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Find Out If I Have Any PCN's, Vehicle Stolen
madandy
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 10:18
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If this is the wrong forum to post this then I apologise but it seems the most logical.

I had my van stolen last week. It cross my mind that it might have received the odd PCN since then (which in itself is not a problem as it is reported stolen).

However, it has crossed my mind that if it has been issued with any tickets by a CEO that may well pinpoint where it is, especially if more than one, if I knew now it could lead on to identifying the culprit by nearby CCTV which could be wiped over by the time I am notified of non-payment weeks later.

Is there any way one can find out if ones vehicle has been issued with a PCN anywhere?

Again apologies if this is the wrong place but this question could just as easily apply to someone who saw a PCN on their windscreen and returns later to drive off and finds it missing.

This post has been edited by madandy: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 10:19
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post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 10:18
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stamfordman
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 10:49
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This should be in the flame pit.

I suppose for a moving traffic PCN you could ask DVLA as they'd be looked up first, and if in a big unitary area like Birmingham the council but I wouldn't waste my time on this.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 10:50
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Earl Purple
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 10:58
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It would be too useful to the public if they actually used images to catch stolen vehicles.

Given they are supposed to be on a database and there is supposed to be ANPR, all the councils that track them could automatically flag anything to the police.

If any are caught though and your vehicle is recovered, the images may be useful to the police to help them convict the thieves. Know their whereabouts at a particular time can be useful information.
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madandy
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:40
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I can assure you that from my experience of nine years ago the authorities are truly lacking.

My number plates were stolen and reported then and duly replaced a few days later******. Two months later I was stopped because they had on their register a report of "me" driving off without paying for fuel a hundred plus miles away in the same week my number plates were stolen.

Given that this was theft and they saw fit to pull me up in my van months later and that the vehicle as described was clearly not mine, one seriously wonders why they did not come round to my home at an earlier point to question/charge/arrest me or have a note on my record showing my plates had been stolen. I could go on about when that van was stolen and recovered andwhen I had a whiplash claim (scam) to deal with how inept the record keeping of registration number events is.

******The day after I had an incident in Soho whereby I returned to the van in the dark to find a CEO there. I quickly jumped in as he rushed round to the left of the van and reversed back as he was attempting to look at my windscreen for some reason. He moved forwards so I reversed further back then slammed into first gear and as I shot off he did not try again but instead I saw the flash of his camera in my mirror.

When I got to my destination to unload I suddenly realised that the flash was to take me registration number but no rear number plate. Weeks later I realised he was trying to take my number from my road tax disc in the dark as there was no front number plate.
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DastardlyDick
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 08:09
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QUOTE (madandy @ Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 12:40) *
I can assure you that from my experience of nine years ago the authorities are truly lacking.

My number plates were stolen and reported then and duly replaced a few days later******. Two months later I was stopped because they had on their register a report of "me" driving off without paying for fuel a hundred plus miles away in the same week my number plates were stolen.

Given that this was theft and they saw fit to pull me up in my van months later and that the vehicle as described was clearly not mine, one seriously wonders why they did not come round to my home at an earlier point to question/charge/arrest me or have a note on my record showing my plates had been stolen. I could go on about when that van was stolen and recovered andwhen I had a whiplash claim (scam) to deal with how inept the record keeping of registration number events is.

******The day after I had an incident in Soho whereby I returned to the van in the dark to find a CEO there. I quickly jumped in as he rushed round to the left of the van and reversed back as he was attempting to look at my windscreen for some reason. He moved forwards so I reversed further back then slammed into first gear and as I shot off he did not try again but instead I saw the flash of his camera in my mirror.

When I got to my destination to unload I suddenly realised that the flash was to take me registration number but no rear number plate. Weeks later I realised he was trying to take my number from my road tax disc in the dark as there was no front number plate.

AFAIK, there is no way of checking for impending PCNs.
When number plates are stolen, the Reg. No. goes onto the ANPR database but as there is no way of knowing which vehicle the stolen ones get put onto, any vehicle bearing those plates gets stopped. Once it's established that it's the Lawful owner driving, they go on their way. No-one came to your house after the theft of petrol as the images would have been checked.
Do you often drive around with no number plates at all?

This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 08:10
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DastardlyDick
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 08:22
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QUOTE (Earl Purple @ Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:58) *
It would be too useful to the public if they actually used images to catch stolen vehicles.

Given they are supposed to be on a database and there is supposed to be ANPR, all the councils that track them could automatically flag anything to the police.

If any are caught though and your vehicle is recovered, the images may be useful to the police to help them convict the thieves. Know their whereabouts at a particular time can be useful information.


Council's have no access to PNC and their access to the DVLA Database is limited. Can you imagine the furore from civil rights groups if they had unfettered access? "Police State" would only be the start of their wailing!
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kommando
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 09:24
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In China on the main motorways there are regular ANPR camera gantries, the taxi driver was asked said they were for tracking vehicle movements. He was speeding by a large margin and weaving in and out of traffic which seemed normal to him and was not worried so it was not being used from traffic offence recording.
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KH_
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 17:19
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There was an interesting, and worrying, thing happened over the weekend that leads me to believe the police can track a vehicle without it necessarily being on the ANPR database as being 'watched'
Worrying in that a relative had gone missing, not the Big Brother aspect.

An elderly relative was due to travel to a town several hundred miles away with a stop at relatives along the way. Left early Saturday and at lunchtime Sunday was missing and uncontactable.
We got the police involved who told us, after a delay of a couple of hours, that the vehicle had been traced to the area of the final destination and, some time later, that the vehicle and driver had been located, both fine and nothing to worry about.
No more details than that.

This would suggest that they have been able to input the reg into their ANPR and monitor backwards for it. I had no idea that was possible, or perhaps they used some other method to 'trace' the vehicle
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southpaw82
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 18:30
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QUOTE (KH_ @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 18:19) *
There was an interesting, and worrying, thing happened over the weekend that leads me to believe the police can track a vehicle without it necessarily being on the ANPR database as being 'watched'
Worrying in that a relative had gone missing, not the Big Brother aspect.

An elderly relative was due to travel to a town several hundred miles away with a stop at relatives along the way. Left early Saturday and at lunchtime Sunday was missing and uncontactable.
We got the police involved who told us, after a delay of a couple of hours, that the vehicle had been traced to the area of the final destination and, some time later, that the vehicle and driver had been located, both fine and nothing to worry about.
No more details than that.

This would suggest that they have been able to input the reg into their ANPR and monitor backwards for it. I had no idea that was possible, or perhaps they used some other method to 'trace' the vehicle

Yes. All vehicles that pass an ANPR camera have their VRM recorded and stored - I don't know how long for. This database is searchable, though searches over a certain period of time required the authority of a superintendent (in one of my forces). This is different to a vehicle being on the watchlist, where an ANPR 'ping' will result in an active alert on the system, rather than the VRM only being passively recorded.


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KH_
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 19:31
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 19:30) *
QUOTE (KH_ @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 18:19) *
There was an interesting, and worrying, thing happened over the weekend that leads me to believe the police can track a vehicle without it necessarily being on the ANPR database as being 'watched'
Worrying in that a relative had gone missing, not the Big Brother aspect.

An elderly relative was due to travel to a town several hundred miles away with a stop at relatives along the way. Left early Saturday and at lunchtime Sunday was missing and uncontactable.
We got the police involved who told us, after a delay of a couple of hours, that the vehicle had been traced to the area of the final destination and, some time later, that the vehicle and driver had been located, both fine and nothing to worry about.
No more details than that.

This would suggest that they have been able to input the reg into their ANPR and monitor backwards for it. I had no idea that was possible, or perhaps they used some other method to 'trace' the vehicle

Yes. All vehicles that pass an ANPR camera have their VRM recorded and stored - I don't know how long for. This database is searchable, though searches over a certain period of time required the authority of a superintendent (in one of my forces). This is different to a vehicle being on the watchlist, where an ANPR 'ping' will result in an active alert on the system, rather than the VRM only being passively recorded.


It's good to know that the system exists, once we do manage to get back in touch I swear I'm telling him to take someone with him next time! smile.gif
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Fredd
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 21:23
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QUOTE (KH_ @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 20:31) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 19:30) *
QUOTE (KH_ @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 18:19) *
There was an interesting, and worrying, thing happened over the weekend that leads me to believe the police can track a vehicle without it necessarily being on the ANPR database as being 'watched'
Worrying in that a relative had gone missing, not the Big Brother aspect.

An elderly relative was due to travel to a town several hundred miles away with a stop at relatives along the way. Left early Saturday and at lunchtime Sunday was missing and uncontactable.
We got the police involved who told us, after a delay of a couple of hours, that the vehicle had been traced to the area of the final destination and, some time later, that the vehicle and driver had been located, both fine and nothing to worry about.
No more details than that.

This would suggest that they have been able to input the reg into their ANPR and monitor backwards for it. I had no idea that was possible, or perhaps they used some other method to 'trace' the vehicle

Yes. All vehicles that pass an ANPR camera have their VRM recorded and stored - I don't know how long for. This database is searchable, though searches over a certain period of time required the authority of a superintendent (in one of my forces). This is different to a vehicle being on the watchlist, where an ANPR 'ping' will result in an active alert on the system, rather than the VRM only being passively recorded.


It's good to know that the system exists, once we do manage to get back in touch I swear I'm telling him to take someone with him next time! smile.gif

I suppose that depends on whether you believe that the police retaining about 20 billion ANPR records per year, constituting every ANPR read for every vehicle using the roads, for 24 months, is either proportionate or excessive state surveillance of the general population.


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DastardlyDick
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 22:33
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QUOTE (KH_ @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 18:19) *
There was an interesting, and worrying, thing happened over the weekend that leads me to believe the police can track a vehicle without it necessarily being on the ANPR database as being 'watched'
Worrying in that a relative had gone missing, not the Big Brother aspect.

An elderly relative was due to travel to a town several hundred miles away with a stop at relatives along the way. Left early Saturday and at lunchtime Sunday was missing and uncontactable.
We got the police involved who told us, after a delay of a couple of hours, that the vehicle had been traced to the area of the final destination and, some time later, that the vehicle and driver had been located, both fine and nothing to worry about.
No more details than that.

This would suggest that they have been able to input the reg into their ANPR and monitor backwards for it. I had no idea that was possible, or perhaps they used some other method to 'trace' the vehicle


It's also highly likely that, given a definite destination, and a VRM, your relative was "traced" using the good old Mk. 1 Human Eyeball in a vehicle bourn Police Officer!
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KH_
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 16:25
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QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 23:33) *
QUOTE (KH_ @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 18:19) *
There was an interesting, and worrying, thing happened over the weekend that leads me to believe the police can track a vehicle without it necessarily being on the ANPR database as being 'watched'
Worrying in that a relative had gone missing, not the Big Brother aspect.

An elderly relative was due to travel to a town several hundred miles away with a stop at relatives along the way. Left early Saturday and at lunchtime Sunday was missing and uncontactable.
We got the police involved who told us, after a delay of a couple of hours, that the vehicle had been traced to the area of the final destination and, some time later, that the vehicle and driver had been located, both fine and nothing to worry about.
No more details than that.

This would suggest that they have been able to input the reg into their ANPR and monitor backwards for it. I had no idea that was possible, or perhaps they used some other method to 'trace' the vehicle


It's also highly likely that, given a definite destination, and a VRM, your relative was "traced" using the good old Mk. 1 Human Eyeball in a vehicle bourn Police Officer!


Well, that's what I thought too, however the tracing the vehicle and locating the vehicle were over an hour apart. Approx two hours from reporting him missing to the vehicle traced (we didn't know the reg number but I'm sure the police could get it) and then over an hour to vehicle located, presumably, that second part, by good old foot on ground copper.
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cp8759
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 11:46
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 19:30) *
Yes. All vehicles that pass an ANPR camera have their VRM recorded and stored - I don't know how long for. This database is searchable, though searches over a certain period of time required the authority of a superintendent (in one of my forces). This is different to a vehicle being on the watchlist, where an ANPR 'ping' will result in an active alert on the system, rather than the VRM only being passively recorded.

The data is stored for three years, all officers have routine access to data recorded over the past 12 months, to retrieve data recorded between 12 months and 3 years ago there must be suspicion of serious criminality (so terrorism, robberies, murder, organised crime etc...) and as you say access must be authorised by a senior officer.


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southpaw82
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 12:41
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I once used the data to show that an individual was in the vicinity of specific bank branches when criminal property was paid into them.


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