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[NIP Wizard] NIP Received 25 days after alleged offence
Arthurskargill
post Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 17:11
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - May 2019
Date of the NIP: - 23 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 25 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - East Horndon at 1700-2300 on Tuesday, 14 May 2019
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Recorded
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - After attending a classic car pub meet I made an error of judgement and did a large wheel spin exiting the pub car park onto the highway. The NIP Application for name and address of driver turned up 25 days after the offence with a Royal Mail "signed for" bar coded sticker on but was just put through the letter box without being signed for. Attached to the NIP via a paper clip was a typed letter stating that although it had exceeded the 14 days "in certain cases where we are not aware of an offence at the time, the law provides an allowance us to still investigate and prosecute as long as we send the NIPs out promptly within 14 days of the date we became aware of the alleged offence"
I am the registered keeper of the vehicle and the NIP did come direct to me first, as yet i have done nothing but will return my details as requested.
Any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The first NIP to the Registered Keeper must arrive within 14 days unless there is a valid reason why that was not possible, for example a recent change of details.

    This link will take you to the advice provided by the RAC's legal team.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 17:11:42 +0000

This post has been edited by Arthurskargill: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 17:41
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post Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 17:11
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Jlc
post Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 17:59
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What offence is alleged?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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andy_foster
post Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 18:14
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QUOTE (Arthurskargill @ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 18:11) *
Attached to the NIP via a paper clip was a typed letter stating that although it had exceeded the 14 days "in certain cases where we are not aware of an offence at the time, the law provides an allowance us to still investigate and prosecute as long as we send the NIPs out promptly within 14 days of the date we became aware of the alleged offence" [/b]


That is absolutely untrue. I would be tempted to call it a bare faced lie, but I cannot be absolutely certain that the author is not merely monumentally stupid, rather than utterly dishonest (see Hanlon's Razor).

However, some offences do not require a NIP at all, and there is a statutory exemption to the requirement to serve a NIP (where one would otherwise be required) where neither the details of the keeper nor the driver could be obtained in time with reasonable diligence. There is however no "14 days from when we found out about it" rule.


--------------------
Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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Arthurskargill
post Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 18:45
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Thanks for the replies guys, sorry i forgot to mention the alleged offence states "Driving without due care and attention/consideration to other road users"
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Aiden
post Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 22:41
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QUOTE (Arthurskargill @ Mon, 10 Jun 2019 - 19:45) *
Thanks for the replies guys, sorry i forgot to mention the alleged offence states "Driving without due care and attention/consideration to other road users"


The countdown for that offence starts from 14 days of when the alleged offence was to have happen. For you to receive the NOIP as the RK 25 days after the offence is quite rare especially with this cover letter you say you got.

Could you possible attach the cover letter blurring out any sensitive data? That would be interesting to see
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The Rookie
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 03:14
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I'm with AF here, while the statement is patently untrue in what it states, they do have a reasonable diligence get out, whether a late report from a member of the public would be classed within that is a mater for a court to decide. The 'reasonable diligence' was clearly NOT written with a view to accommodating late reports but to have been written to have given the Police some leeway where the address of the RK wasn't readily available for some reason, the statute predating the internet and electronic communications by some time.


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cp8759
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 14:57
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I agree with what's been said, the NIP is out of time and no action can be taken. There is every chance that they're just trying it on, hoping the recipient won't know any better.

You must however reply naming yourself as the driver, failing to do so is a separate and far more serious offence. They will be unable to take any action in relation to the underlying offence as CPS won't run with it even if they try. They might sneakily offer a fixed penalty notice in the hope that you don't look into it and just cough up, but personally I would ignore it.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Jlc
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 15:24
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 15:57) *
They might sneakily offer a fixed penalty notice

The more cynical may believe they'll offer a course in lieu of prosecution?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 15:24


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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andy_foster
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 15:28
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We did not state that no action can be taken. There remains a possibility of a 'reasonable diligence' exemption to the 14 day rule. This would seem to depend on why the NIP was late, and how the police became aware of the incident.

However, regardless of whether the OP can be convicted of the alleged offence, he still needs to comply with the s. 172 requirement. Personally, I would be minded to do so in the form of a bemused letter asking where this "14 days from when we became aware of it" rule comes from, and possibly making reference to s. 5(b) Perjury Act 1911, but that's just me.


--------------------
Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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Ocelot
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 18:21
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Indeed, it is either 14 days from the day following the date of the alleged offence (assuming a written NIP is required), or, if the Police weren't aware of of the incident at the time, the 14 day rule doesn't have to be followed.
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Logician
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 18:44
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QUOTE (Ocelot @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 18:21) *
Indeed, it is either 14 days from the day following the date of the alleged offence (assuming a written NIP is required), or, if the Police weren't aware of of the incident at the time, the 14 day rule doesn't have to be followed.


Really? So, with the old type of speed camera, the police have 14 days from when they process the film - interesting!



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andy_foster
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 18:55
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QUOTE (Ocelot @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 19:21) *
or, if the Police weren't aware of of the incident at the time, the 14 day rule doesn't have to be followed.


Lets say that another driver has done something that has aggrieved me. I decide to report him to the police, but I would prefer that he did not have the benefit of a fresh recollection of events when he becomes aware of the possibility of enforcement action, so I delay reporting it to the police. Does the 14 day rule simply not apply if the police were not made aware of the allegation in time to serve a NIP within the 14 days? What does the legislation actually say?

QUOTE (Logician @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 19:44) *
QUOTE (Ocelot @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 18:21) *
Indeed, it is either 14 days from the day following the date of the alleged offence (assuming a written NIP is required), or, if the Police weren't aware of of the incident at the time, the 14 day rule doesn't have to be followed.


Really? So, with the old type of speed camera, the police have 14 days from when they process the film - interesting!


Where does he say it's 14 days from when they find out?


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Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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Logician
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 20:06
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 18:55) *
Where does he say it's 14 days from when they find out?


He doesn't, I misread it.



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Ocelot
post Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 12:50
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 19:55) *
QUOTE (Ocelot @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 19:21) *
or, if the Police weren't aware of of the incident at the time, the 14 day rule doesn't have to be followed.


Lets say that another driver has done something that has aggrieved me. I decide to report him to the police, but I would prefer that he did not have the benefit of a fresh recollection of events when he becomes aware of the possibility of enforcement action, so I delay reporting it to the police. Does the 14 day rule simply not apply if the police were not made aware of the allegation in time to serve a NIP within the 14 days? What does the legislation actually say?



That's what I inferred from this thread, which seems to suggest so http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...06334&st=20
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