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PCN code 16 - Saracens Match Day - Barnet, PCN while loading outside my own house on match day
auntymarge12
post Tue, 15 Oct 2019 - 12:11
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Hi folks,

First post, so apologies in advance for the shortcomings it will likely have in the first instance - feel free to correct me and I will make necessary adjustments in good time!


On Saturday 12.10.19 I received a PCN code 16 'Parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit where required'.

I was parked on-street, right outside my own house where I also have a private driveway (I didn't pull on because its very tight, and I only use it to stash the car on match days - which are difficult to monitor as I have no interest in the sport and the only indicator is the situated-on-busy-junction sign at the entrance to my street). The on-street parking here is only ever restricted on the occasional 'Match days' for Saracens games. I do not hold a residents permit due to having the driveway.

Signage for my street (380m long, one way only) is two side-by-side parking signs placed on the junction to the busy adjacent road, right next to a quite dangerous blind corner. There are NO repeater signs at any other point along the street.

These two entrance signs have what appears to be a sticker with a date placed on top on the approach to match days. One of the two signs is almost completely obscured by overhanging tree foliage (see photo).

Additionally, the PCN ticket and photos do not allow for an observation time period, which as far as I can tell is necessary in this instance. The ticket says 'observed from 14:55 to: 14:55'. The photos of my vehicle taken by CEO and uploaded to Barnet Council website are timestamped, and range from 14:54 - 14:56 only.

The Civil Enforcement Handbook pg23 states for a code 16 an observation period is necessary, and that loading/unloading is allowed. See also Barnet Council website (https://www.barnet.gov.uk/parking/parking-and-traffic-enforcement/controlled-parking-zones-cpz/saracens-event-day-cpz) which explicitly states loading is allowed:

' Loading and unloading
Loading and unloading will be permitted in all the parking places in the CPZ for up to 40 minutes without the need to display a permit or visitor voucher, provided that the loading and unloading activity is seen to be continuous. This will also apply on any yellow line restriction provided that no loading restrictions are in force
.'

I am therefore hoping I have at least one of these two issues to base an appeal on:

1.I was loading/unloading outside my own house, and the vehicle was only observed by CEO for a maximum period of 3 minutes. I dropped some baggage into the house, and came back 3 mins later to find the ticket and no CEO in sight.

2. The signage is insufficient, as per the photo provided and description. There are only two single side-by-side entry signs at the beginning of the one way street, situated on a busy and dangerous off-road. There are no repeater signs along the length of the street. One of the entry signs is entirely obscured by overhanging tree foliage.


I'd be extremely grateful for input and advise from the pros on here, as this is the second time they have hit me in similar circumstances, and in the same location outside my own home (I only moved here in March, from Belfast where there are very few restrictions, even in the city). Last time I did appeal to the council without doing sufficient research, and appealed on a 'human-to-human' basis (how naive I was!), stating that I had just moved over, I was parked outside my own house, I have my own driveway right next to where the car was parked so clearly was not trying to flaunt any rules or evade payment where it was due, simply I was unaware of 'match day' parking rules as I have no interest in the sport and had just moved into the area.

Thanks in advance!

ps. CEO photos here:
https://ibb.co/QJZ3PKc
https://ibb.co/2qwTp1m
https://ibb.co/1mYSGfy
https://ibb.co/6mc7Gt1

This post has been edited by auntymarge12: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 - 13:56
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post Tue, 15 Oct 2019 - 12:11
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cp8759
post Mon, 28 Oct 2019 - 12:19
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So would I. The tribunals have repeatedly ruled that a refusal letter should enable you to understand why your challenge has been rejected. This sort of pro-forma rejection is a procedural impropriety.


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auntymarge12
post Tue, 29 Oct 2019 - 09:33
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Thanks for the input folks, happy to take it all the way if the general consensus here is that I should have good odds of winning.

I've looked for a thread that explains the process and can't see one - can someone please link me or advise me on how to proceed from here?

From memory, I recall reading on another thread that the next step is to WAIT for the 28 days to expire and the NtO to be issued? Is that right?
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Mr Mustard
post Tue, 29 Oct 2019 - 09:36
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Yes, the council choose the point at which they will issue the Notice to Owner and Barnet can be a bit slow with them. Has to be within 6 months of the alleged contravention date.

Relax is all you can do for now.


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All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 29 Oct 2019 - 09:44
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process:


https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process
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auntymarge12
post Sat, 16 Nov 2019 - 13:41
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Hi again folks,

Update:

I have now received the NtO by post dated 14/11/19.

I intend on making my second stage challenge via email (in the absence of advice to the contrary on here?).

I would be v grateful for any guidance or pointers on how to formulate the challenge letter and any materials I could potentially draw on to support my case.

As it stands, I am working on the basis that I was loading at the time of the alleged contravention, the CEO evidence only indicates a maximum observation of 2 minutes. Further to that, the letter rejecting my initial challenge from Barnet Council (see earlier in thread for full letter) was procedural impropriety on the basis that it was generic, did not directly address the contents of my letter (not even slightly!), and did not help me understand why they allege that a contravention occurred despite my arguing to the contrary.

Thanks in advance team! cool.gif

P.S. if a copy of the NtO is appropriate let me know and Ill post a photo.

P.P.S. as I start to draft my new letter, I am finding myself immediately scratching my head as to what I can write that is in any way different from my initial challenge letter. Of course I will add in a few lines stating how their response to my first challenge was insufficient and amounts to procedural impropriety, but with that exception, is it normal/good practice to simply regurgitate the original submission? My stance hasn't changed.

This post has been edited by auntymarge12: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 - 13:49
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cp8759
post Sat, 16 Nov 2019 - 13:43
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Best advice is to post a draft of your representation on here for review.


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auntymarge12
post Sat, 16 Nov 2019 - 14:28
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Folks,

See draft of letter for challenge round 2. Note - in it I have point 1 and 2, where point 1 is an ad-verbatim copy paste from my initial challenge letter, reiterating that the alleged contravention didnt occur on the basis of loading (and lack of observation to verify this). Then I have simply superglued a point 2 below which breaks down the main points from my first letter, and notes how the Barnet Council response failed to address these in any way.

I have no idea if this is any good, any advice/guidance/flame/critique is more than welcome, I will make revisions based on feedback received. Thanks in advance:

QUOTE
Dear Sir/Madam,

Penalty charge number: AG3******
Car reg: *** ****

I am writing to request withdrawal of the recently issued NtO on the above-named vehicle on Saturday 12/10/19. I contend that this should be withdrawn on two counts:

1. On the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur:

At the time of the alleged contravention, I was in the process of unloading the vehicle in question. I had purchased some used furniture from gumtree (an office chair, assembled; two IKEA desks, disassembled; tools) and was transferring this piece-by-piece into my house (situated adjacent to the site of the alleged contravention).

I understand from the ‘Saracens even day CPZ’ guidelines on the Barnet Council website, ‘Loading and unloading will be permitted in all the parking places in the CPZ for up to 40 minutes without the need to display a permit or visitor voucher, provided that the loading and unloading activity is seen to be continuous.’

Both the PCN ticket issued, and the photographs provided by the CEO indicate that the CEO did not verify whether loading was taking place. The PCN ticket states time observed ’14:55’ to ’14:55’. The photographs uploaded to the council portal are timestamped between 14:54 and 14:56 only.

I read also that the London Councils Civil Enforcement Officers Handbook page 23 (code: 16) acknowledges that loading/unloading is an allowed exemption, and that an observation period should occur.

My property is an upstairs maisonette, so it takes some time to move furniture through a narrow front door and up a staircase, but I was operating as quickly as safely possible given the constraints. Given that I was moving continuously between the house and vehicle every few minutes, I therefore contend that the CEO did not observe for sufficient time to determine whether loading was taking place. Immediately after unloading, I moved the vehicle onto my private driveway to ensure adherence to parking restriction rules. The reason I cannot unload from the driveway is because it is situated at the back of the property and means having to transport the items a much greater distance to reach the house.

2. There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority (Barnet Council):

The letter issued by Barnet Council in response to my initial PCN challenge did not aid me in understanding why my challenge had been rejected. The letter response issued to me was generic, did not directly address the contents, concerns and queries contained within my challenge letter and ultimately did not clarify why my counter argument was deemed invalid or insufficient by the council.

In my initial challenge letter, I contend that no contravention occurred, as I was unloading my vehicle at the time of the PCN issuing. In it I state:

‘I understand from the ‘Saracens even day CPZ’ guidelines on the Barnet Council website, ‘Loading and unloading will be permitted in all the parking places in the CPZ for up to 40 minutes without the need to display a permit or visitor voucher, provided that the loading and unloading activity is seen to be continuous.’
And:

‘I read also that the London Councils Civil Enforcement Officers Handbook page 23 (code: 16) acknowledges that loading/unloading is allowed exemption, and that an observation period should occur.’

From this it is clear that I have examined the available guidance from the council and from the CEO handbook and concluded that loading is acceptable within certain parameters. I raise this issue, but the council letter fails to address this point in any way and fails to explain how my case would not fall within this guidance framework. Further to this point, in my initial challenge letter I also note:

‘Both the PCN ticket issued, and the photographs provided by the CEO indicate that the CEO did not verify whether loading was taking place. The PCN ticket states time observed ’14:55’ to ’14:55’. The photographs uploaded to the council portal are timestamped between 14:54 and 14:56 only.’

It is clear here that I am contending that based on the evidence provided by Barnet Council, no observation period occurred, when according to CEO handbook guidance, it should take place as part of verifying whether a contravention occurred. Again, the response from Barnet Council makes no reference to this point, failing again to clarify to me why they believe a contravention still occurred, in light of these observations indicating to the contrary.

I look forward to your response in due course.

Kind regards,

Chris ******

*my address*
Mill Hill East
London
NW* ***
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stamfordman
post Sat, 16 Nov 2019 - 14:44
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Looks good to me. I would also say up front that you are entitled to a free permit to emphasise that they are going after a resident here. Have you got one yet?
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cp8759
post Sat, 16 Nov 2019 - 19:47
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Minor tweak in the last paragraph: The council is singular (there is no "they"), and you might as well spell it out that you're alleging a procedural impropriety.


QUOTE (auntymarge12 @ Sat, 16 Nov 2019 - 14:28) *
It is clear here that I am contending that based on the evidence provided by Barnet Council, no observation period occurred, when according to CEO handbook guidance, it should take place as part of verifying whether a contravention occurred. Again, the response from Barnet Council makes no reference to this point, failing again to clarify to me why it believes a contravention still occurred, in light of these observations indicating to the contrary.

I put it to you that this demonstrates Barnet Council has failed to properly consider my representations, and this amounts to a procedural impropriety. Therefore even if the council believes the contravention occurred, nonetheless the PCN must be cancelled.

I look forward to your response in due course.

Kind regards,

Chris ******

*my address*
Mill Hill East
London
NW* ***



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auntymarge12
post Wed, 27 Nov 2019 - 11:49
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 16 Nov 2019 - 19:47) *
Minor tweak in the last paragraph: The council is singular (there is no "they"), and you might as well spell it out that you're alleging a procedural impropriety.


QUOTE (auntymarge12 @ Sat, 16 Nov 2019 - 14:28) *
It is clear here that I am contending that based on the evidence provided by Barnet Council, no observation period occurred, when according to CEO handbook guidance, it should take place as part of verifying whether a contravention occurred. Again, the response from Barnet Council makes no reference to this point, failing again to clarify to me why it believes a contravention still occurred, in light of these observations indicating to the contrary.

I put it to you that this demonstrates Barnet Council has failed to properly consider my representations, and this amounts to a procedural impropriety. Therefore even if the council believes the contravention occurred, nonetheless the PCN must be cancelled.

I look forward to your response in due course.

Kind regards,

Chris ******

*my address*
Mill Hill East
London
NW* ***



I made some minor tweaks to the end of the letter in response to your feedback and that from Stamfordman. I can't edit the original letter post so here is the updated verson of the final pgs.

I submitted this via email this morning, will keep post any updates in here as I receive them! Cheers again to all who have chipped in.

QUOTE
It is clear here that I am contending that based on the evidence provided by Barnet Council, no observation period occurred, when according to CEO handbook guidance, it should take place as part of verifying whether a contravention occurred. Again, the response from Barnet Council makes no reference to this point, failing again to clarify to me why it believes a contravention still occurred, in light of these observations indicating to the contrary.

I put it to you that this demonstrates Barnet Council has failed to properly consider my representations, and this amounts to a procedural impropriety. Therefore, even if the council believes the contravention occurred, nonetheless the PCN must be cancelled.

Finally, I would also like to take this opportunity to stress that, as implied (and explicitly stated previously), I am a resident at ** Abercorn Road since March 2019 (the location at which the ticket was issued, and where I was unloading to). I am therefore entitled to a free permit here but had not at this point began applying for one as I only recently became aware that there was a free permit option available. As previously stated, I have a private driveway here, but as there is very poor signage and no means of prior warning/notification reminder for the restricted parking days, it is difficult to keep track of exactly when the restrictions are in place. Moving forwards I will finish applying for the permit and display this on the vehicle once issued.

I look forward to your response in due course.

Kind regards,

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auntymarge12
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 10:12
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AND THE WINNER ISSSS............. THE PEOPLE!

Good work team, success on second challenge. See image for letter confirming cancellation of PCN.

https://ibb.co/6YtvZYR

I'll be sure to make a small donation somewhere to celebrate the win - has anyone that helped me got a preferred charity, or should I donate to the upkeep of the forum? Your call.

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stamfordman
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 10:27
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Good well done. And get that permit!
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Mr Mustard
post Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 10:48
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The forum costs money to host so always a good place to donate to.


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All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at London Tribunals (i.e. within greater London only) & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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