PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Baliffs
Bikerchick71
post Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 09:56
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2019
Member No.: 102,931



Hi I’ve been pointed in your direction hoping someone can offer advice my daughter has had the baliffs at her door she didn’t answer as it was at 6.45 in the morning they put a note under her door. so she rang them they told her it was for parking tickets in a council car park Rouen Rd in Norwich (it’s the 1st she knew of this) was dating from July 2018 Her ex was the main driver at the time as she only has provisional car is in her name as he couldn’t get finance . she told them this but they were not interested they told her as she was the owner of the car it’s her responsibility to pay and they would force entry into her property to get goods to the value of £800 in a panic as she has 2 young children she paid them half borrowed the money off a friend before speaking to me. I went mad with her told her she should of called the council and explained to them who was driving (He has lots of parking tickets did not give a **** where he parked ) she still has another 400 to pay which they want by June. Have you any advice as they have really frightened her
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Start new topic
Replies (20 - 29)
Advertisement
post Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 09:56
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
hcandersen
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 10:26
Post #21


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 23,485
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



@NeilB:

The TMA defines owner as follows:

"owner”, in relation to a vehicle, means the person by whom the vehicle is kept, which in the case of a vehicle registered under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (c. 22) is presumed (unless the contrary is proved) to be the person in whose name the vehicle is registered;



Nothing to do with who has title in law, only by 'whom the vehicle is kept'.

I don't think any argument based on 'ownership' would fly.

OP's daughter, who was the registered keeper at the time and is liable, says she did not receive the NTO, Charge Cert or Order for Recovery. She cannot explain why because this is like trying to prove a negative.

She could submit forms to TEC but ultimately this would come down to the simple issue of to whom were the notices addressed? As per DD, the daughter can establish this by contacting the council direct, but data protection might require her to prove her bona fides.

If her name and correct address are on the notices then IMO that's it, she would have to pay, regrettable as this might appear.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 10:27
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 10:47
Post #22


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20,738
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



That it may come down to whether notices were properly addressed is not reason not to try.
Nor is the presumption of owner something that cannot be challenged should we get things reset.

But we need information before we can suggest any ways forward.
As Neil says, how many PCNs, he believes three and is likely right.
We need this confirmed, plus dates, plus address confirmation.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
zwekk
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 10:50
Post #23


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 105
Joined: 10 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,869



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 10:26) *
OP's daughter, who was the registered keeper at the time and is liable, says she did not receive the NTO, Charge Cert or Order for Recovery. She cannot explain why because this is like trying to prove a negative.


But if we're talking about 6 or more letters, correctly addressed, going missing, I think the finger points to the ex. Would the court interfere with an ongoing criminal investigation which included disposing her mail?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bailiff Advice
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 10:51
Post #24


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 237
Joined: 4 Apr 2016
Member No.: 83,440



QUOTE (Missy94 @ Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 23:12) *
I owned the car (its finance but I not longer own it)

How am I meant to prove it with no letters? But a letter saying removal notice?

I am not stupid to ignore parking tickets! I have put every single one into my exs name and I haven't heard anything since which was private ones but I never knew about this council one!


As you had previously received notices in relation to 'private' parking, this would indicate that the V5C (Log Book) was correctly addressed.

Unlike private parking, there would have been THREE separate notices from Norwich Council for EACH contravention. There would firstly have the Penalty Charge notice. As the contraventions appear to be for wrongful PARKING, the notice would have been affixed to the windscreen. Your ex would have know of this notice. Next would come the Charge Certificate followed by the Order for Recovery. As you ex partner was no longer in the picture after the end of January, the Order for Recovery should certainly have come to your attention. You should also have received a Notice of Enforcement from the bailiff company for EACH penalty charge notice.

What you need to do on Monday is to call Norwich Council and ask them for the exact address and postcode where notices had been sent. Next, you need to ask whether there are any other penalties outstanding and if so.....what stage of enforcement they are at. Once you have this information, please post back on the forum and you will get all the help and assistance you need to sort this out.

Bailiff Advice Online

This post has been edited by Bailiff Advice: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 10:53
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 10:53
Post #25


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 23,485
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



The presumption is who keeps, not who has title. And what can the OP prove? And as 'She no longer owns the car as I now own it, as she could no longer afford the payments after they split up .' means that she had title, otherwise she couldn't have sold it...!

Of course the OP should enquire and may submit an OOT to TEC, but I feel that they should not harbour false hopes.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 10:54
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 11:13
Post #26


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20,738
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 10:53) *
........Of course the OP should enquire and may submit an OOT to TEC, but I feel that they should not harbour false hopes.


Nor do I wish to give false hope but without information we do not know scope, timings or anything really except some supposition.


I am thinking that if anything can be evidenced of Ex interfering with post, that could tip the balance on an Out of Time.
Or could simply be seen as something the OP could and should have controlled.


On the owner side (which has no relevance at the moment but may in the future) that Ex was the normal user may tip the balance on that, there have been adjudications on similar with positive outcomes...would need to find them.
But that is for the future, at the moment is simply a line or two in the OOT (carefully worded) to show that the ex was the person responsible even if not liable.


But OP, we need information.

Do not try filling in forms without firm info and guidance from us..... Many Out of Time requests fail because they do not address the issues that they should.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 11:51
Post #27


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 23,485
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



Can you take me through this:

I have put every single one into my exs name and I haven't heard anything since which was private ones but I never knew about this council one!

What exactly do you mean? Did you receive post, open it, decide whether your ex was responsible and then reseal and send to them e.g. scrub out your name, put theirs on the envelope and post, or what?

You can see why we're struggling. Private parking charge notices are formatted to resemble council penalty charge notices, even the names are practically identical. You're saying that a raft of private ones was received by you - using exactly the same DVLA database - and yet none of the council's.

Of course anything is possible, but being possible is not the legal test applied by TEC.

I am concerned that this charge might be the least of your worries and that perhaps, as DD alluded and you must check, there might be other council-related notices in various stages of enforcement.

And just because your ex might have been driving in respect of a private ticket does not get you off the hook. The fact that you would have received any is because the process has gone past who was driving and is now holding the keeper - you - responsible.

If you get any notices addressed to you, then you must deal with them, not pass to anyone else. You are responsible unless you have it in writing that you are not.

Sorry if this makes a bad day even worse, but we must get to grips with the detail.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 11:52
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 13:33
Post #28


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20,380
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 10:47) *
As Neil says, how many PCNs, he believes three and is likely right.

100% certain:3 lower level parking PCNs.
90% certain all Norwich.

--
My question re ownership was much simpler than been debated.

Curious about a sentence in opening post.

So, in real life terms, was it >

A: Partner can't get finance so Missy buys a car instead and allows him to use it.
= Missy is both owner and RK.

B: Missy bought the car, on his behalf, through her ability to get finance. While she directly
paid the fin co, it was from money paid to her by partner.
Partner also taxed, insured and maintained.
= Missy is RK but is she the owner?


This post has been edited by Neil B: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 13:33


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 13:40
Post #29


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20,738
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 13:33) *
......….My question re ownership was much simpler than been debated.

Curious about a sentence in opening post.

So, in real life terms, was it >

A: Partner can't get finance so Missy buys a car instead and allows him to use it.
= Missy is both owner and RK.

B: Missy bought the car, on his behalf, through her ability to get finance. While she directly
paid the fin co, it was from money paid to her by partner.
Partner also taxed, insured and maintained.
= Missy is RK but is she the owner?


No matter which I would be arguing the latter or similar should it become relevant.
Which it is not
Yet.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 17:47
Post #30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20,380
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



I'd like to explain to Missy and Bikerchick what we're trying to do here (to help).
Our questions sometimes seem demanding.

That is, to establish if there is a chance we can avoid the £316 and maybe even recover
some of the £393.

Happy to explain further when we next hear from you.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Saturday, 23rd March 2019 - 15:55
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.