Any good at Maths?, Triangulation question |
Any good at Maths?, Triangulation question |
Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 19:21
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 8,582 Joined: 9 Feb 2006 Member No.: 4,813 |
I'm a bit old to remember my maths days so would appreciate a knowledgeable answer to what should be a simple question.
I'll paint the picture so it has more meaning. I'm trying to prepare for a case where the defendant will take an A4 sign printed out on cardboard. That would make it 29.7 cm high The original sign is 59.6 cm high The distance from the driver to the original sign is 8 metres How far from the driver would the A4 sign be to keep in exact scale along the triangulation to the original sign? The idea is to show how the original sign would look at the triangulated distance by having a judge compare it to the A4 copy at the scaled distance. Get the idea? -------------------- The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 19:21
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Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 19:43
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,196 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
29.7/59.6x8=3.987 metres (4).
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 21:06
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
Surely you would be half the distance away. Ie 4mtrs.... being that the A4 sign is half the size of the original??
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 08:19
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 8,582 Joined: 9 Feb 2006 Member No.: 4,813 |
Thanks Guys. Exactly what I thought but the equation from rookie is what I was after.
Wonder what's going on? Look at my post here. -------------------- The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 10:27
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,196 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Yes I realised it was related to that post.
The one thing you have to ensure for this to work is the quality of your printed sign, poor quality printing (fuzzy edges) would negatively impact it as a valid comparison. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 11:03
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,535 Joined: 16 Jan 2009 From: Up north Member No.: 25,505 |
If this relates to the other post. You state that the signage is exactly A2 in size.
Therefore A4 is actually 1/4 the size of A2, in area and therefore the font sizes on your mockup of the signage would need to be 1/4 the height of those on the sign. So if the Main size lettering is 120mm or 338point then on a reduced mock up you would need to use 84point and if the t&c on the signage are in 60mm or 169 point then the mock up would need to be in 42point for example 72point text is 1inch tall This post has been edited by oldstoat: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 11:27 -------------------- Bridges burnt, Rubicons crossed. Parthian shots delivered, but always with style
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 15:59
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 350 Joined: 18 Mar 2015 Member No.: 76,324 |
A quarter of the area, yes, but half the length and width compared to A2. So the original answer of 4m stands, you would need a font size half that on the A2 sign, and by virtue assuming similar legibility etc, would need to be half the distance away to read it to the same degree.
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 17:15
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 8,582 Joined: 9 Feb 2006 Member No.: 4,813 |
You know I was a financial adviser once and could work out the cost of a mortgage including Mortgage Interest Relief in my head. I also studied calculus as a pastime when serving in the middle east. Age does terrible things. Anyway I worked the 4m myself but needed reassurance.
In any case I have now printed an A4 for the distance of 4m and an A5 for 2m. They really are so unreadable and I think it should be standard practice to take these things into court as evidence to show that they are just not big enough for a driver to be bound by the T & C's. -------------------- The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 18:12
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,864 Joined: 2 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,040 |
I do not believe, however, that a sign half the size is necessarily as easy to read as a sign twice the size at twice the distance. Depth perspective will play a part.
There are recommended font sizes for readability at distance. A rule of thumb used to 1" of height per 10ft of required readability. Another point is that if the sign is exoectd to be read whilst moving the effective rate of change on the half distance sign is twice that if the sign were twice as far away (ie it gets bigger twice as quickly - more complex than that though. This is part of the reason why it's a bit of an apples and pears comparison (and why signage is more difficult to read whilst moving) This post has been edited by Slapdash: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 18:36 |
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 18:49
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 19:58
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 604 Joined: 12 Oct 2009 Member No.: 32,760 |
Why wouldn't you take one at the correct size?
That's surely a simpler argument than trying to convince a judge of the maths? |
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 20:26
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
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Tue, 11 Aug 2020 - 04:31
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 8,582 Joined: 9 Feb 2006 Member No.: 4,813 |
Why wouldn't you take one at the correct size? That's surely a simpler argument than trying to convince a judge of the maths? Because it might not be possible to place it 8m (26') from the judge ? My recollection is that the chambers at Middlesbrough County Court were really small. I'd guess they would be 4 metres from the judges seat to the back wall. Don't know if he'd be happy with blue tack on the wall though. -------------------- The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 12:59
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 683 Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Member No.: 93,086 |
Would a Judge ever be persuaded to exit the chamber and look at Full size mock up of sign in the corridor? Or the car park?
I'm sure I've read in newspaper about judges and juries going to scene of crime, to aid deliberation. Same principle. |
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Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 13:21
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Would a Judge ever be persuaded to exit the chamber and look at Full size mock up of sign in the corridor? Or the car park? I'm sure I've read in newspaper about judges and juries going to scene of crime, to aid deliberation. Same principle. Yes - so long as they can be convinced that it is proportionate and helpful. Don’t forget, both parties have to attend as well. The costs of doing so start to get disproportionate for a £100-odd claim. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 15:01
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Would a Judge ever be persuaded to exit the chamber and look at Full size mock up of sign in the corridor? Or the car park? I'm sure I've read in newspaper about judges and juries going to scene of crime, to aid deliberation. Same principle. Yes - so long as they can be convinced that it is proportionate and helpful. Don’t forget, both parties have to attend as well. The costs of doing so start to get disproportionate for a £100-odd claim. If a corridor in the court building can be used, there should be no costs at all, surely? Even going to the court car park and back should only take a matter of minutes and can be dealt with by simply extending the allocation hearing time. Of course whether a judge could be persuaded to bother with any of this is a different matter. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 16:52
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Would a Judge ever be persuaded to exit the chamber and look at Full size mock up of sign in the corridor? Or the car park? I'm sure I've read in newspaper about judges and juries going to scene of crime, to aid deliberation. Same principle. Yes - so long as they can be convinced that it is proportionate and helpful. Don’t forget, both parties have to attend as well. The costs of doing so start to get disproportionate for a £100-odd claim. If a corridor in the court building can be used, there should be no costs at all, surely? Even going to the court car park and back should only take a matter of minutes and can be dealt with by simply extending the allocation hearing time. Of course whether a judge could be persuaded to bother with any of this is a different matter. I was referring to a site visit. Doing so in the near vicinity of the court shouldn’t be an issue - so long as the judge thinks it will be helpful and relevant. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Thu, 20 Aug 2020 - 11:43
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 683 Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Member No.: 93,086 |
Would a Judge ever be persuaded to exit the chamber and look at Full size mock up of sign in the corridor? Or the car park? I'm sure I've read in newspaper about judges and juries going to scene of crime, to aid deliberation. Same principle. Yes - so long as they can be convinced that it is proportionate and helpful. Don’t forget, both parties have to attend as well. The costs of doing so start to get disproportionate for a £100-odd claim. If a corridor in the court building can be used, there should be no costs at all, surely? Even going to the court car park and back should only take a matter of minutes and can be dealt with by simply extending the allocation hearing time. Of course whether a judge could be persuaded to bother with any of this is a different matter. I was referring to a site visit. Doing so in the near vicinity of the court shouldn’t be an issue - so long as the judge thinks it will be helpful and relevant. The question has been answered, but I did mean the court car park! |
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