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Highview Parking - Faulty Machine?
SRGills1983
post Mon, 1 Nov 2021 - 15:43
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Hi, I'd appreciate some help here.

I recently received a PCN from Highview Parking saying I hadn't paid for parking in one of the car parks they manage. Funny, thing is, I did pay and showed them a banking transaction proving so much. I thought that would be the end of the matter.

However, they wrote back saying that they had no record of the transaction and so the PCN stood. I lodged an appeal with POPLA but that got declined. I'm at a loss for words.

When I punched my licence details into the machine I got as far as the first two digits before the machine automatically jumped to the payment fee. That's the only explanation I can give as to why my licence details weren't captured by the machine.

I must have done something right as the machine generated a fee, which I duly paid!

Now Highview Parking want £90 from me and I don't think I've done anything wrong. Has this sort of thing happened to anyone else?
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post Mon, 1 Nov 2021 - 15:43
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ostell
post Mon, 1 Nov 2021 - 18:51
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As said in your thread elsewhere it was possible that someone had partially entered their VRM and then walked away and the digits you entered completed the entry and so on.

Wait to see where they take it
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Dave65
post Mon, 1 Nov 2021 - 22:25
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Did the machine print out a ticket?
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SRGills1983
post Tue, 2 Nov 2021 - 09:37
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Dave,

The machine didn't issue a ticket. You pay on exiting and don't need to display a ticket.
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Dave65
post Tue, 2 Nov 2021 - 10:21
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What details does your bank statement give ie; Payment to Smart, date, time?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 2 Nov 2021 - 11:15
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So you stuck the first two characters of your VRM in , and it then did what - pulled up your whole VRM on screen, along with a payment amount?
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SRGills1983
post Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 12:52
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QUOTE (Dave65 @ Tue, 2 Nov 2021 - 10:21) *
What details does your bank statement give ie; Payment to Smart, date, time?


That's right. It shows I made a payment of £1.20 to Highview Parking on the date that I parked in the car park they manage.

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 2 Nov 2021 - 11:15) *
So you stuck the first two characters of your VRM in , and it then did what - pulled up your whole VRM on screen, along with a payment amount?


From memory, I typed the first two digits and then the screen changed to a fee screen showing amount to pay as £1.20. I then paid accordingly.

I thought at the time that I must have the only car in the car park with those first two digits and that's why it found my details.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 13:35
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Next time yiu park there, take a video of the entire payment process. All of it. Then show us it. You're guessing right now, and that doesn't help.
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SRGills1983
post Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 15:38
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 13:35) *
Next time yiu park there, take a video of the entire payment process. All of it. Then show us it. You're guessing right now, and that doesn't help.


I've checked the payment and it went through to Reef London Limited. But the car park is managed by Highview Parking. And the PCN came from Nexus Group.

Are these one and the same business?

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 13:35) *
Next time yiu park there, take a video of the entire payment process. All of it. Then show us it. You're guessing right now, and that doesn't help.


POPLA rejected my appeal because they are of the opinion that I made a Major Keying Error:

B) Major Keying Errors
Examples of a major keying error could include:
• Motorist entered their spouse’s car registration
• Motorist entered something completely unrelated to
their registration
• Motorist made multiple keying errors (beyond one
character being entered incorrectly)
• Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM,
for example the first three digits
In these instances we would expect that such errors
are dealt with appropriately at the first appeal stage,
especially if it can be proven that the motorist has paid
for the parking event or that the motorist attempted to
enter their VRM or were a legitimate user of the car park
(eg a hospital patient or a patron of a restaurant).
It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances,
the operator will have incurred charges including but
not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs
therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to
recover some of these costs by making a modest charge
to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day
period from when the keying error was identified before
reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal.

However, checking through the list of VRM's logged by the car park on that day there's nothing even remotely like my Licence Plate. I didn't make a Major Keying Error!

I guess above all things, I'd like to know if the machine will allow drivers to enter an incorrect VRM and then pay a fee?

I somehow ended up paying £1.20 when my stay was only 45 minutes (therefore I should have only paid £1).

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DWMB2
post Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 15:41
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QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 15:38) *
I've checked the payment and it went through to Reef London Limited. But the car park is managed by Highview Parking. And the PCN came from Nexus Group.

Reef will be the people who own the car park. Highview Parking manage the car park on behalf of them. Highview is part of Group Nexus.


--------------------
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SRGills1983
post Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 16:06
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QUOTE (DWMB2 @ Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 15:41) *
QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 15:38) *
I've checked the payment and it went through to Reef London Limited. But the car park is managed by Highview Parking. And the PCN came from Nexus Group.

Reef will be the people who own the car park. Highview Parking manage the car park on behalf of them. Highview is part of Group Nexus.


Ah, that explains it. Thank you!

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SRGills1983
post Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 16:24
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QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 15:38) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 13:35) *
Next time yiu park there, take a video of the entire payment process. All of it. Then show us it. You're guessing right now, and that doesn't help.


I've checked the payment and it went through to Reef London Limited. But the car park is managed by Highview Parking. And the PCN came from Nexus Group.

Are these one and the same business?

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 13:35) *
Next time yiu park there, take a video of the entire payment process. All of it. Then show us it. You're guessing right now, and that doesn't help.


POPLA rejected my appeal because they are of the opinion that I made a Major Keying Error:

B) Major Keying Errors
Examples of a major keying error could include:
• Motorist entered their spouse’s car registration
• Motorist entered something completely unrelated to
their registration
• Motorist made multiple keying errors (beyond one
character being entered incorrectly)
• Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM,
for example the first three digits
In these instances we would expect that such errors
are dealt with appropriately at the first appeal stage,
especially if it can be proven that the motorist has paid
for the parking event or that the motorist attempted to
enter their VRM or were a legitimate user of the car park
(eg a hospital patient or a patron of a restaurant).
It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances,
the operator will have incurred charges including but
not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs
therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to
recover some of these costs by making a modest charge
to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day
period from when the keying error was identified before
reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal.

However, checking through the list of VRM's logged by the car park on that day there's nothing even remotely like my Licence Plate. I didn't make a Major Keying Error!

I guess above all things, I'd like to know if the machine will allow drivers to enter an incorrect VRM and then pay a fee?

I somehow ended up paying £1.20 when my stay was only 45 minutes (therefore I should have only paid £1).



It looks like this has happened to other people before me:

https://www.tripadvisor.co.nz/ShowUserRevie...nt_England.html



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Jlc
post Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 16:42
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It does happen - here.

Unfortunately, parking companies never believe you. The outcome may look like a 'major keying error' but it's clearly the meter's fault rather than the motorist.

Did they ever offer £20 to close it? If POPLA feels this should be the case then write to them an offer the £20 to close the matter. Of course, they'll reject that but puts you in a much stronger position should they ever raise a claim.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SRGills1983
post Tue, 9 Nov 2021 - 09:21
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 16:42) *
It does happen - here.

Unfortunately, parking companies never believe you. The outcome may look like a 'major keying error' but it's clearly the meter's fault rather than the motorist.

Did they ever offer £20 to close it? If POPLA feels this should be the case then write to them an offer the £20 to close the matter. Of course, they'll reject that but puts you in a much stronger position should they ever raise a claim.


Highview Parking rejected my initial request to have the ticket cancelled. They offered to reduce the fee down to £20 but didn't explain where this fee came from. Instead, they just said it would cover their "administrative costs". At the time, I thought this was still outrageous - I've done nothing wrong! - and so I lodged an appeal with POPLA.

POPLA assumed that I had either made a Minor or Major Keying Error and as a result felt that Highview's position of reducing the fee to £20 was fair. POPLA completely ignored my points relating to no evidence provided by Highview that the error was mine. Had they provided evidence of a Minor or Major Keying Error then I would happily have paid the PCN.

After all this I wrote to Highview saying I didn't want this hanging over my head. And that even though I've done nothing wrong I was prepared to pay £18.80 (£20 minus the £1.20 I've already paid them) for this to be closed.

They rejected that and said I now owed them £90.

It seems that other drivers have suffered the same experience. I can't fathom how the presumption of fault or error lies with me without any evidence to back this up. Furthermore, I've acted in good faith at all times.

Surely a court would find in my favour?
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SRGills1983
post Tue, 9 Nov 2021 - 09:42
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QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Tue, 9 Nov 2021 - 09:21) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 16:42) *
It does happen - here.

Unfortunately, parking companies never believe you. The outcome may look like a 'major keying error' but it's clearly the meter's fault rather than the motorist.

Did they ever offer £20 to close it? If POPLA feels this should be the case then write to them an offer the £20 to close the matter. Of course, they'll reject that but puts you in a much stronger position should they ever raise a claim.


Highview Parking rejected my initial request to have the ticket cancelled. They offered to reduce the fee down to £20 but didn't explain where this fee came from. Instead, they just said it would cover their "administrative costs". At the time, I thought this was still outrageous - I've done nothing wrong! - and so I lodged an appeal with POPLA.

POPLA assumed that I had either made a Minor or Major Keying Error and as a result felt that Highview's position of reducing the fee to £20 was fair. POPLA completely ignored my points relating to no evidence provided by Highview that the error was mine. Had they provided evidence of a Minor or Major Keying Error then I would happily have paid the PCN.

After all this I wrote to Highview saying I didn't want this hanging over my head. And that even though I've done nothing wrong I was prepared to pay £18.80 (£20 minus the £1.20 I've already paid them) for this to be closed.

They rejected that and said I now owed them £90.

It seems that other drivers have suffered the same experience. I can't fathom how the presumption of fault or error lies with me without any evidence to back this up. Furthermore, I've acted in good faith at all times.

Surely a court would find in my favour?



Looking at this case - http://nebula.wsimg.com/bfcdd95c68b82bcc6b...p;alloworigin=1

There's lots of parallels with my experience. Slight difference is that the machine I used doesn't produce a printed ticket. The machine I used requires the driver to pay at the end of their stay not before it.

Similarities in that in both cases the driver inputted details that weren't reflected or logged by the machine.

I would hope that the ruling would be the same.



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Jlc
post Tue, 9 Nov 2021 - 10:29
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QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Tue, 9 Nov 2021 - 09:21) *
After all this I wrote to Highview saying I didn't want this hanging over my head. And that even though I've done nothing wrong I was prepared to pay £18.80 (£20 minus the £1.20 I've already paid them) for this to be closed.

They rejected that and said I now owed them £90.

It seems that other drivers have suffered the same experience. I can't fathom how the presumption of fault or error lies with me without any evidence to back this up. Furthermore, I've acted in good faith at all times.

Surely a court would find in my favour?

You've done all that is reasonable. There's no guarantees you'd win at court but you have a better than evens chance.

They sometimes dabble with court claims but aren't the most litigious. If you want, tell them why the £90 is not owed and why they would lose at court. After that ignore them and their debt collectors unless you get a Letter Before Claim. There's also an argument that if you deny the debt then there's no justification for them to send it to 'debt' collection and play the game of adding random charges (not actually incurred).

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 - 10:29


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SRGills1983
post Tue, 9 Nov 2021 - 10:44
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 9 Nov 2021 - 10:29) *
QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Tue, 9 Nov 2021 - 09:21) *
After all this I wrote to Highview saying I didn't want this hanging over my head. And that even though I've done nothing wrong I was prepared to pay £18.80 (£20 minus the £1.20 I've already paid them) for this to be closed.

They rejected that and said I now owed them £90.

It seems that other drivers have suffered the same experience. I can't fathom how the presumption of fault or error lies with me without any evidence to back this up. Furthermore, I've acted in good faith at all times.

Surely a court would find in my favour?

You've done all that is reasonable. There's no guarantees you'd win at court but you have a better than evens chance.

They sometimes dabble with court claims but aren't the most litigious. If you want, tell them why the £90 is not owed and why they would lose at court. After that ignore them and their debt collectors unless you get a Letter Before Claim. There's also an argument that if you deny the debt then there's no justification for them to send it to 'debt' collection and play the game of adding random charges (not actually incurred).


Thank you. I'll see what action they take. If they choose to proceed then I think it makes sense to draw their attention to the precedent set in numerous other court cases that indicate their claim would be dismissed. Will keep everyone posted!

Can't thank you all enough for helping me with this.

I've done quite a bit of internet sleuthing to see if other people have gone through the same thing and sadly it seems that a fair few people have - even in the same car park! - and have been bullied and intimidated into paying money they shouldn't.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 9 Nov 2021 - 17:05
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It's NIT precedent. That has a specific meaning. County court doesn't set precedent.


As said you have better than evens chances, but you need your eyes open on this. Defending has no gtee of success if it gets to a hearing, and will take you time.
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SRGills1983
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:15
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Evening all. As expected, I have received a letter from Highview Parking informing me that the charge now stands at £130.

I have drafted a letter in response, which I would appreciate your thoughts on:



Dear Sir,
Thank you for your letter dated November 10 2021. I reject your £130 charge and in fact any charge in this case. I am not indebted to you at all.
Following advice given to me by my legal representative, I note your intention to escalate this case in due course but would strongly advise you against doing so for the following reasons.

1. In the rational provided by the POPLA assessor in rejecting my appeal, they refer to British Parking Association (BPA) code of practice section 17, which outlines general procedure for dealing with Major and Minor keying errors. However, in this instance, Highview Parking has been unable to provide any evidence at all that I was responsible for a Major or Minor keying error. As I have previously stated, had Highview Parking been able to produce this evidence I would have happily complied with the guidance laid out by the BPA in section 17 of its code of practice.

2. The fault lies with a Machine Error. I acted in good faith at all times. I followed the instructions given by the machine and paid the amount instructed on the screen. I was unable to enter my full licence registration details but this was not for want of trying on my part.

3. There are numerous recent examples of court cases that mirror the circumstances of this case, so much so that they are on surface level identical:
• The driver used the payment machine
• The driver acted in good faith, attempted to the best of their ability to comply with the instructions laid out by the ticket machine and was not responsible for either a Minor or Major keying error
• A fee was reached and subsequently paid
• No evidence of a Minor or Major keying error made by the driver was produced by the complainant
• A Machine error was found to be the most likely cause of the lack of an accurate record of the vehicle registration number being recorded
In all of these cases, the complainant’s case was dismissed. In some cases, legal costs and additional costs were awarded to the defendant.

4. I have spoken with other drivers that have received PCNs from Highview Parking in exactly the same circumstances. In all of these cases, they insist that they were not responsible for a Minor or Major keying error. These drivers, who I have no connection with other than experiencing the same parking misfortune as I am currently experiencing, are willing to provide written testimony that will support my case. I am sure that there are many more drivers out there who can and are willing to provide further evidence that would support my case. I am sure that I will find them with ease.

5. I am prepared to use Freedom of Information Request powers to further investigate the pursuit of speculative charges for parking cases such as mine. How many other drivers have been scared of intimidated into paying baseless charges for errors they had not made? I would be very interested to find out.

I could go on. In summary, I will not be bullied into paying a charge for an error I am not responsible for. I am willing to fight against this baseless charge for as long as it takes for it to be dropped. Should that require me to attend court, I would welcome that opportunity and would instruct my legal representative to act on my behalf as they see fit.





Any good?

This post has been edited by SRGills1983: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:16
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DWMB2
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:39
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It's unlikely to make much difference - now that you have exhausted the appeal routes then you could simply wait to see if they commence legal action.
I assume your intention with the letter is to scare them off, but I'm not entirely convinced it would do an effective job of that. You make quite a few claims, are you confident you can back them all up with sufficient substance?

QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:15) *
Following advice given to me by my legal representative

Have you actually hired a legal representative? If so, they're likely to cost far more than the actual parking charge if it ends up in court. If not, don't falsely claim that you have.

QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:15) *
3. There are numerous recent examples of court cases that mirror the circumstances of this case, so much so that they are on surface level identical:
In all of these cases, the complainant’s case was dismissed. In some cases, legal costs and additional costs were awarded to the defendant.

Which cases? Make clear which ones you are referring to, including dates and reference numbers.

QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:15) *
4. I have spoken with other drivers that have received PCNs from Highview Parking in exactly the same circumstances. These drivers, who I have no connection with other than experiencing the same parking misfortune as I am currently experiencing, are willing to provide written testimony that will support my case.

Is this true?

QUOTE (SRGills1983 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:15) *
5. I am prepared to use Freedom of Information Request powers to further investigate

How? The Freedom of Information Act covers public authorities, so Highview wouldn't be required to respond to an FOI request.


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