50 Performing a prohibited turn, urgent help please! |
50 Performing a prohibited turn, urgent help please! |
Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 09:18
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 11 Mar 2014 Member No.: 69,378 |
So I relocated out of London back in July and have just received a PCN dates 19th July. They have sent to PCN to my new address and had a look at the PCN and the date of notice is 8th November- but I only received it today... Anyway the PCN is for making a prohibited turn and these are the pictures attached to the letter.
I am not actually sure what I have done wrong? And the pictures don't appear to show that.. But now the fine has gone to £135 as the 14 days has elapsed. Any help would be massively appreciated Thanks! |
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 09:18
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 09:23
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
This is the turn into Richmond Road from Mare Street in Hackney - you'll see we have a lot of these cases and one from July has a good chance fo being appealed.
Post the PCN - there is something odd in your account on times. Is it your car and if so when did you change the address on the V5C doc. Or is it leased. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 09:24 |
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 09:37
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 11 Mar 2014 Member No.: 69,378 |
I'll have a look. Thanks for that.
Here is the PCN. It is my car. Moved out of London on 23rd July, so probably updated my logbook end of July or early August. |
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 09:51
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
As it stands it's way out of time - PCN would normally be sent to a address on V5C. What is the exact docref date on the v5C?
have you got the envelope - may say when this was posted is address correct. Given lateness and also issues they had with signage we should see this one off. |
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 11:26
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 11 Mar 2014 Member No.: 69,378 |
Haven't got the envelope, but on my new driving license with my new address on the date is 8.8.18.
Does that help? |
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 11:36
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
OP, your driving licence is irrelevant, as the council use the name and address on the V5C to send off the PCN. Whilst you say you updated licence and V5 when you moved, did you really ?We see so many people on here who update their driving licence thinking it will update their V5C; it doesn't ! Driver licences and vehicle registration are two separate operations in DVLA, and so far the two seem to have a Maginot-like barrier between them. We all hope that DVLA see some sense, and update their software to check both data bases when either a V5C or a driver licence is updated, and output a warning message, or even, (nirvana !!), allow a user to make one report of address change and get licence and V5Cl updated in one go. At the moment the VED registration operation is in the Dark Ages, and you have to send off a piece of paper.
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 11:51
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Look at your V5C - check the address. Look at any of these sections - 8, 9, 10, 11 - they all have a document ref no. with a date on the right of the number. That is the key date of change.
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 12:11
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 11 Mar 2014 Member No.: 69,378 |
Had a look at VC5 and document ref number is 14.08.18
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 13:03
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
Had a look at VC5 and document ref number is 14.08.18 OK, so it looks like your V5C update was being processed around the time they requested your name and address details from the DVLA. Date of the PCN is 8th August, and they probably obtained your details the day before, or even before that. What may have happened here that the original PCN went to your old address, and the person living there sent it back and also told them your name and address. They then issued new PCN to you at your new address, (as you say the address on the PCN is correct). How it has taken so long to get to you is obviously a mystery. The PCN is supposed to be posted on the date of the PCN (8th November). What you need to do now is submit reps stating that you have only just received the PCN and therefore have had no opportunity to pay at the discounted rate, and also whatever you want to say about the alleged contravention. You haven't mentioned anything about this |
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 13:48
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 11 Mar 2014 Member No.: 69,378 |
Isn't the date of PCN 19th July? Also the people living in my old address would not know my name or new address as it was a rental..
In terms of the contravention, I have been making that turn every day for work for 5 years and I know they change the restrictions, but I do not recall seeing any signage to say you can't turn down Richmond Road. I have had a look and their seems to be a lot of people with similar problems. Not sure what the best route to take is. |
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 14:15
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
I have been making that turn every day for work for 5 years and I know they change the restrictions, but I do not recall seeing any signage to say you can't turn down Richmond Road. So did you take this turn on other days at the times the restriction operates? I'm concerned you may have a lot of other PCNs in the pipeline. |
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 14:32
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 11 Mar 2014 Member No.: 69,378 |
Possibly.. It's hard to know. When did they change the restrictions?
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 15:12
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 16:28
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
If this PCN has been sent to your current address, then on the face of it, it is well out-of-time, so you should submit reps on this basis, and not pay until they explain why they have taken 3 months to issue it.
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Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 16:37
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#15
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
OP----- despite the apparent OOT PCN I would still consider the validity of the contravention.
As already suggested, contraventions about that time have won at appeal because of poor signage. If you look at the ETA website here:- https://londontribunals.org.uk and browse the last 3 or 4 days of cases you will find at least two Mare Street appeals which were successful. Mick |
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Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 20:20
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 11 Mar 2014 Member No.: 69,378 |
Thanks for all the advice. I need to make reps by Friday. I can do this online through the Hackney website. Think i’ll Go with the OOT. How should I phrase this in my response?
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Wed, 5 Dec 2018 - 14:36
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Thanks for all the advice. I need to make reps by Friday. I can do this online through the Hackney website. Think i’ll Go with the OOT. How should I phrase this in my response? Look at ground 1 here: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1411505 Make sure you change the dates to match your case, don't just copy/paste it. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 12:55
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 11 Mar 2014 Member No.: 69,378 |
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Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 13:28
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
There is no mechanism for them to issue a PCN to a RK at an address supplied by bailiffs rather than the DVLA They have not followed procedure but have attempted to circumvent it.
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 13:57
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I think you have a strong case, their explanation for the late PCN doesn't really hold water (the PCN was issued after the DVLA records were updated, and who the heck are the debt recovery team and why did they get involved??), you've also got the fact that the PCN doesn't specify what sort of prohibited turn it is (u-turn, right-turn or left-turn) and the location is somewhat vague.
Register your appeal with the tribunal and in the grounds box just write "detailed grounds to follow", once the tribunal gives you a deadline for you to submit your grounds let us know what the deadline is and I'll write the appeal for you. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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