PCN 46 |
PCN 46 |
Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:36
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 8 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,215 |
Hi,
Sorry new here so hope this is okay. I have just received a pcn for parking on a clearway on keyworth road Sheffield. I dont really know the area and obviously i need to go over my highway code but as you can see from the pictures from the council website my rear end is within the clearway, do i have any grounds for appeal in this case? Any help would be appreciated thanks. Front of PCN This post has been edited by Seabeast87: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:41 |
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Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:36
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Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:52
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Ask the council for the Traffic Regulation Order that creates the restriction There is every possibility that keyworth road is not restricted but they have placed the signs for convenience
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:54
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,860 Joined: 12 May 2012 Member No.: 54,871 |
That's harsh - Sheffield Council must be seriously hard up!
About the only defence I can see (and it's a faint one) would be de minimis but it's highly unlikely that the Council will accept that, so you'd end up at Adjudication with the full £70 Penalty at risk. See what others have to say. |
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Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 12:35
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#4
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
https://tsrgd.co.uk/documents/traffic-signs-manual
Chapter 3, Art 7 deals with clearway signs. Perhaps the proper one has not been used. I would submit a challenge on three grounds:- 1) De minimis---an infraction that is minimal; 2) The contravention cannot occur until the whole vehicle has passed the prohibition sign; 3) The signage in this cul-de-sac is for a rural clearway not an urban clearway or a red route, ergo it cannot be adequate under the terms of LATOR 1996. For ground 2) this case might be used as evidence:- http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1394055 Mick This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 12:46 |
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Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 14:35
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Ask the council for the Traffic Regulation Order that creates the restriction There is every possibility that keyworth road is not restricted but they have placed the signs for convenience +1, get the TRO. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 12:54
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 8 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,215 |
I have requested the TRO but they have still not sent it me. I will be ringing again Monday to chase this, i appreciate all the above advice.
Thanks |
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Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 18:22
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
The parking enforcement department won't have a clue, you need to contact highways, this seems like the right page: https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/home/travel-tr...way-maintenance
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 19:33
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,155 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
PMB is on the money.
There is NO way that the clearway starts at the signs, it gives pre-warning of the major road ahead. Happens all the time i.e. the less than sharpest tools in the box being posted to the enforcement authority while the traffic authority officers place the signs as near as practicable to the start of the restriction i.e. the approach roads. Carry on. Just think about it. The major road is a clearway and when you turn into the unrestricted side road the prohibition no longer applies. Question? Where could you place the 'clearway ends' sign? On the major road? C'mon, this would mean putting clearway ends and clearway starts signs at every junction! Nonsense. So the signs are AWLAYS placed in the side road so the motorist can see them after they've turned off and before they join. Unfortunately you get untrained officers thinking sign = start/end of restriction. No wonder I left! This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 19:41 |
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Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 18:48
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 8 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,215 |
I have received the TRO and it states under the 24 hour main carriageway clearway that 98. Keyworth Road (i) from its junction with Middlewood Road for a distance of 9 metres westerly.
With this in mind should i proceed with a challenge on the grounds mentioned by Mick as i am in agreement? Thankyou |
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Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 11:24
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
With most of the car being passed the sign and the possibility of the sign being found to be substantially compliant, I don't see an easy win here. By all means send an informal challenge, including a plea for discretion, but I would not risk the discount.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 12:09
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
With most of the car being passed the sign and the possibility of the sign being found to be substantially compliant, I don't see an easy win here. By all means send an informal challenge, including a plea for discretion, but I would not risk the discount. from what you tell us of the TRO then the sign is in exactly the right place That placement avenue is closed. So us the order there may be something in it -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 16:42
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#12
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 8 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,215 |
Should I not risk the discount or should I challenge? I am torn between what to do for this.
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Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 20:33
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Should I not risk the discount or should I challenge? I am torn between what to do for this. The PCN tells you that if you challenge within the 14 day period, they will normally re-offer the discount, so you can make a plea for discretion without running any substantive risk. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 22 Jun 2019 - 06:45
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#14
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 8 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,215 |
Yes but is that likely that they will reoffer the discount? Would someone be kind enough to help me with what to write for the appeal
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Mon, 24 Jun 2019 - 09:53
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Yes but is that likely that they will reoffer the discount? Would someone be kind enough to help me with what to write for the appeal I'm not aware of a single instance where a council has stated it normally re-offers the discount, and it has then not done so. They probably don't give a cast iron guarantee just in case someone send a representation full of expletives, as long as you're reasonable I see no chance of the discount not being re-offered. As you've got nothing else to go on, a representation just needs to say something along the lines of awfully sorry, my bad, promise never to do it again, please exercise discretion to cancel. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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