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Britannia /BW legal, pursuit of pcns
lambrettavega67
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 18:56
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Hi. Looking for advice and a plan of a action relating to various PCNs all from Waitrose in Surbiton for which I have received letters from BW legal

Firstly in respect of two alleged contraventions in February 2016 and May 2016 requesting £40 +£60 costs this appears not to be a letter of claim.

Secondly in respect of 5 more recent contraventions dated later in 2016 and 2017 I have received a letter of claim demanding £260 and a hint of estimated court costs.

In the carpark in question no terms or conditions of any kind have ever been displayed other than a vague sign stating "Customer parking 2 hours free if you stay longer you may be charged £___ "


What is my course of action?
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post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 18:56
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Jlc
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 20:52
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QUOTE (lambrettavega67 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 18:56) *
In the carpark in question no terms or conditions of any kind have ever been displayed other than a vague sign stating "Customer parking 2 hours free if you stay longer you may be charged £___ "

Have you got pictures confirming that? No contract can be formed with such a simple sign.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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lambrettavega67
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 22:01
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 20:52) *
QUOTE (lambrettavega67 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 18:56) *
In the carpark in question no terms or conditions of any kind have ever been displayed other than a vague sign stating "Customer parking 2 hours free if you stay longer you may be charged £___ "

Have you got pictures confirming that? No contract can be formed with such a simple sign.



I can obtain pictures of the current signs. They have been changed (the amount increased to £90) and they have replaced the attendant with a camera system but conditions are still posted nowhere in the car park. What is my course of action?
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Dave65
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 22:25
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Get photos from different angles and position of signs.

You can ask them when the current signs were erected.
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lambrettavega67
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 22:42
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The waitrose car park in Surbiton is a very odd set up. No t and c anywhere in the car park. This may be a deliberate policy of waitrose there is not even the usual tiny text on a 20 foot high stick plot. Just nothing.

More important - what response to the legal firm?
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lambrettavega67
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 07:29
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These are the current signs there is one at the entrance of the shop that supposedly includes t and c prior to February this year there was none. The actual terms and conditions are the tiny writing at the bottom.

This post has been edited by lambrettavega67: Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 07:31
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Ollyfrog
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 10:07
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The signs aren't exactly clear about terms and conditions are they, even now. You can hardly read the terms on entry to the car park.

Also this phrasing: "Or you may receive a parking charge" - what do others think?
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ostell
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 10:37
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No where could I see a clear indication of the charge for any alleged breach of their conditions. Even Beavis said that the amount should be obvious and clear.
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Ollyfrog
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 10:44
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Indeed, it's just in the tiny font on the bottom of the wall sign and nowhere else.
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lambrettavega67
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 22:48
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Indeed but how do I respond to the legal letters? As per an appeal? Ie that nothing is owed as there is no debt because the charges are entirely spurious and none of the signs amount to an invitation to a contract. The previous signs were worse with no t and c sign anywhere just "you may be charged £????
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Dave65
post Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 09:58
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Include a request for details of when these new signs were erected as the previous ones displayed no t & c.
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lambrettavega67
post Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 23:27
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The new signs were from February this year but would be rejected by any popla appeal or court as insufficient and not amounting to an invitation to a contract. The old ones were garbage as there were NO t and c at all. Both fail to comply with any law or even there own trade body code of practice. I Really need help with the legal letters I have received PLEASE?
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Albert Ross
post Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 23:49
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How can we respond, we do not know what you are accused of?
Overstaying.
Misuse of a blue badge or parent and child bay.
Parking outside of a bay.
Or returning within two hours.


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lambrettavega67
post Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 19:12
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Sorry all the alleged contraventions were for staying more than allotted time.
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lambrettavega67
post Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 21:31
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New sign tand c about 5mm in height. Laughable
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ostell
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 10:13
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Have you contacted the store to complain?
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charitynjw
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 09:07
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QUOTE (Ollyfrog @ Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 10:07) *
The signs aren't exactly clear about terms and conditions are they, even now. You can hardly read the terms on entry to the car park.



Consumer Rights Act 2015 s64 (4) & (5)

(4) A term is prominent for the purposes of this section if it is brought to the consumer's attention in such a way that an average consumer would be aware of the term.

(5) In subsection (4) “average consumer” means a consumer who is *reasonably well-informed, observant and circumspect.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/64

*Anyone for Clapham?

This post has been edited by charitynjw: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 09:11
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