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PCN for entering a pedestrian Zone, E17 High street
zee aze
post Tue, 23 Jun 2020 - 20:55
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Hi,

My dad went into a pedestrian zone to reverse and turn out of the road.

He went in to the zone for a few seconds just to reverse and turn out to leave and now has a £65 fine (if paid by 14 days)

Is he bang to rights on this?

Youtube vid
https://youtu.be/qWXX2VB-zWE






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post Tue, 23 Jun 2020 - 20:55
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stamfordman
post Wed, 24 Jun 2020 - 09:00
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is the location right - was it here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5829793,-0....6384!8i8192

Video looks bang to rights as dad is trying not to mow down pedestrians.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 24 Jun 2020 - 10:59
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Did he pass the signs? I could not tell


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cp8759
post Wed, 24 Jun 2020 - 18:20
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I don't think the video evidences a contravention.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 - 18:21


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zee aze
post Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 10:08
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Hi all,

I think the council made a mistake in stating the wrong location on the PCN - they've said High street/Palmerston road - but after checking it's not - it is actually Vernon road...

So yes he did reverse into the high street as there was a car in front of him to make some way to get out, but its the side road (Vernon Road) that he was actually was on.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5833718,-0....6384!8i8192


Could this be procedural issue?

This post has been edited by zee aze: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 12:33


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stamfordman
post Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 10:16
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QUOTE (zee aze @ Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 11:08) *
I think the council made a mistake in stating the wrong location on the PCN - they've said High street/Palmerston road - but after checking it's not it is actually Vernon road...



Yes I thought it could be the wrong location. How far away is this from Palmerston Road - they sometimes refer to a camera position that covers an area.
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zee aze
post Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 10:35
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Yes - I think they have taken the Camera Position here as opposed to the actual Road name - Vernon road is the next road up, roughly about 100 meters away?



This post has been edited by zee aze: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 10:36


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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 11:01
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Forget all about camera position. They say the contravention occurred at the junction of High st and Palmerston. It didn't but not at Vernon either. i think more likely Truro rd. Check the lintels on the building to the left in the video

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5836354,-0....3312!8i6656

Wrong location, no contravention


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zee aze
post Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 12:57
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Agreed - The wrong location, so, therefore, no contravention?

Not that it matters but;

1) I queried my dad over this and he believes its definitely Vernon Road that he was on that road and
2) I've followed the google maps down the high street from the Palmerston road junction and seen that the give away is the Unlock sign on the council's video - which can be seen on the left-hand side so it's definitely Vernon road.

Going forwards appealing to the council do I mention its Vernon road or do I keep the response generic?

This post has been edited by zee aze: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 13:33


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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 14:11
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no keep it generic the council are supposed to know where you were


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zee aze
post Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 16:09
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Ok Guys

I've typed up a generic response. Is this ok to send or is it too generic?

---------
Dear Council,

I am making representations on grounds of 'contravention did not occur'.
The CCTV/Camera footage evidence has claimed that the vehicle in question was on Palmerston road - which is incorrect.
Please proceed to void the ticket.
Kind Regards

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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 16:58
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QUOTE (zee aze @ Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 17:09) *
Ok Guys

I've typed up a generic response. Is this ok to send or is it too generic?

---------
Dear Council,

I am making representations on grounds of 'contravention did not occur'.
The CCTV/Camera footage evidence has claimed that the vehicle in question was on Palmerston road - which is incorrect.
Please proceed to void the ticket.
Kind Regards

----------


I think you know by now you need more than that point out that the junction of Palmerston is controlled by a box junction so it cannot be there for one thing


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zee aze
post Fri, 26 Jun 2020 - 12:09
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I'm sorry I didn't quite understand that last part of your response - the camera is there to view other contraventions?


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stamfordman
post Fri, 26 Jun 2020 - 13:16
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I think PMB is saying that you need to describe the differences between the alleged location and the actual location. However, the video isn't very clear about where it was.

Say more like this:

I am making representations on the grounds that contravention alleged did not occur at the location cited on the PCN.

According to your PCN, the location is the junction of Palmerston Road and High Street. But your CCTV evidence shows a car at a different location. You will note, for example, that at Palmerston Road and High Street there is a box junction and there is no indication of that in your video.

Anything else?
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cp8759
post Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 10:38
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Send stamfordman's draft.


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zee aze
post Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 10:59
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Thank you Guys - Appreciate the help.

will send it today


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zee aze
post Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 13:25
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Hi Guys,

I got a response from the council - looks like they disagree- Typical!

I guess we will have to pay for it.





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stamfordman
post Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 13:37
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Failure to consider - no mention at all of the location being wrong.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 14:04
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 14:37) *
Failure to consider - no mention at all of the location being wrong.


absolute travesty. The council know the location is wrong and they have no chance. I would not pay but i would be asking for costs at adjudication.


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zee aze
post Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 14:16
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wow, really?

they obviously ignored that only point in the reply, lol

why would they be so reckless in not addressing it?

This post has been edited by zee aze: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 14:17


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