Bailifs Enforcement over never received PCNs, Moved house and never received PCNs Options

[iFlip92]

Hello,
I am slightly panicking right now because I am about to go on holiday for a week and just received a Bristow & Sutor Enforcement Process Commenced letter which is due for the 22/3/2019 but I'm back from holiday on 24th. I have no idea what this is for as the letter isn't very detailed. It says "Warrant issued date 25th Jan 2019 in respect of Parking Charge Notice for XXXXXXX" (where Xs are my vehicle reg). Sum outstanding £98 + Compliance stage fee £75 = Total £173.00.

I suspect I received these with regards to some bus lane contraventions when I recently moved to Colchester. However, I have never received any of the PCNs at my Colchester address so I suspect they went to the previous address. What can I do? Please help!

I don't want to pay the bailifs because I don't think I'll ever get my money back after I sort out why the PCNs didn't arrive. To get things straight, if there's any PCNs to be paid, I have full intention of paying them but if I don't know about them then how can I possibly pay?

This post has been edited by iFlip92: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 19:53

[Advertisement]

[Bailiff Advice]

Hello,
I am slightly panicking right now because I am about to go on holiday for a week and just received a Bristow & Sutor Enforcement Process Commenced letter which is due for the 22/3/2019 but I'm back from holiday on 24th. I have no idea what this is for as the letter isn't very detailed. It says "Warrant issued date 25th Jan 2019 in respect of Parking Charge Notice for XXXXXXX" (where Xs are my vehicle reg). Sum outstanding £98 + Compliance stage fee £75 = Total £173.00.

I suspect I received these with regards to some bus lane contraventions when I recently moved to Colchester. However, I have never received any of the PCNs at my Colchester address so I suspect they went to the previous address. What can I do? Please help!

I don't want to pay the bailifs because I don't think I'll ever get my money back after I sort out why the PCNs didn't arrive. To get things straight, if there's any PCNs to be paid, I have full intention of paying them but if I don't know about them then how can I possibly pay?

The letter from B&S does not appear to be a Notice of Enforcement? Does the notice provide any details of the local authority client or the Penalty Charge Notice number (which will start with 2 digits and be followed by 8 numbers)?

Have you updated your V5C (Log Book) since moving? If not, get it done asap.

Bailiff Advice Online

This post has been edited by Bailiff Advice: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 18:08

[iFlip92]

Hello,
Yes it does. It says it is for the Essex County Council and the PCN ESXXXXXXXX.

I have changed my address on my driving licence straight away after moving (April 2018) but not on the V5C until earlier this year. I suspect this is the reason I am getting this Bailif letter now.

Since posting I have gone to the Essex County Council and looked up the ESXXXXXXXX PCN and found it. I can't pay it as it says I need to contact the Parking Office whatever that is. No link or more info about this and can't find it in Contact Us page of the council website either. (plus it has nothing to do with parking?). There was a button for Contacting the council about this penalty so I proceeded to write a message to them explaining the situation. In addition I have written to Bristow Sutor via email for an extension but I won't get answer until Monday.

Having read some topics around here I downloaded PE2 and PE3 and will complete those when I'm back from holiday and send them to TEC. Any advice on what to write to have the case accepted? I really hope I don't have to pay the absurd amount! I now believe they may be others (letters about other contraventions I don't know about) on their way too possibly; slightly paranoid.

This post has been edited by iFlip92: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 20:00

[Neil B]

The letter from B&S does not appear to be a Notice of Enforcement?

Disappeared altogether now?

I have changed my address on my driving licence straight away after moving (April 2018) but not on the V5C until earlier this year.

You haven't mentioned the date of contravention?

[iFlip92]

Unfortunately I don't have time to scan it right now. In the middle of packing for snow holiday which I'm off to in 4 hours.... Contravention was on 22/08/2018, the Notice of Enforcement reads "Warrant issued dated 25/01/2019 in respect of a Penalty Charge Notice for XXXXXXX" ??. I believe there are others. Another is on the same day and another on 25/05/2018 when login into Bristow Sutor website. What can I say? Colchester is a bit of a nightmare until you learn it .... I should think the other letters will arrive soon. It's strange that they started with the latest one first. Working backwards?

This post has been edited by iFlip92: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 22:51

[Neil B]

25/5 one has better potential.

Not much we can do if you're going.

[Incandescent]

Enjoy the skiing ! When you get back come on here again with the full PCN story. In order to revert the process to the original PCNs you need to tell us why you didn't update your V5C at the same time as your driving licence. The only way to revert is to submit an Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration that you didn't receive the original PCN, Two problems with this (1) council can and will oppose stating they sent all docs to the V5C address, and (2) you have to give a statement as to why you think the PCNs were not received. Tardy updating of a V5C is unlikely to get your SD accepted.

[ford poplar]

Changin address on youe DL does not change address of RK on the V5c,which is provided by DVLA.

[iFlip92]

Alright guys. I'm back now.

While I was on holiday Bristow and Sutor sent me a PDF via email with the total amount owed (£754) but only referenced one of the violations (I guess they consolidated them?). Yesterday I went all out and called the TEC about what I should do. They sent me up-to-date Stat Dec statements via email (attached here) and they updated the address on the PCN somehow? So when I originally called the PCN had the previous address on it and now they updated it. Not sure what this entails if I'm honest.

I then called the Essex County Council which then gave me a number for a company called Imperial which is actually the sole company which deals with Essex Bus Lane contraventions and from which Bristow and Sutor buy the unpaid PCNs from. So I called them on 01604 625637 and they've been immensely helpful actually. They managed to put a memo on the PCN for Bristow and Sutor to look at telling them that I have been on holiday and to put the process On Hold. B&S actually came back within a couple of hours and actually put it On Hold for 2 weeks!

I also filled in and completed the PE2 and PE3 that was sent to me and got them witnessed by a solicitor for a £5er each as I couldn't get hold of a County Court on the day. I mentioned that we used the Royal Mail Redirection service and changed the address on my driver licence but never received the PCNs.

Should I mention that the V5 was not updated until 19/12/2018 because I did not know this has to be done? I have read on another topic that the V5 update is treated as a separate DVLA issue anyway and a guy argued his case to the TEC that if there's a fine attached to not updating the V5 then he agrees he should pay that, but that is a separate issue to the PCNs which are issued by the council. More info here at post #9: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=5308666.

This post has been edited by iFlip92: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 11:59

Attached File(s)

 6_OOT_SD_forms__PE3___PE2_.doc ( 97K ) Number of downloads: 42
 ex345_eng.pdf ( 177.48K ) Number of downloads: 79

 

[Neil B]

I'm bemused as to why you've shown us blank PE2 & PE3 + Guidance + Govt info on bailiffs?

Have you filed anything with TEC ?

[iFlip92]

I have. I attached them because they are up to date forms that I have been sent from the TEC and perhaps someone else might make use of them.

[stamfordman]

You mean these forms?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...ion-out-of-time

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...y-charge-notice

[Bailiff Advice]

I also filled in and completed the PE2 and PE3 that was sent to me and got them witnessed by a solicitor for a £5er each as I couldn't get hold of a County Court on the day. I mentioned that we used the Royal Mail Redirection service and changed the address on my driver licence but never received the PCNs.

Should I mention that the V5 was not updated until 19/12/2018 because I did not know this has to be done?

If you have already completed forms PE2 and PE3 and had them witnessed, then unless you had stated on them that the V5C was updated on 19th December, you cannot amend the form to add further information.

Are you able to post up copies of the completed forms (redact personal info first).

Bailiff Advice Online

[Neil B]

I'm wondering if the OP has mistakenly got the impression this is an automated reset process?
Perhaps from the Essex contractor mentioned and/or the claims made in the linked MSE thread.

[iFlip92]

Well, I am hoping it is like a sort of appeal process, where if more evidence is needed they ask me and then I can provide them it. I have attached to the email I sent to the TEC a scan of my driver's licence and my V5C, which I'm not sure where it actually has the date on, but I think it's part of the end bit of the Doc. Ref. No. For example I would expect them to ask to see proof of me using Royal Mail Redirection service (which I still need to look for as I can't remember where I placed this!).

If you have already completed forms PE2 and PE3 and had them witnessed, then unless you had stated on them that the V5C was updated on 19th December, you cannot amend the form to add further information.

To be fair, who's gonna know?

This post has been edited by iFlip92: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 17:22

[Neil B]

If you have already completed forms PE2 and PE3 and had them witnessed, then unless you had stated on them that the V5C was updated on 19th December, you cannot amend the form to add further information.

To be fair, who's gonna know?

But you've just said you sent them?

--
Having been given two weeks space (which is generous and very unusual) perhaps should have optimised your statement first.

Well, I am hoping it is like a sort of appeal process, where if more evidence is needed they ask me and then I can provide them it.

Who asks?

[iFlip92]

If you have already completed forms PE2 and PE3 and had them witnessed, then unless you had stated on them that the V5C was updated on 19th December, you cannot amend the form to add further information.

To be fair, who's gonna know?

But you've just said you sent them?

--
Having been given two weeks space (which is generous and very unusual) perhaps should have optimised your statement first.

Well, I am hoping it is like a sort of appeal process, where if more evidence is needed they ask me and then I can provide them it.

Who asks?

- I only just scanned them and sent them today.

- The person who deals with the received PE2 and PE3 forms I would've thought? Like, they open some kind of case or some such?

This post has been edited by iFlip92: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 - 18:07

[Neil B]

- I only just scanned them and sent them today.

- The person who deals with the received PE2 and PE3 forms I would've thought? Like, they open some kind of case or some such?

Ok, too late now.

Sorry to be harsh but I think we were expecting to advise you on your return.

Never mind and wish you the best out come nevertheless.

[iFlip92]

Hello all,
I would like to say that the Stat. Dec. worked and I have just received a letter from the TEC that one of the penalties has been revoked and reduced to original amount. I just have to do the other 2 now. All under the same circumstance. I don't know why we can't just consolidate them all into one. I am attaching scans of my Statutory Declarations as examples of what is possible to write for it to be accepted.

This post has been edited by iFlip92: Wed, 22 May 2019 - 21:20

Attached thumbnail(s)