PCN Cheshire East Code 1 Single Yellow Options

[Brokenwire]

Got this ticket today. I was parked in a cul de sac with parking bays and a single yellow in front of a closed down shop.
There has never been any restrictions placed on the single yellow, as it was there to allow you to use the shops in the parade.

Ticket is labelled for the wrong street, other side of the junction, but I guess this is of little use.

The signage stating that you are entering a controlled zone is very hard to find and I have driven past it several times without seeing it as it is immediately under a very low railway bridge. More important signage is in front of the bridge and this is where the control zone sign should also be.

There are no signs on the posts within 200m stating restriction or waiting times. The control zone entr sign simply has Mon-Sat 8-6. I was parked this afternoon for 20 minutes whilst at the doctors nearby.

Any advice on appealing this very welcome. I feel that as no signs about restrictions are posted, the street is incorrect and the entrance sign is difficlut to see, I have grounds to appeal.

Happy to pay the 35 if I am wrong but I do believe the details are wrong.

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[cp8759]

PCNs don't get "struck", they get cancelled, so amend references to the PCN being "struck".

I'm not convinced your argument re: the CPZ sign has legs, once you've passed the bridge the CPZ sign is right there to be seen and there's no reason why you would miss it.

Can't really say anything about the CEO photos as you've not shown us? Post them up.

[Brokenwire]

Hi photo uploaded. I don't dispute where my car was parked and my photo is identical to theirs. The photo of the signage though has a different stamp and size.
I'll change the wording as advised for the signage, perhaps remove it completely.

[cp8759]

I'm sure the CEO took more than 1 photo? You won't have space to upload them all on here so use an external site like imgur.com or imgbb.com

Personally I would drop the wording about the signage.

[Brokenwire]

Thanks I've uploaded the pics here...Pics

Edited letter is now:

I am challenging this PCN under the following:

1) There has been a procedural impropriety by the enforcement authority.

The PCN states I was parked on Waters Green.
This is incorrect. I was parked on Gas Road, opposite the Gas Road Car Park.
Waters Green is a separate area, and includes Waters Green Car Park.

For further clarification, the address of the Travelodge Hotel that I was parked near to is:“Castle House, Gas Road,
Macclesfield, SK11 6JS, United Kingdom
Sat nav postcode: SK11 6JS”

This is taken directly from the company’s own website and would make sense as it is also opposite Gas Road Car Park.
A direct enquiry to Ordanance Survey also supports this as does Google Mapping – extract enclosed.
While individual CEO may wish to rename roads, it does not change the fundamental fact that I was not parked on Waters Green. As such I ask for the ticket to be cancelled.

Please see the supporting photographs and maps to support this.

I offer further argument to cancel this ticket:

2) That evidence supplied by the CEO camera is contradictory.

Photographic evidence provided by the CEO of the signage has a different time/date to that of the PCN. As such, that signage may not have existed in that position on the time of the alleged offence.

This is supported by evidence provided by email by CEC Parking on July 18 2019. Please see attached. Again as evidence of correct signage cannot be inferred from a photo at a different time or date I look forward to you advising that this PCN has been cancelled as requested.


This post has been edited by Brokenwire: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 14:43

[PASTMYBEST]

parked across DK here

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.2601652,-...6384!8i8192

[Brokenwire]

Thats right.

[Brokenwire]

Any thoughts on the rest of the text of the letter, if not I'll send it off, cheers.

[cp8759]

I'd send it off.

[Brokenwire]

Representation rejected by CEC on that grounds that they are calling 5 different streets by the same name. Reply and their map attached.
Not sure how I can continue to appeal if their argument is that they can call the streets whatever they like.
Any ideas?

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[cp8759]

Well the Ordnance Survey, which is widely recognised as authoritative by courts and tribunals, clearly identifies the road as Gas Road:



On the other hand the rather low resolution map from the council doesn't show any name at all, so it is hardly evidence of the fact that the road is not called Gas Road. On the contrary, it doesn't really show anything at all.

I've checked the TRO database and the Cheshire East Borough Council (Off-Street Parking Places) (Consolidated) Order 2015 https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...20East/GA40.pdf identifies the relevant car park as "Gas Road", this was updated by the Cheshire East Borough Council (Off Street Parking Places)(Consolidated) Order 2015 (Variation No. 5) Order 2019 https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...-Order-2019.pdf which also makes reference to the car park as "Gas Road". If the road is not Gas Road, why is a TRO from February 2019 still referring to it as Gas Road?

Anyway, I've asked for the plans that accompany the Cheshire County Council (Prohibition And Restriction Of Waiting And Street Parking Places) (Borough Of Macclesfield) (Consolidation) Order 2009, as we know they base their maps on the Ordnance Survey, they will provide a useful smoking gun.

Street names don't change on the whim of a council official, if the street name has been changed there should be hard evidence. I would carry on and wait for the Notice to Owner. In the meantime post the rejection letter in full, just redact your name and address and leave everything else in (all sides of all pages).

[PASTMYBEST]

I'm guessing that Cheshire east or Macclesfield would need an order similar to this to change the street name ,

https://www.chelmsford.gov.uk/_resources/as...l/0/3007552.pdf

[Brokenwire]

Thanks I tend to agree that they can’t randomly change names. Otherwise all parking tickets in the area would simply read Macclesfield. Thenregion might be referred to as Waters Green but it doesn’t remove the need for actual street names .

[Brokenwire]

All parts of the reply uploaded now. I'm happy to take it further but how much more do I have to pay if I lose?

I don't see how they can simply remove road name and that makes it correct so I'd like to see what the adjudicator says. Obviously the council were alway going to support their own point fo view. I phoned Ordnance Survey and had them check. They explained about how it all worked which was a bit complex, but said they haven't changed the road name and the council hasn't applied to.

This post has been edited by Brokenwire: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 - 09:22

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[cp8759]

Well if the council wants to substantiate its assertion that Gas Road has been renamed, it will need to come up with the relevant order under section 18 of the Public Health Act 1925 to prove the road has been renamed. My guess is there's no such order.

For now register the appeal with the tribunal website and just write "detailed grounds to follow" in the reasons box, this will force the council to submit its evidence first. Providing you don't miss any deadlines, the penalty cannot increase above £70 so you have nothing to lose in taking it further.

[Brokenwire]

So I have registered and put in details to follow.

Received this today...
"Your appeal has been registered and the authority has confirmed the details.

What happens next?
They will now decide whether to contest your appeal.

How long will this take?
We have asked them to do this within 14 days.

What happens if the authority decides not to contest the appeal?
If the authority decides not to contest your appeal you will be notified that you have won the appeal and have nothing to pay.

What happens if the authority decides to contest the appeal?
If the authority contests your appeal they will then upload any evidence into your case file. We will send you an email if this happens and you will be able to log on, view their evidence and comment on it. You will also be able to ask for a telephone hearing if you wish."

So are we waiting for them to upload their evidence before upload ours?

[cp8759]

So are we waiting for them to upload their evidence before upload ours?

Correct.

[Brokenwire]

Council have posted up their evidence on the tribunal site. From a quick look, other than a document listing the processes they have gone through, there does not appear to be anything else posted up.

It does not include any order to change the name of the road, but does include their assertion of 5 separate roads, all delineated by junctions, as being called Waters Green, this regardless off the fact that all have different street names.

The fact that the council have ignored this, does not change that I think they ahve made a mistake.

Any suggestions as to how to upload or display their evidence pack?

[cp8759]

Any suggestions as to how to upload or display their evidence pack?

Dropbox, google drive, one drive, any similar site

[cp8759]

Here are the maps that go along with the order: http://bit.ly/32TCmu9

The relevant map is on page 3 of Macc C & Hurdsfield 4.pdf and at the top of the road it clearly says "Gas Road"

Any luck sharing the council's evidence?

[Brokenwire]

Thanks for the info so far. I'm afraid life and work, or lack of it caught up and for the last two weeks I have been unable to devaote any time to it. I've uploaded my evidence from my first appeal and aded your comments as well as maps from different sources showing the name as we know it.

The logical argument is that if they are not going to put the street name on a ticket, but a name they have given to a selection of streets, how much does that expand, until they simply write the name of the town on any parking ticket?

legally speaking I can find no evidence that they have applied to change the name of the road.