
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 10:17
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We have been sent a ticket from Spring Parking.We parked in a private car park and overstayed by 22 minutes.It is free parking and you get 3 hours.They got our details from DVLA and have sent photographs proving their case.It is called a Charge Notice.
They are quoting some new law 'Protection of Freedoms Act 2012'.It is for £95 ,unless we pay in 14 days and they will very kindly knock it down to £55.
Do we have any rights or is it just a case of pay up ?.I really don't want to pay unless it is absolutely necessary.
This is my first post so I hope it is ok.
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post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 10:17
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axeman
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 10:25
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QUOTE (lorelei gilmore @ Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 10:17) *
We have been sent a ticket from Spring Parking.We parked in a private car park and overstayed by 22 minutes.It is free parking and you get 3 hours.They got our details from DVLA and have sent photographs proving their case.It is called a Charge Notice.
They are quoting some new law 'Protection of Freedoms Act 2012'.It is for £95 ,unless we pay in 14 days and they will very kindly knock it down to £55.
Do we have any rights or is it just a case of pay up ?.I really don't want to pay unless it is absolutely necessary.
This is my first post so I hope it is ok.


First, you wont need to pay, second...search the forum for "schoolrunmum" recent posts for great details on how to appeal. 2 ways to do the choice is yours.


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NOTICE The content of this post and of any replies to it may assist in or relate to the formulation of strategy tactics etcetera in a legal action. This post and any replies to it should therefore be assumed to be legally privileged and therefore must not be disclosed, copied, quoted, discussed, used or referred to outside of the PePiPoo forum on which it was originally posted additionally it must not be disclosed, copied, quoted, discussed, used or referred to by any person or organisation other than a member of PePiPoo appropriately paid up and in full compliance with the PePiPoo terms of use for the forum on which it was originally posted. The PePiPoo terms of use can be found at http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=boardrules. For the avoidance of doubt, if you are reading this material in any form other than an on-line HTML resource directly and legitimately accessed via a URL commencing "http://forums.pepipoo.com" then it has been obtained by improper means and you are probably reading it in breach of legal privilege. If the material you are reading does not include this notice then it has been obtained improperly and you are probably reading it in breach of legal privilege. Your attention is drawn to the Written Standards for the Conduct of Professional Work issued by the Bar Standards Board particularly under heading 7, "Documents".

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Gan
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 10:33
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They're members of the British Parking Association which means they have to provide the standard appeals system

This includes the option after they reject your challenge to refer it to POPLA, the so-called independent assessor

This will cost Spring £27 win-or-lose and you can still ignore POPLA even if they turn down your appeal

All that POFA does is let's them chase the registered keeper under certain conditions if they can't identify the driver

It doesn't in any way change the fact that a twenty minutes overstay in a free car park hasn't cost them £95
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Jlc
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 10:49
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There's an interesting link off their website if the PCN begins with '0580'.

Links across to an anonymous payment portal.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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lorelei gilmore
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:08
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Thanks for all the replies.It begins with 0581.If I ignore it ,what are they likely to do,would it just keep going up and up ?. I don't want baliffs or anything like that.Would they be likely to take us to court to enforce it .I parked there yesterday and I am now worried I might have overstayed then by a little while.We do have a blue badge is it worth sending them a copy of it with a letter explaining my husband cannot walk very fast or should I not enter into any correspondance with them ?.

This post has been edited by lorelei gilmore: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:12
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axeman
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:14
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QUOTE (lorelei gilmore @ Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:08) *
Thanks for all the replies.It begins with 0581.If I ignore it ,what are they likely to do,would it just keep going up and up ?. I don't want baliffs or anything like that.Would they be likely to take us to court to enforce it .I parked there yesterday and I am now worried I might have overstayed then by a little while.


1, If you do nothing they will send a series of letters, each one getting more threatening but in reality it will be bluff and bluster
2, appeal as previously detailed and they have to follow BPA guidelines
3, win the appeal and end of matter
4, lose appeal, you have the option to ignore it
5, in order to get bailiffs, you need to be taken to court (almost nil), lose (most unlikely) fail to pay within 28 days, only then can bailiffs get involved

As you can see many hurdles for the PPC to try and jump, relax you wont get a knock on the door


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NOTICE The content of this post and of any replies to it may assist in or relate to the formulation of strategy tactics etcetera in a legal action. This post and any replies to it should therefore be assumed to be legally privileged and therefore must not be disclosed, copied, quoted, discussed, used or referred to outside of the PePiPoo forum on which it was originally posted additionally it must not be disclosed, copied, quoted, discussed, used or referred to by any person or organisation other than a member of PePiPoo appropriately paid up and in full compliance with the PePiPoo terms of use for the forum on which it was originally posted. The PePiPoo terms of use can be found at http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=boardrules. For the avoidance of doubt, if you are reading this material in any form other than an on-line HTML resource directly and legitimately accessed via a URL commencing "http://forums.pepipoo.com" then it has been obtained by improper means and you are probably reading it in breach of legal privilege. If the material you are reading does not include this notice then it has been obtained improperly and you are probably reading it in breach of legal privilege. Your attention is drawn to the Written Standards for the Conduct of Professional Work issued by the Bar Standards Board particularly under heading 7, "Documents".

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved" and do not constitute legal advice. Liability for application lies with the reader.
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Jlc
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:14
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QUOTE (lorelei gilmore @ Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:08) *
Thanks for all the replies.It begins with 0581.If I ignore it ,what are they likely to do,would it just keep going up and up ?. I don't want baliffs or anything like that.Would they be likely to take us to court to enforce it .I parked there yesterday and I am now worried I might have overstayed then by a little while.

If you ignore it then they will spam you. 3 or 4 letters saying how they are going to give your goldfish fin rot. Then they'll tell you they've passed it to a 'debt' collection agency. They are powerless too. They will send you 3 or 4 letters threatening to flush the goldfish down the toilet. At this point they will probably offer a discount to pay up because they are recommending legal action. They'll probably claim you owe them £150-£200 now.

After all of that they'll probably just go away. In the unlikely event they attempt court then come back. No bailiff's will be turning up.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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lorelei gilmore
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:20
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It sounds a bit worrying if they say I can get taken to court.It would be easier to pay but why should I give them my money if I really don't have to .They are counting on me just paying up.Would they be likely to take me to court ?.My husband has health problems so I really don't need all the worry.
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Jlc
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:34
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QUOTE (lorelei gilmore @ Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:20) *
It would be easier to pay but why should I give them my money if I really don't have to .They are counting on me just paying up.

That's how they operate... The vast majority (unnecessarily) pay up.

QUOTE (lorelei gilmore @ Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:20) *
Would they be likely to take me to court ?

No - but we can't 100% guarantee they won't. The percentage of cases attempted are almost non-existent. The amount of cases lost with a proper defence even less.

The Protection of Freedom's Act did not 'legalise' private parking. Under certain strict conditions they can pursue the registered keeper (instead of the driver) - although they often attempt to twist it to strengthen their position.

Can you give us some context of the overstay? I presume it's a shopping centre of similar?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:34


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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lorelei gilmore
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:51
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Yes it was a shopping centre car park on private land.You get 3 hours free parking but there is no option to pay for extra time.We parked in a disabled bay with a blue badge.They photgraphed us entering and leaving the car park.We were only 22 minutes over the time,should I write and say about my husband taking a long time to walk back there,also I had my son with me who has got special needs.Would they be more likely to pursue me if I enter into any correspondence with them ?.

This post has been edited by lorelei gilmore: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:53
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kommando
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 11:58
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You have a valid reason for overstaying which is having a disabled persons with you, you can counter with a discrimination claim, Schoolrunmum has all the details which you could use in an appeal, this would be enough to scare them off. Just using APNR without taking into account disabled is their problem not yours if this is what they did.
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Jlc
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 12:18
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Aha, definitely an Equality Act angle. (Reasonable adjustments for the disabled)

As noted the ANPR discriminates. Depends on how you want to play it - SchoolRunMum is a specialist here... She'll be along later for sure.

But, I would vote for a reasonable initial 'appeal'. That is state that a blue badge holder is involved and their mobility is restricted and note that reasonable adjustments have not been made. Don't 'admit' anything that can be twisted against you. Provide a copy of the badge as 'evidence'.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Jlc
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 13:41
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Have a look at this thread - some good background reading...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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chesterton
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 14:43
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 10:49) *
There's an interesting link off their website if the PCN begins with '0580'.

Links across to an anonymous payment portal.


Had a look at the "What is a PCN" link on that page. Saw the following which seems a bit dubious:

I Have A Disabled Badge?
Whilst we are under no obligation to allow additional or any free parking in the private area we monitor, we often do make exceptions for Disabled Badge holders. Please forward a copy of the Disabled badge in your name together with a letter explaining the circumstances, for our consideration.
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The Slithy Tove
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 14:49
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QUOTE (chesterton @ Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 14:43) *
I Have A Disabled Badge?
Whilst we are under no obligation to allow additional or any free parking in the private area we monitor, we often do make exceptions for Disabled Badge holders. Please forward a copy of the Disabled badge in your name together with a letter explaining the circumstances, for our consideration.

Well, that is in clear breach of the Equalities Act, which says they MUST make reasonable adjustments for disabled people.
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Jlc
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 15:09
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Site registered to:

Registrant:
Ranger Services Ltd
c/o On-Line Marketing & Sales Ltd t/a Swift Internet

SPRING PARKING LTD
220 THE VALE
GOLDERS GREEN
LONDON
UNITED KINGDOM
NW11 8SR
Company No. 07513006

RANGER SERVICES LIMITED
35 BALLARDS LANE
LONDON
N3 1XW
Company No. 04797172

About 3 miles apart...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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lorelei gilmore
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 15:31
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I think I am going to send an appeal in,with a copy of the Blue badge.I will make sure I don't admit anything.

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Gan
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 15:58
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Hang fire until Schoolrunmum has picked this up

You don't want a weak "I was only 22 minutes late and here's the blue badge" appeal that they can "consider"

You need to slam them with something more like "You WILL cancel it or your company, and the one that employed you will find themselves reported for a breach of the Equality Act"
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Jlc
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 16:17
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QUOTE (lorelei gilmore @ Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 15:31) *
I think I am going to send an appeal in,with a copy of the Blue badge.I will make sure I don't admit anything.

Yes, wait 24 hours for more feedback on here.

I think the reasonable but assertive approach is worthwhile here, others might prefer to go straight for the Letter Before Action counter claim...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Basfordlad
post Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 17:01
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You are taking this bunch far to seriously.

As others have said wait until schoolrunmum comes on, the is no rush you owe them nothing.



This post has been edited by Basfordlad: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 - 17:03
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