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SiP Letter before claim
janeta33
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 16:31
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Hi,

I've received a letter before claim from SIP regarding a PCN i received despite sending them proof I purchased a parking ticket on every correspondence I've had with them. They seem to ignore this fact and continue to chase for money! Anyway, I've now received the below and just wondering on how to reply if I should at all. Thanks


[attachment=59116:Ticket.jpg]

[attachment=59117:pass.jpg]

[attachment=59118:Letter.jpg]
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post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 16:31
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 17:43
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You just need to reply asking for all their evidence, all photos taken, and tell them:

- to consider this a reply to their LBC and a SAR, and as such data processing must be placed on hold whilst the SAR information is supplied and for a period afterwards to enable the consumer data subject to read and consider the SAR documents and photos, including all pictures taken of the car and the signage that day.

- to explain further, why they think they can add a made up £60 in alleged 'losses/damages' to an already inflated parking charge of £100, when this is the exact opposite of how the Beavis case was pleaded, and indeed the Supreme Court Judges remarked that:

(a) ParkingEye could not have reclaimed more than the £85 because that was already inflated to more than cover the VERY minimal costs of a parking ANPR/automated letters model, and

(b) ParkingEye could not have reclaimed losses or damages such as those they have set out to try to excuse the false £60 add-ons, because ParkingEye were not in possession of the land and lost nothing, and

© ParkingEye could not have raised a charge merely to punish a driver, and it seems SIP are trying to punish a paying driver, and have not explained why, and

(d) ParkingEye's charging method was 'complex' and 'unique' and only related to a free car park/retail, not to a PDT machine car park where a driver has already paid. Indeed the Judges in Beavis remarked that the penalty rule would still apply to a standard contract like this, where there is a quantifiable hourly tariff, and any huge charge would thus fall foul by way of being unconscionable, punitive and not propped up by any legitimate interest/commercial justification.

Thus, (finish by telling them) the Beavis case is fully distinguished and they have no cause of action against a driver they KNEW paid and displayed, and the most they could pursue would be the small tariff if they had good reason to believe it was not paid. Since they have no such tenuous excuse, their proposed claim is without merit but they MUST still refer your SAR request to their Data Protection Officer and respond, and put all data processing on hold.

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janeta33
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 19:33
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thanks SchoolRunMum, very helpful reply. Will respond to them as advised.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 26 Oct 2018 - 08:37
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First class, free proof of posting. NOT signed for, NOT second class. Exactly as weve said.
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janeta33
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 16:51
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So followed the advice on here and responded to SIP, sent my letter first class and got proof of postage. I got the below response today. Along with this I got various other photos of my car from different angles (can upload if needed). Is there anything else I can do or is this it? It's a very frustrating as I bought a ticket and have provided this to them.

[attachment=59528:SIP_Letter1.jpg]
[attachment=59529:SIP_Letter2.jpg]
[attachment=59530:PIC.jpg]
[attachment=59531:NTK.jpg]
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:18
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Why do you think your time is up just because they replied, when they HAD to reply...and you knew they would reply...and you asked for these photos?

Nothing has changed. In almost every thread here, these cases are win by defending them at court, with proper preparation and knowing the arguments. You want them to sue because there is no risk for you as long as you don't ignore a claim (and you won't) and because that stage is where the scam ends.

Even people who lose, pay less than is being demanded at these stupid posturing stages and/or on the Claim form, as long as they prepare well and realise to argue about the added 'damages' that do not exist.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:20
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ostell
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 09:04
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I cannot see where you have mentioned a hire car before.

Has the driver been identified? yes or no

Did you get additional; documents when you received that Notice to Hirer? Such as copy of the hire agreement, copy of the PCN to the hire company/
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janeta33
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 14:03
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Thanks both.

SchoolRunMum, you're right. I think I just panicked a little and over thought their reply.

It's a lease car so I assume Audi forwarded them my details but I haven't identified the driver.

No I didn't get they haven't sent me the PCN they sent to the hire company. I'll double check again when I get home, but almost certain it wasn't there. All I got was the a bunch of photos of my car, 2 reminders and the letter before claim. I also requested the contract from the land owner (i didn't think I would get this) and they haven't sent that either.
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janeta33
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 17:02
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Just went through the paperwork again and definitely no notice to Audi (who are the lease company), just the below which they sent me.

[attachment=59542:30710579...00_n__1_.jpg]
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ostell
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 17:39
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Normally, if it hadn't got to letter before claim stage then I would have suggested an appeal in the form:

QUOTE
I am the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper..

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.


However it is too late for that now but you can send a strongly worded document to SIP pointing out that they have failed to comply with the requirements of POFA to be able to hold you liable. and so you expect them to withdraw from the case that they can only lose.

You may care to go through paragraph 14 of POFA and point out the other failures to them, for example 14 (5) © is not there.

This post has been edited by ostell: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 17:42
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janeta33
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 20:57
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Thanks ostell, will give it a go send a letter as adviced and see what happens.
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janeta33
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 17:45
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So I replied to SiP and got the attached back. Is it right that they have refused to send me the original notice to keeper? I may be wrong but I suspect they are refusing to share as it was out of time. They've sent VWFS response but there isn't a date on this. Any ideas on what to do next? Thanks

[attachment=60298:20181219_173651.jpg]
[attachment=60297:20181219_173608.jpg]

This post has been edited by janeta33: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 23:07
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ostell
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 17:59
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What exactly did you send them to elicit that response?

You could remind them again that they have to comply with POFA and part of that compliance, which they failed to do, was to provide a copy of that original PCN to you, the hirer.

This post has been edited by ostell: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 18:06
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janeta33
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 18:08
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I've got the letter saved on my work laptop so will post the exact letter tomorrow but I asked why the omitted the original notice to keeper and VWFS response to the NTK out of the documents they sent to my SAR request. I also ask it they could forward me copies of both those documents.
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Redivi
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 18:18
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You've left the claim reference number on one picture and the PCN number on the other
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 08:35
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The original notice to (registered) keeper is only arguably your personal data.
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