PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

OOT declaration form refused - Legal Advice needed, TEC refused OOT
VPMG
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:20
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: 29 Apr 2018
Member No.: 97,743



Hi,

I filled in an OOT declaration regarding a parking ticket, last month. However, the information I put on this form was wrong (because I've mistaken the case with another PCN I had, which I also didn't know about (never received any letters from the Council at all, due to V5C address not updated)).

For this reason, TEC has refused my application.
In the letter TEC sent me, they say that I should look for legal advice before contacting them and that I should fill in an N244 form.

Can you please recommend me someone that I can contact to help me to fill in the forms that I need?


Many thanks for your help.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
3 Pages V  < 1 2 3  
Start new topic
Replies (40 - 53)
Advertisement
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:20
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
VPMG
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 20:57
Post #41


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: 29 Apr 2018
Member No.: 97,743



Good evening everyone,

I'm struggling to take a decision.

Please, let me know what you think it is the best next move?

option 1) write a letter to Lambeth and send all the evidence and request them to cancel the PCN;

Option 2) Fill in an N244 and pay 100£.


Is there anyone that you would recommend to help me to draft either the letter or the N244 please?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 22:54
Post #42


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (VPMG @ Tue, 29 May 2018 - 21:57) *
Good evening everyone,

I'm struggling to take a decision.

Please, let me know what you think it is the best next move?

option 1) write a letter to Lambeth and send all the evidence and request them to cancel the PCN;

Option 2) Fill in an N244 and pay 100£.

Well, on that choice you previously said this -
QUOTE (VPMG @ Thu, 24 May 2018 - 23:29) *
- I am now left with the option of filling in a N244 form, or as suggested by BA, write to lambeth for them to cancel the PCN based on the fact that I paid my parking,

Firstly, if that was BA's suggestion, does that mean they didn't recommend N244 ?

Secondly, writing to Lambeth, in those terms, is pointless imo. The contravention and you 'believing' you have a case because you
paid to park IS NOT the current, immediate issue.
The urgent issue is > should the TEC Court Officer have refused your OOT and were they wrong.
You can only address that by filing N244.

HCA seems to think you should and I'm 50/50. I'm only 50/50 not that I think HCA is wrong; he's not and made some good points.
It's because here we are, 2 or 3 days late and you haven't started drafting and, sorry to be harsh, I saw this coming.

Didn't HCA give you the basis of a statement in a previous post?

Have you actually got the form yet?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
VPMG
post Wed, 30 May 2018 - 07:55
Post #43


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: 29 Apr 2018
Member No.: 97,743



QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 29 May 2018 - 23:54) *
Firstly, if that was BA's suggestion, does that mean they didn't recommend N244 ?

BA believes that I could have a chance writing directly to Lambeth, and that it does not cost anything to do so. But I do not know how I would write a convincing letter.
In contrast, BA believes that the N244 could easily fail and I would have wasted a £100.

Regarding the draft for the N244, I do not know what to put in Section 3, 4 and 9. Could you please guide me for these?
Please find the draft for Section 10 below (I am missing a paragraph to justify submitting this N244 late):

The facts are that, despite having received and responded to initial representations from someone whom, prior to issuing subsequent statutory notices, they knew to be the registered keeper, the authority issued none of the statutory notices to that address but instead used the DVLA registered keeper's address which it was clear to them was incorrect. Unfortunately, I did not receive any of the correspondence from the council as I had moved before the contravention.

With regards to the address details at DVLA, I would be grateful if the Traffic Enforcement Centre and London Borough of Lambeth Council would take into consideration the following:

I arrived in the UK in 2013 and in November 2014, I purchased my car. This is the only car that I have ever owned. I also have a European driving licence. When I moved from my previous address, I telephoned DVLA to provide my new contact details for direct debit purposes. I was not advised that I needed to return my V5C (Log Book). I spoke with DVLA again earlier this month, the operator informed me that although they have a record of my new address, I needed to return my V5C. I was genuinely unaware that I needed to do this. I have rectified this mistake and the V5C (Log Book) has been sent to DVLA for amendment.

I accept that my DVLA info was not up to date immediately after I moved but, nonetheless, this was plain to the authority who made no mention of this whatsoever in their objection to me filing an out of time witness statement.

As regards their submission to the court which repeatedly refers to them issuing notices to the respondent, the authority knew that none was addressed as per the initial representations and therefore were in all probability, and in reality, not served.

The court officer was kept in the dark regarding this issue and therefore was likely to believe that I received the notices but chose to ignore them. Nothing could be further from the truth. I did not receive any of the authority's statutory notices and therefore I respectfully request that the decision of the court officer, which was impaired by virtue of the authority's disingenuity, should be reversed and that I be permitted to submit a witness statement out of time.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Wed, 30 May 2018 - 09:57
Post #44


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



I don't have time to think about it much; too busy.
But you've basically used HCA's suggested draft, which makes sense.


QUOTE (VPMG @ Wed, 30 May 2018 - 08:55) *
Regarding the draft for the N244, I do not know what to put in Section 3, 4 and 9. Could you please guide me for these?

First, what have you put in sections above that?

--

Box 3/.
To revoke the Order of the Court Officer which refused my application to file a Witness Statement outside the normally permitted time.

AND
This is where you explain why you are late.
In addition to your suggestion of 'seeking legal advice' I suggest you highlight you are only a few days late,
mention that you found the process difficult to understand and the time taken to collate relevant facts.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
VPMG
post Wed, 30 May 2018 - 23:20
Post #45


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: 29 Apr 2018
Member No.: 97,743



Good evening Neil B, Thank you for your last input earlier today. I have to compile all the information I have and have drafted the following attached documents:

- N244 Application form
[attachment=55594:N244_DRAFT1.pdf]

- Witness Statement
[attachment=55595:N244_Wit...nt_page1.JPG][attachment=55596:N244_Wit...nt_page2.
JPG]

- Draft Order
[attachment=55597:N244_DraftOrder.JPG]

I just have a few questions regarding this application, if you could assist with these I would be grateful:

- Is the "Claim number" the PCN number? On the court service order letter, attachment G and H in my previous post, TEC added an extra 0 to the PCN number... Is this an actual mistake or is this the claim number?

- I read that I should attach a Witness Statement, a Draft Defence and a Draft order together with the N244 form. Is this correct?

- In the witness statement I make reference to the 13.3 CPR. Is this the correct one for this case?

- Do I need to fill in a "Defence Draft" even if I am not requesting a hearing on my N244? If yes, can I simply use most of the info from my Witness Statement to make my Defence Draft.

- Section 10, Is the "statement of case" the same as defence draft?


Thank you so much for your help and support through this.

This post has been edited by VPMG: Thu, 31 May 2018 - 22:42
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 08:51
Post #46


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



I have virtually no time.
Claim is PCN number.

You are DEFENDANT

London Borough of Lambeth are CLAIMANT.

QUOTE (VPMG @ Thu, 31 May 2018 - 00:20) *
- I read that I should attach a Witness Statement, a Draft Defence and a Draft order together with the N244 form. Is this correct?
No. See below.

- In the witness statement I make reference to the 13.3 CPR. Is this the correct one for this case?
I have no idea what you are talking about.

- Do I need to fill in a "Defence Draft" even if I am not requesting a hearing on my N244? If yes, can I simply use most of the info from my Witness Statement to make my Defence Draft.

- Section 10, Is the "statement of case" the same as defence draft?


You either use a 'Witness Statement' or a 'SoT', they are the same thing. Nothing else.

For the rest -

4 = LEAVE BLANK.

5 = tick 'without a hearing'.

6 = LEAVE BLANK.

7 - 9a = LEAVE BLANK.

10 = tick as appropriate

In box = Please see attached Statement and supporting evidence.

Sign EVERY sheet sent.

--------

BUT - Check these facts with TEC.


Briefly.
I note your statement has doubled in size?

You should not be discussing the contravention or your (flawed) opinion of it. It is not relevant to
the matter at hand.

The important parts have been relegated to page two!?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
VPMG
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 21:57
Post #47


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: 29 Apr 2018
Member No.: 97,743



Good evening everyone,

Regarding my N244 application, Does anyone knows if I need to send a copy to the claimant, London Borough of Lambeth?

Thank you in advance.

Thank you very much for your time and your help Neil B.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 22:14
Post #48


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



Again, to state the obvious, ask TEC; they are the Court dealing with it.

But I'm fairly certain the answer is 'no'.
That's the beauty of N244; the Court hears you, without Council interference, unlike the initial OOT. That's what I'm told.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
VPMG
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 22:36
Post #49


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: 29 Apr 2018
Member No.: 97,743



Thank you for your reply Neil B.

QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 31 May 2018 - 23:14) *
Again, to state the obvious, ask TEC; they are the Court dealing with it.

For your information I have been calling both TEC and Citizens Advice everyday for the past 4 days and never managed to get through.
I will try again to call them tomorrow to have the confirmations I need, before I send my N244 application.

Many thanks again for your support 24/7. Very much appreciated.

This post has been edited by VPMG: Thu, 31 May 2018 - 22:38
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Thu, 31 May 2018 - 22:51
Post #50


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (VPMG @ Thu, 31 May 2018 - 23:36) *
For your information I have been calling TEC everyday for the past 4 days and never managed to get through.

It can take ages for TEC to answer but they WILL answer.
Have you considered why that is? There are thousands of people in the same position as you.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
VPMG
post Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 08:27
Post #51


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: 29 Apr 2018
Member No.: 97,743



QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 31 May 2018 - 23:51) *
It can take ages for TEC to answer but they WILL answer.
Have you considered why that is? There are thousands of people in the same position as you.

I was not complaining. I just wanted to show you that I was trying hard.

I tried again this morning and managed to get someone on the phone at TEC.
I do have to send two copies of my [application + attachments] to TEC. They will decide if they send it or not to the claimant (London Borough of Lambeth).

I am sending my application today. Fingers crossed.

Many thanks ALL for you help and support.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
VPMG
post Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 17:49
Post #52


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 32
Joined: 29 Apr 2018
Member No.: 97,743



Hello Everyone,

Not sure if anyone will read this message but I just wanted to say a HUGE thank you for all your support/ help through this situation.

My N244 has been ACCEPTED and I have received the Notice to Owner!

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 18:20
Post #53


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



Well done.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 20:20
Post #54


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,726
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



Good
Now post up the NTO and let's see if you can deal with that.

Two statements you have made that need explaining:-
That you paid for parking.... what evidence have you got ?
That in your informal challenge you gave new address as the registered keeper but council ignored.... what did you say to them, exact words please or a copy of your informal challenge?


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V  < 1 2 3
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 06:10
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here