PCN for entering a pedestrian Zone, E17 High street |
PCN for entering a pedestrian Zone, E17 High street |
Tue, 23 Jun 2020 - 20:55
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
Hi,
My dad went into a pedestrian zone to reverse and turn out of the road. He went in to the zone for a few seconds just to reverse and turn out to leave and now has a £65 fine (if paid by 14 days) Is he bang to rights on this? Youtube vid https://youtu.be/qWXX2VB-zWE -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Tue, 23 Jun 2020 - 20:55
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Wed, 24 Jun 2020 - 09:00
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
is the location right - was it here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5829793,-0....6384!8i8192 Video looks bang to rights as dad is trying not to mow down pedestrians. |
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Wed, 24 Jun 2020 - 10:59
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Did he pass the signs? I could not tell
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 24 Jun 2020 - 18:20
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I don't think the video evidences a contravention.
This post has been edited by cp8759: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 - 18:21 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 10:08
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
Hi all,
I think the council made a mistake in stating the wrong location on the PCN - they've said High street/Palmerston road - but after checking it's not - it is actually Vernon road... So yes he did reverse into the high street as there was a car in front of him to make some way to get out, but its the side road (Vernon Road) that he was actually was on. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5833718,-0....6384!8i8192 Could this be procedural issue? This post has been edited by zee aze: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 12:33 -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 10:16
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
I think the council made a mistake in stating the wrong location on the PCN - they've said High street/Palmerston road - but after checking it's not it is actually Vernon road... Yes I thought it could be the wrong location. How far away is this from Palmerston Road - they sometimes refer to a camera position that covers an area. |
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Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 10:35
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
Yes - I think they have taken the Camera Position here as opposed to the actual Road name - Vernon road is the next road up, roughly about 100 meters away?
This post has been edited by zee aze: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 10:36 -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 11:01
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Forget all about camera position. They say the contravention occurred at the junction of High st and Palmerston. It didn't but not at Vernon either. i think more likely Truro rd. Check the lintels on the building to the left in the video
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5836354,-0....3312!8i6656 Wrong location, no contravention -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 12:57
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
Agreed - The wrong location, so, therefore, no contravention?
Not that it matters but; 1) I queried my dad over this and he believes its definitely Vernon Road that he was on that road and 2) I've followed the google maps down the high street from the Palmerston road junction and seen that the give away is the Unlock sign on the council's video - which can be seen on the left-hand side so it's definitely Vernon road. Going forwards appealing to the council do I mention its Vernon road or do I keep the response generic? This post has been edited by zee aze: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 13:33 -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 14:11
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
no keep it generic the council are supposed to know where you were
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 16:09
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
Ok Guys
I've typed up a generic response. Is this ok to send or is it too generic? --------- Dear Council, I am making representations on grounds of 'contravention did not occur'. The CCTV/Camera footage evidence has claimed that the vehicle in question was on Palmerston road - which is incorrect. Please proceed to void the ticket. Kind Regards ---------- -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Thu, 25 Jun 2020 - 16:58
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Ok Guys I've typed up a generic response. Is this ok to send or is it too generic? --------- Dear Council, I am making representations on grounds of 'contravention did not occur'. The CCTV/Camera footage evidence has claimed that the vehicle in question was on Palmerston road - which is incorrect. Please proceed to void the ticket. Kind Regards ---------- I think you know by now you need more than that point out that the junction of Palmerston is controlled by a box junction so it cannot be there for one thing -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 26 Jun 2020 - 12:09
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
I'm sorry I didn't quite understand that last part of your response - the camera is there to view other contraventions?
-------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Fri, 26 Jun 2020 - 13:16
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
I think PMB is saying that you need to describe the differences between the alleged location and the actual location. However, the video isn't very clear about where it was.
Say more like this: I am making representations on the grounds that contravention alleged did not occur at the location cited on the PCN. According to your PCN, the location is the junction of Palmerston Road and High Street. But your CCTV evidence shows a car at a different location. You will note, for example, that at Palmerston Road and High Street there is a box junction and there is no indication of that in your video. Anything else? |
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Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 10:38
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Send stamfordman's draft.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 27 Jun 2020 - 10:59
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
Thank you Guys - Appreciate the help.
will send it today -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 13:25
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
Hi Guys,
I got a response from the council - looks like they disagree- Typical! I guess we will have to pay for it. -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 13:37
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Failure to consider - no mention at all of the location being wrong.
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Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 14:04
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Failure to consider - no mention at all of the location being wrong. absolute travesty. The council know the location is wrong and they have no chance. I would not pay but i would be asking for costs at adjudication. -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 14:16
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 24 Sep 2014 From: london Member No.: 73,201 |
wow, really?
they obviously ignored that only point in the reply, lol why would they be so reckless in not addressing it? This post has been edited by zee aze: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 14:17 -------------------- You need to fight like a cornered tiger
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