Parking ticket for motorcycle in Southwark |
Parking ticket for motorcycle in Southwark |
Tue, 19 Jun 2007 - 18:31
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Member No.: 12,488 |
Grr...I had the morning off today and when I got to work the two motorcycle bays on the road were both full. So I decided to park in the car parking space next to my office...when I got back, penalty notice. Apparently it's because I failed to display a valid pay and display ticket...could've fooled me, I've never seen anything indicating it's a pay and display bay. I had absolutely no idea I had to pay to park there.
Anything I can do about this? Thanks. |
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Tue, 19 Jun 2007 - 18:31
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Tue, 19 Jun 2007 - 18:37
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,312 Joined: 5 May 2007 From: ooot int sticks Member No.: 11,891 |
Post the ticket onto here removing ALL PERSONAL DETAILS reg number ticket number bar code etc, ticket may be invalid for starters and photos of bay if you can, every little bit helps.
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Tue, 19 Jun 2007 - 18:44
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Member No.: 12,488 |
Ok,
On the front, it's got the Southwark Council logo at the top...underneath it says ROAD TRAFFIC ACT 1991 (as amended), just above Penalty Charge Notice The body of it is as follows: PCN No.: S06xxxxx VRM: Wxxxxxx Make: Yamaha Colour: Red Which was left in: (street name) Date of notice: 19/06/2007 Time: 13:58 Date of Contravention: 19/06/2007 Parking attendant number 0728 who had reasonable cause to believe that the following parking contravention had occured: (06) Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket The penalty charge of £100 must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of notice. If the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by 50% to £50. Signature..... Then it has the payment slip at the bottom, details match up. On the rear... DO NOT IGNORE THIS NOTICE If payment of this Penalty Charge Notice is received within 14 days beginning with the date of the notice the reduced charge will be accepted as settlement. If payment is not paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of this notice, you will be required to pay the full amount of the charge shown on this notice. If payment is not received or not paid before the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice, a Notice to Owner will be served by the London Authority on the person appearing to be the owner of the vehicle The Notice to Owner will also describe how to make formal representations. (there are indeed three double spaces on the ticket) The rest of it is all instructions about how to pay. I'll take a photo of the bay tomorrow, and if it makes any difference, it's a hire bike. |
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Tue, 19 Jun 2007 - 20:35
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,783 Joined: 6 Jul 2006 Member No.: 6,518 |
there is no time of contravention (only a time of issue) only a date
and as we know form moses v barnet issue and contravetnion are not the same i think they have failed to descrieb the alleged contravention and have not fulifilled RTA 1991 s66 a 24 hr period is too wide and i am sure that P+D is not operating 24 hrs anyway |
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Tue, 19 Jun 2007 - 21:04
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Member No.: 12,488 |
there is no time of contravention (only a time of issue) only a date and as we know form moses v barnet issue and contravetnion are not the same i think they have failed to descrieb the alleged contravention and have not fulifilled RTA 1991 s66 a 24 hr period is too wide and i am sure that P+D is not operating 24 hrs anyway Ooh...excellent. Thanks for this. How do I go about formulating a case and formally contesting it? |
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Wed, 20 Jun 2007 - 17:17
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,312 Joined: 5 May 2007 From: ooot int sticks Member No.: 11,891 |
How do I go about formulating a case and formally contesting it? Wait until you get your NTO (which may also be flawed) from the council then send in your formal rep with nto stating non compliance with rta 1991, then wait for their rejection which they probably will, then off to npas for appeal then that is where you state your legal case ie moses v barnet. simple. keep thread informed. -------------------- Images hosted by imageshack.com
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Sun, 24 Jun 2007 - 09:31
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Member No.: 12,488 |
Wait until you get your NTO (which may also be flawed) from the council then send in your formal rep with nto stating non compliance with rta 1991, then wait for their rejection which they probably will, then off to npas for appeal then that is where you state your legal case ie moses v barnet. simple. keep thread informed. Sorry for the late reply... So I'm going to receive something else through the post? I haven't received anything from them so far. Bear in mind it's a courtesy bike arranged through a non-fault accident support company (which I crashed later on that day - not my week at all, so I have a different courtesy bike with a different reg no. now) so them getting my address will not be a straightforward process. Here are the pictures of the bay: It's RIGHT outside my office and noone ever parks there, which really pisses me off. There is this sign on a pole high above the bay, but it's so inconspicuous I'd never even noticed it until I looked for it: The meter is down the other end of the road. Hardly obvious, especially when bikes get free pay and display parking in most boroughs. This post has been edited by repiV: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 - 09:33 |
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Sun, 24 Jun 2007 - 10:07
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 806 Joined: 3 Mar 2005 From: Scotland Member No.: 2,492 |
repiV,
Is this Controlled Parking Zone? Does it have any signs like this at the entrance to any of the roads (big one, bottom left in the link) CPZ sign I can't see anywhere in your photos where you could work out time restrictions and when you would be required to pay. It might be different if there are CPZ entry signs at the entrance to the area you parked in. GS -------------------- |
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Sun, 24 Jun 2007 - 10:14
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Member No.: 12,488 |
repiV, Is this Controlled Parking Zone? Does it have any signs like this at the entrance to any of the roads (big one, bottom left in the link) CPZ sign I can't see anywhere in your photos where you could work out time restrictions and when you would be required to pay. It might be different if there are CPZ entry signs at the entrance to the area you parked in. GS I couldn't say for sure, but I have a feeling there is a Controlled Zone sign there. TBH I've never taken any conscious notice of them or their meaning, being a biker, parking is not usually a concern for me. In my neck of the woods I can park anywhere without paying anything, and at work I usually stick it in the motorcycle bays - which were full by the time I got there as I had to take the morning off to take delivery of the bike. I'll look on Monday - in any case, if there is a CPZ sign and it states time restrictions, can I use this evidence in conjunction with the fact that there is no time of contravention? Or is it not that simple? Or can I simply ignore it as the vehicle is not mine, and I only had it for a day which might make me a bit more difficult to trace? |
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Mon, 25 Jun 2007 - 19:31
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Member No.: 12,488 |
The signs say "Controlled Zone C1". 8am-6:30pm.
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Wed, 27 Jun 2007 - 11:22
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 806 Joined: 3 Mar 2005 From: Scotland Member No.: 2,492 |
But is the circle above the words Controlled Zone or below it? If the circle is above the wording I would say that the sign does not comply with:
CPZ sign Aberdeens are a mixture, with half of circles being above the wording on the sign, half having "ticket zone" above the blue circle. I'm waiting on an adjudicators ruling to tell me if all of these are illegal. Should know within the next couple of weeks. As for the fact that there is no "time of contravention" as well as "time issued", I would say this is exactly the same grounds as the 2 dates issue highlighted in loads of other cases on here. If you don't know the date of the contravention surely the time of the contravention is just as important as the two dates issue in an area where there is restrictions based on the time of the day. See what others think on the board All the best GS This post has been edited by greatscot: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 - 11:23 -------------------- |
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Fri, 29 Jun 2007 - 18:14
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Member No.: 12,488 |
But is the circle above the words Controlled Zone or below it? If the circle is above the wording I would say that the sign does not comply with: CPZ sign Aberdeens are a mixture, with half of circles being above the wording on the sign, half having "ticket zone" above the blue circle. I'm waiting on an adjudicators ruling to tell me if all of these are illegal. Should know within the next couple of weeks. Sadly, it was below. QUOTE As for the fact that there is no "time of contravention" as well as "time issued", I would say this is exactly the same grounds as the 2 dates issue highlighted in loads of other cases on here. If you don't know the date of the contravention surely the time of the contravention is just as important as the two dates issue in an area where there is restrictions based on the time of the day. See what others think on the board Just to clarify, it doesn't specify whether it's the time of issue or time of contravention. It has a separate date of issue and contravention, and then it just says "Time:"... It's set out like this: Date of Notice : 19/06/2007 Time: 13:58 Date of Contravention: 19/06/2007 Where does this leave me, do you think? My 14 day period is nearly up... :| I haven't received a Notice to Owner either, and the hire company haven't mentioned it to me. Do you think I should ask them if they've received it and what they've done with it? Seems odd not to mention it, I wonder if they pay the tickets then pass on the bill. QUOTE All the best GS Cheers. This post has been edited by repiV: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 - 18:14 |
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Fri, 29 Jun 2007 - 18:29
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,783 Joined: 6 Jul 2006 Member No.: 6,518 |
time is time of issue (its next to issue date)
contravention is a continuing act - usually states 'seen at' or 'from / until' their can be no presumptio it is time of contrevention |
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Fri, 29 Jun 2007 - 19:13
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Member No.: 12,488 |
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