Dartcharge - "You did not receive the penalty charge notice", Threads merged x3 Options

[gettingituptodat...]

If a car was registered to my house, but I am not living there, can I still rightfully say that I "You did not receive the penalty charge notice" as per a TE9 Witness Statement or will they say it's up to me to collect mail / keep records up to date?

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[cp8759]

The legal obligation is to register an address with DVLA at which you can be contacted. Failing to have an address at which you can be contacted registered with DVLA is a criminal offence, so no, just saying you weren't around won't help you at all.

However many other issues can, so give us the full facts and we'll devise the best strategy.

[Neil B]

If a car was registered to my house, but I am not living there, can I still rightfully say that I "You did not receive the penalty charge notice" as per a TE9 Witness Statement or will they say it's up to me to collect mail / keep records up to date?

Most importantly, this question has arisen how and, crucially, when?

[gettingituptodat...]

Letter as I am sending to TEC, all hopefully explained below, Thank you NeilB in advance!

I have 10 oustanding fines for both ways (so five trips there and back).

Do I have a leg to stand on?


Receipt number: 1NE3063xx22079647
We'll send confirmation to:
xxxxxxxxxx
Merchant details
PePiTec Ltd



Morning,

I travelled across the Dart Crossing on the xth January 2019, upon arriving at my destination, I attempted to pay for my vehicle but the site would not accept my registration number, coming up as not UK format, I took a photo of this and assumed it was down to the fact that the vehicle had been off the road for almost 20 years?


I visited the website and looked for an email address to send in my screen shot and get my vehicle added that way, I couldn’t see any email address and the “Contact Dart Charge” page had no way of adding a picture so I emailed highways England (as this was the ONLY email address on the site) and I only got an automated response.

I rang up and got the direct email address and sent my details and the screen shot showing my number plate coming up as “registration not UK format” even though it was correct with no spaces.

I sent an email to dart charge and attached a video to show the process and screenshot and had no response.

I was not living at the address the vehicle was registered to, nor have I been living at the address the enforcement letters have come to as I have been staying with my girlfriend and so did not know anymore had come of the times I had driven through the crossing and was awaiting the response from Dart Charge to which I never got.

I spoke to xxxx today at the Dartford Crossing helpline, I had previously spoken to them and he has a record of this, xx added my car successfully and told me to appeal via TEC and to fill out a Witness Statement.


Kind regards

This post has been edited by gettingituptodate: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 22:14

[Incandescent]

Experience of this forum is that DART management are usually very reasonable in dealing with difficult cases like this, where you tried to make payment but their system was incorrectly programmed. As I understand it, it should bring up your make and model of car when you key in the reg number, at which point you accept the information and can then pay.

What I am not certain of is whether the defined cases on the form to submit a WS include your circumstances. Hopefully others will chime in. You must find out what stage the PCNs are all at, and also get your V5 updated, OR ensure all your mail sent to the V5 address is forwarded to you. Enforcement of bus lanes, traffic offences in London, and some parking offences all rely on sending PCNs out based on the V5 address.

Finally, if you are frequently using DART, why not set up an auto-pay account.

[Neil B]

Letter as I am sending to TEC,

A letter?

Thank you NeilB in advance!

I haven't given any advice and you haven't answered me.

I spoke to xxxx today at the Dartford Crossing helpline, I had previously spoken to them and he has a record of this, xx added my car successfully and told me to appeal via TEC and to fill out a Witness Statement.

No, they will not have said that; they will have suggested you file 'out of time' requests.

Morning,

I travelled across the Dart Crossing on the xth January 2019, upon arriving at my destination, I attempted to pay for my vehicle but the site would not accept my registration number, coming up as not UK format, I took a photo of this and assumed it was down to the fact that the vehicle had been off the road for almost 20 years?


I visited the website and looked for an email address to send in my screen shot and get my vehicle added that way, I couldn’t see any email address and the “Contact Dart Charge” page had no way of adding a picture so I emailed highways England (as this was the ONLY email address on the site) and I only got an automated response.

I rang up and got the direct email address and sent my details and the screen shot showing my number plate coming up as “registration not UK format” even though it was correct with no spaces.

I sent an email to dart charge and attached a video to show the process and screenshot and had no response.

None of that is anything to do with TEC

[gettingituptodat...]

Thank you for your response,

By letter I meant email I shall send to TEC, do you mean they just want the forms and don't care about the story?

Do I just need to do out of time requests? And if so what reason should I give? Because I had had no response from Dart Charge?


Many thanks in advance

[Neil B]

Thank you for your response,

By letter I meant email I shall send to TEC, do you mean they just want the forms and don't care about the story?

Do I just need to do out of time requests? And if so what reason should I give? Because I had had no response from Dart Charge?

From our side, we're just guessing you situation. You haven't mentioned any dates?
You've mentioned enforcement agents?

I think I know where you're at with this but can't advise until sure.

So -- you're not at RK address -- right? So you didn't receive PCNs or other notices --- is this right?

[gettingituptodat...]

Yes I wasn't at the RK address as split up with the girlfriend although I own the house, yes it got the the bailiff stage and the first I knew was when I moved back in and saw all the letters.

Maybe this can be a two pronged attack as in firstly I tried to make payment and contacted them, and this I can prove from the emails I sent and the automated response from Highways England.

The problem is, I continued to use the crossing multiple times but I was waiting for them to get back to me and felt they would see sense, add my car and then allow me to pay the original amounts, this is what I still hope for.

Thank you for helping me

[gettingituptodat...]

I have received an email from the TEC with forms TE7 and TE9 to complete in DOC format however, I guess I use the Dart specific ones?

Anyone here that can check them out for me?

I don't want to fill them in wrong and not get another chance.

I am more than happy to pay / donate? (more) and thank you in advance for your help.

[gettingituptodat...]

….and the car was registered in my Father's address, I did not get the original fines from Dart Charge, only became aware of the fines once the bailiffs sent fines to my house which they must have found out somehow? Electoral role, social media?

[Incandescent]

Bailiffs livelihood depends on them being diligent and proactive in finding debtors, ANPR is used as is enquiries of neighbours etc.

I am somewhat surprised that mail addressed to you was not passed on by your father. Lets hope your OOT declarations are accepted.

[gettingituptodat...]

I have given my reason to ask for permission to file a statement out of time as:

The warrant of control has my previous address of xxxx and the
enforcement agent took an enforcement step without the authority requesting the issue of a new warrant
specifying the new address of the respondent under CPR 75.7(7) enabling me to pay or challenge the
original penalty charge notice.
I attach evidence of my current address in the form of my utility bill

My (Step) Father and I don't have much if any contact.

I first received the bailiffs letters at my house a month ago, I only saw them a few days ago, however the first corresponce I had from the bailiffs at the correct address, was 8th October.

The fact that the car was not registered at an address whereby I can easily receive post is perhaps an offence in itself, but surely this doesn't affect the fact I did not receive the original NTO?

Thank you in advance

[Incandescent]

The fact that the car was not registered at an address whereby I can easily receive post is perhaps an offence in itself, but surely this doesn't affect the fact I did not receive the original NTO?

Unfortunately it does ! This is the biggest reason we see for OOTs being refused. Essentially it is considered you are the architect of your own misfortune.

[gettingituptodat...]

Does the fact that I tried to make payment originally on Dart Charge website and was waiting for a response to my email count? Their form would not accept my reg number.

Should I put this as part of the reason on my TE7?



...although I didn't chase it up, I was waiting for Dart Charge to get back to my emails

[Neil B]

Does the fact that I tried to make payment originally on Dart Charge website and was waiting for a response to my email count? Their form would not accept my reg number.

Should I put this as part of the reason on my TE7?

NO!
Just when it seemed you'd got the gist of what TE7 is you go backwards to this.
It's irrelevant at the moment.

From what we've seen in other cases all Dart want is to keep to process and keep their records in order.
If you submit a clear, tangible reason for why you are having to file a witness statement late they generally
won't object.

But I've read what you've written and can't make head nor tail of it. Don't understand where you were or were not
or how girlfriend and stepdad come into it.
It needs clarity ---- and dates ----- and supporting evidence.

and take out the bit about 'offence'.

What is this?

The warrant of control has my previous address of xxxx and the
enforcement agent took an enforcement step without the authority requesting the issue of a new warrant
specifying the new address of the respondent under CPR 75.7(7) enabling me to pay or challenge the
original penalty charge notice.

What step?

[gettingituptodat...]

Neilb, do you offer advice via phone / pm that I can pay for?

What is my best wording? Does anything about my circumstances constitute a valid reason for an OOT appeal?

No point in the mention of CPR 75.7(7)?

Basically all the Dart Charge fines went to my old address, the first I knew about the fines were when I received bailiff letters at my address.

[Neil B]

Basically all the Dart Charge fines went to my old address, the first I knew about the fines were when I received bailiff letters at my address.

There you go; that's a clear start.

Then --- where had you gone, when, why, was it temporary, etc.

No point in the mention of CPR 75.7(7)?

What "step" were you referring to?

[gettingituptodat...]

The date of the first offence was early Jan 2019, I contacted Dart Charge and had no response.

I hadn't got round to sending the log book off to my new address as I had just bought a house and almost straight away had a break up with my girlfriend and so stayed away for nine months before moving in properly. During this time I had a lot to deal with and didn't know if I was going to keep the property.

My point with bringing up the possible breach of CPR 75.7(7) was that the fines were going to an old address, if the bailiff worked out I lived at a new address, do they not have to reapply for a warrant? And by doing so the original creditor (Dart Charge) have to resend the original fines to me?

[Neil B]

do they not have to reapply for a warrant?

Firstly, you don't know they haven't do you?

And they haven't taken an enforcement "step", i.e. taken anything.