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Yellow Box PCN - Original PCN not received (Wandsworth)
The Grand Ranch
post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 16:23
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Hi Everyone, I received a Charge Certificate back in June for a PCN issued in May which I did not receive in the post.

Following advice on this forum, I waited until I received the letter from the debt collectors (Alpha) which stated that they would be passing the debt to Northampton CC. This letter arrived mid July and I've not heard anything further since.

I'm not in dispute over the original offence, I just didn't want to pay £195! However, I'm now a little concerned that I've not heard anything further and I don't really want this bill racking up in the background if they failed to send me the Order of Recovery.

Any advice or is this normal?

many thanks.
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post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 16:23
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The Grand Ranch
post Sat, 18 May 2019 - 20:49
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 17 May 2019 - 19:41) *
QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Fri, 17 May 2019 - 19:36) *
Received the order of recovery today along with the option to return the stat declaration. Original pcn was issued on the 9th of May 2018! Fortunately I put a redirect on my mail as I've since moved and sold the car! Apparently it needs to be witnessed by a commissioner of oaths before I return the form to the county court.


That's right, free at your local county court or any solicitor for a small fee. Come back here when the PCN is re set as the delay in enforcement could win on its own


Thanks, will.do.
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The Grand Ranch
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 21:15
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Regarding the stat declaration; do you need to fill in the 'My Reasons are' box? Or will ticking the 'I did not receive the notice...' be suffice?

many thanks
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Incandescent
post Wed, 22 May 2019 - 21:42
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As this is an "in-time" declaration, you don't need to fill this in, at least that is my understanding. On the other hand, for Out-of-Time declarations this part is essential.
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The Grand Ranch
post Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 19:07
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Finally got the original ticket reset - 13 months after it was originally issued!



Before I pay it...any comments?

many thanks

This post has been edited by The Grand Ranch: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 19:08
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Incandescent
post Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 20:25
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If there are no positive appeal points that an adjudicator might agree to, paying the discount is probably your best option. Only you know what those points might be. You might care to share them with us before you cough-up, but clearly you may not remember the exact circumstances after all this time.
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Neil B
post Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 20:27
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Need video and rest of the pcn.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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stamfordman
post Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 20:28
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well the delay and mess by the council should win this.

You could also post the video.
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The Grand Ranch
post Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 21:01
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 21:25) *
If there are no positive appeal points that an adjudicator might agree to, paying the discount is probably your best option. Only you know what those points might be. You might care to share them with us before you cough-up, but clearly you may not remember the exact circumstances after all this time.


There probably aren't any positive points for appeal - and no, cannot remember the circumstances!


QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 21:28) *
well the delay and mess by the council should win this.

You could also post the video.


How will the delay work in my favour? It does seem a little farcical, especially given the amount of time it's taken to get to this stage.

Oh, and how can I get the video? thanks.
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Neil B
post Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 21:08
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QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:01) *
Oh, and how can I get the video? thanks.

We don't know cos you haven't shown us the PCN.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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The Grand Ranch
post Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 21:14
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:08) *
QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:01) *
Oh, and how can I get the video? thanks.

We don't know cos you haven't shown us the PCN.


Isn't the picture I posted the PCN?
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stamfordman
post Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 21:26
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video should be on council site. If you can't download it PM me the car VRM and I'll check for it.
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Neil B
post Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 21:49
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QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:14) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:08) *
QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:01) *
Oh, and how can I get the video? thanks.

We don't know cos you haven't shown us the PCN.


Isn't the picture I posted the PCN?

ALL of it.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 11:13
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Grounds:
e)that the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

The circumstances in this case are:
An alleged contravention dated 9 May 2018;
A PCN which the authority claim was issued on **** but which was not received by the appellant;
A charge certificate issued *** which the appellant received;
Instead of an Order for Recovery the appellant received an extra-procedural letter from a firm of enforcement agents acting on behalf of the authority but with lawful authority as regards pursuing the penalty;
An Order for Recovery issued ****
The appellant's statutory declaration dated ****;
TEC's confirmation letter dated ***(OP, you've left this out, why??);
A fresh PCN dated 14 June 2019, received 15 June;
A time gap of 13 months and 1 week between the alleged contravention and service of the PCN.
A time gap of


OP, before I go on, pl fill in the gaps.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 11:28
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Answer the questions posed by HCA then have a read of this



https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...ses/Davis41.pdf


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The Grand Ranch
post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 11:33
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:49) *
QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:14) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:08) *
QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:01) *
Oh, and how can I get the video? thanks.

We don't know cos you haven't shown us the PCN.


Isn't the picture I posted the PCN?

ALL of it.


All of it is there? What is missing? my address and reg?
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 11:35
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QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 12:33) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:49) *
QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:14) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:08) *
QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:01) *
Oh, and how can I get the video? thanks.

We don't know cos you haven't shown us the PCN.


Isn't the picture I posted the PCN?

ALL of it.


All of it is there? What is missing? my address and reg?


There are normally about 4 pages we need to check they are all in order. often the small print is wrong and that can win


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The Grand Ranch
post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 11:46
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 12:13) *
Grounds:
e)that the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

The circumstances in this case are:
An alleged contravention dated 9 May 2018;
A PCN which the authority claim was issued on 18th May 2018 but which was not received by the appellant;
A charge certificate issued 29th June 2018 which the appellant received;
Instead of an Order for Recovery the appellant received an extra-procedural letter from a firm of enforcement agents acting on behalf of the authority but with lawful authority as regards pursuing the penalty;
An Order for Recovery issued **** Is this the letter that came with the stat. declaration form? If so, I sent this back with the form so don't have the exact date.
The appellant's statutory declaration dated 29th May 2019;
TEC's confirmation letter dated (OP, you've left this out, why??); Doesn't appear to be a date on this letter - it confirms when I made the stat. declaration.
A fresh PCN dated 14 June 2019, received 15 June;
A time gap of 13 months and 1 week between the alleged contravention and service of the PCN.
A time gap of


OP, before I go on, pl fill in the gaps.


Thanks for your help, let me know if you want me to post the up the TEC conformation letter.


QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 12:35) *
QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 12:33) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:49) *
QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:14) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:08) *
QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sat, 15 Jun 2019 - 22:01) *
Oh, and how can I get the video? thanks.

We don't know cos you haven't shown us the PCN.


Isn't the picture I posted the PCN?

ALL of it.


All of it is there? What is missing? my address and reg?


There are normally about 4 pages we need to check they are all in order. often the small print is wrong and that can win


The one I have been sent is 2 pages. 1st page is the one I posted, the reverse just contains details of how to make a representation. There is no info on there about a video etc.
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Neil B
post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 11:59
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QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 12:46) *
The one I have been sent is 2 pages. 1st page is the one I posted, the reverse just contains details of how to make a representation. There is no info on there about a video etc.

Oh, my apologies. How silly of me. It's reassuring to know you've checked every detail of the text against the requirements
of the applicable legislation, which, of course, you also have in front of you.

We don't ask for the fun of it!




This post has been edited by Neil B: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 12:06


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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The Grand Ranch
post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 19:50
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 12:59) *
QUOTE (The Grand Ranch @ Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 12:46) *
The one I have been sent is 2 pages. 1st page is the one I posted, the reverse just contains details of how to make a representation. There is no info on there about a video etc.

Oh, my apologies. How silly of me. It's reassuring to know you've checked every detail of the text against the requirements
of the applicable legislation, which, of course, you also have in front of you.

We don't ask for the fun of it!


OK, thanks.

Page 2 of the PCN:

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Neil B
post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 20:39
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The statement of p1 'If the PCN do not pay -----' is arguable where referring only to the '28 day period'
as only the 28 day payment period is described up to that point.

I'll leave PMB and cp8759 to consider that one

-
Still no vid.
Looked online?

This post has been edited by Neil B: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 20:40


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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